No NEW Journals - why not?

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This post has 695 Replies | 24 Followers

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 24 2017 8:28 PM

By the way, I wanted to clarify that my willingness to pay $20-25 extra would be for each new TJL library released every year, not for the 16-20 bundle. I know the 16-20 bundle would cost more to tag, so I'd be willing to pay extra for the tagging of that bundle (if Faithlife would be able to keep with my pricing scheme above, that'd equal out to about $125 extra on top of the price of the 16-20 bundle, and I'd be willing to pay even a little more than that for the extra tagging if needed just to have 16-20 in Logos).

The original goal when Faithlife stepped outside of Galaxie and went at it alone (or at least what I got out of it) was better quality and a lower cost than Galaxie (since they could direct license the journals instead of paying Galaxie for the licenses). There was even a "TJL Upgrade Bundle" that Logos offered under this new approach, and with my dynamic pricing, I paid about $35 or $40 for the bundle (I can't remember exactly), so it did come out to be less than what Galaxie offered (although I think it was missing one or two titles that Galaxie offered which was a drawback).

In this case, if Faithlife can secure ongoing licensing with Galaxie so we're guaranteed TJL again every year, then impose a reasonable cost on top of it to add in the tagging for the journals guide section, better citations, and overