Pre-Pub Pricing (Baker Books)

That's strange. One or the other number must be a typo. Yes, pre-pub is supposed to be a discount off even the Logos "sale price" which is often lower than the SRP. Given that the SRP for the print version is $19.99 on Amazon.com (and you can get it for significantly less there), I think the "Pre-Pub Special" price must be a mistake.

Dan Pritchett? Are you reading this thread? (He'd be the one to look into this.)

You may remember that the Zondervan prepubs were also like this. Only the collections were discounted, individual books were offered on prepub at retail. Sadly, I expected to get taken for a ride by Zondervan - but I don't expect it from Baker. I do hope this is an error.

It's interesting to see publishers' approaches to electronic publishing.  The Logos blog is encouraging users to pre-order Baker products to "send a message".  I for one won't pre-order an e-book at regular hardcopy retail prices to send a different "message": it's unreasonable to expect users to pay the same amount for an e-book as a hardcopy.  I understand there is formatting work that has to be done and that there are benefits of the e-format (shelf space & searching) but e-books don't require the investment in materials and distribution and that savings should be reflected in pricing rather than in the publisher's bottom-line.  I'm sure I'm over-simplifying but in most cases I won't pay more for an e-book than I would for a hardcopy through Amazon or CBD. 

While I'm very pleased to have the Baker titles, calling them pre-pubs but at full price feels misleading. The fact they did it with Zondervan titles as well doesn't change that.

The Who’s Afraid of Postmodernism? title is about 80% higher than the same book on Kindle. (Didn't check the others.)

It appears to me that Baker's philosophy is that print edition sales are not to be sacrificed because of electronic editions. The plus is that electronic editions are becoming available much quicker than previously in publishing.

I like the availability of electronic titles so that I don't have the double expense of first buying the print edition and some time later buy the electronic edition.

ReneAtchley said:

Freedom at work I suppose...

My choosing not to sign up for them is also "Freedom at work". [:D]

GreggShelton said:

The Logos blog is encouraging users to pre-order Baker products to "send a message".  I for one won't pre-order an e-book at regular hardcopy retail prices to send a different "message": it's unreasonable to expect users to pay the same amount for an e-book as a hardcopy.

I intend to send the same "message." I will not purchase any Logos format book that is not equal to or less in prices than the already heavily discounted hard copy price. With the internet only fools pay SRP for anything, especially book and other media. If book, music and video publishers expect me to pay SRP they have another thing coming--NO SALES!!!!

It is a brave new world out there in retail. If Zondervan and Baker want to survive in it they better wake up and smell the coffee.

GreggShelton said:

in most cases I won't pay more for an e-book than I would for a hardcopy through Amazon or CBD. 

GreggShelton said:

it's unreasonable to expect users to pay the same amount for an e-book as a hardcopy.

[Y] I agree.

I don't think/like it should be listed as a pre-pub discount if it is going to be sold at regular price, especially SRP.  I'm glad Logos is gaining more licenses, but not a fan of it being at the cost of having us pay max prices for things. 

Just to give an example of how ridiculous these prices are; one of the resources has a SRP of $17.99.

Logos eBook: $17.99

Amazon Paperback: $12.23

Kindle eBook: $9.99

I like having books in my Logos library, but NOT that much.

I will NOT pay full retail for ANY book (print or Logos). NOBODY pays full retail for books these days. This is absolutely ridiculous.

Garrett Mercury said:

Terry: I fully agree.  Those kinds of comments are WAY out of line.  Obviously it was meant to inflame.  Why would anyone think this is the place for that?

Whinedell: just curious.  What are "hinch men?"

First of all it was not meant to inflame but to indicate that at the rate of current spending by the government, we'll be lucky to keep our freedom and our money. And no its not out of place just my "personal opinion", and I really don't care about false piety or political correctness.

"hinch men" are those guys who go around doing your dirty work, really crooks who are out for the intrest of the Mob boss and not the people.

Live with it [:D]

Whyndell Grizzard said:

"hinch men" are those guys who go around doing your dirty work, really crooks who are out for the intrest of the Mob boss and not the people.

I think you mean "henchmen" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henchman

Whyndell Grizzard said:

Garrett Mercury said:

Terry: I fully agree.  Those kinds of comments are WAY out of line.  Obviously it was meant to inflame.  Why would anyone think this is the place for that?

Whinedell: just curious.  What are "hinch men?"

First of all it was not meant to inflame but to indicate that at the rate of current spending by the government, we'll be lucky to keep our freedom and our money. And no its not out of place just my "personal opinion", and I really don't care about false piety or political correctness.

"hinch men" are those guys who go around doing your dirty work, really crooks who are out for the intrest of the Mob boss and not the people.

Live with it

Whyndell, you may have missed these: http://wiki.logos.com/Forum_Guidelines

Whyndell Grizzard said:

First of all it was not meant to inflame but to indicate that at the rate of current spending by the government, we'll be lucky to keep our freedom and our money. And no its not out of place just my "personal opinion", and I really don't care about false piety or political correctness.

"hinch men" are those guys who go around doing your dirty work, really crooks who are out for the intrest of the Mob boss and not the people.

Live with it

Putting a smiley face on hate speech, doesn't really work. Live with it? I would rather report it.

EDITED:

off-topic, withdrawn.

Ted Hans said:

Dan DeVilder said:

Glad Baker is coming on board.  Not glad the price is what it is.

To this i will say an Amen. I more or less said that in my previous post. Every blessings

 

Ted.

Since it is already a second publisher doing the same thing it would really be nice to hear from Logos on that matter. It must have a reason and I don't believe it is Logos "invention" (the pricing of the Zondervan and now Baker prepubs).

Part of the problem with one big gorilla, so to speak, in a market is that part of the motivation to moderate prices and maximize customer service has/is being reduced.  Examples like Microsoft, GM, and Bank of America (I think-you get the point) show how market dominance can be both a blessing and curse in an open market environment.  Constant customer support and acceptance of a given companies product vision, without regards to outside market forces, may seem beneficial to all involved at first but over time there is price to be paid.  I wonder if we will start to pay that price?

I believe we have been spoiled, that being said think about the prepub model Logos has created. We the consumers pay for all development cost to produce a title, after all costs are covered then Logos produces the title. You of course noted in the new L4 base packages many past prepubs were dumped in packages for as little as1.00 per title, that originally cost hundreds of dollars in prepub at one time. The only way Logos can offer that price is if the royalities are next to nothing that they have to pay the publishers and their costs are covered by their customers. I believe publishers only allow this kind of royalty pricing in base packages or collections.

It seems that the new Zondervan and Baker model is to push out single title's for the higher dollar amount, than to take the royalty hit by allowing lower pricing in a collection and thus make considerably less money.

I think we may need to be prepared to pay more for electronic books that are just being published, say within the last 4 years or so, and are currently on bookstore shelves.

BobbyTerhune said:

It seems that the new Zondervan and Baker model is to push out single title's for the higher dollar amount, than to take the royalty hit by allowing lower pricing in a collection and thus make considerably less money.

We really won't know what the Zondervan and Baker Books pricing model is until they start offering products in the Logos format. Will Zondervan and Baker Books sell to the public directly? Will the products show up being sold in stores and by third parties? Will we see discounted prices that indicate the margin between retail and wholesale pricing? I think we have to wait and see.

I am also not sure that we should assume the Logos pre pub prices (or future retail prices) are being strictly dictated by Zondervan or Baker Books. I suspect that Logos has some latitude in their pricing.

David,

Both Zondervan with their Pradis product and Baker with their Lobronix product have sold to bookstores and other 3rd party online sellers. Dan Prichett said that Zondervan was driving the price that is being listed on the current prepub, and that he was waiting for Zondervan's answer for how to price the product for previous Pradis customers.

As far as what the pricing model is going to be, all I can go on is the current pricing model that we have before us in the prepub pages. Baker just got through putting out a number of collections that based on discounted retail paper prices were not that great of a price break either. For instance the Baker Theology Collection is worth 250.42 in discounted paper, the prepub price is 199.99 and after prepub is 279.95.

Don't get me wrong, I will most likely pay  the price for the resources I need and can use, but I am under no false ideas about the price I'm paying compared to what it cost in paper. Books in Logos format are worth more to me and I'm willing to pay more to get that value.

David Lowther said:

BobbyTerhune said:

It seems that the new Zondervan and Baker model is to push out single title's for the higher dollar amount, than to take the royalty hit by allowing lower pricing in a collection and thus make considerably less money.

We really won't know what the Zondervan and Baker Books pricing model is until they start offering products in the Logos format. Will Zondervan and Baker Books sell to the public directly? Will the products show up being sold in stores and by third parties? Will we see discounted prices that indicate the margin between retail and wholesale pricing? I think we have to wait and see.

I am also not sure that we should assume the Logos pre pub prices (or future retail prices) are being strictly dictated by Zondervan or Baker Books. I suspect that Logos has some latitude in their pricing.

We indeed need to wait and see how Zondervan and Baker will price their products after the release (especially if they decide to also market them through other channels).

I believe that both companies are testing the market and want to see how far they can push it (offering books only at the SRP, offering books in high demand only as part of an otherwise worthless collection only designed to sell books that would not be otherwise considered). I did not purchase Baker's collections then or pre-ordered Zondervan SRP offerings (not to mention the matter of Pradis conversion/upgrade that is still not resolved) and I will buy Baker's new pre-pubs to send them a message.

Logos needs to be careful and not let the pre-pub system/concept become irrelevant (I don't know what role Logos is playing in the whole process but I doubt that they are the one setting the prices at SRP)

Not only Baker and Zondervan might frustrate Logos’ customer base that has been accustomed to getting deals through the pre-pub program and getting books cheaper than the print offerings, they could also damage the growth of the digital medium since frustrated customer are less likely to recommend their products to people in their circle of influence. The deals of the prepub system along with the convenience of the digital format were the two greatest arguments I used to “sell” Logos to potential customers.

Alain

From my perspective it is not relevant in anyway the level of difficulty that went into making, copying, producing, or offering these products to the Logos community.   IMO this is a product being offered at a price by a business whom seeks to make a profit with or without a theological veneer of Jesus's love.  If one wants to purchase these prepub offerings that is fine, but to make excuses for what maybe framed as a form of price gouging is a different matter.  The product remains of high quality and worth pursuing by those whom have their needs met.  Yet there is, in my mind, a point where the theological veneer can be a mask for profiteering by any given company.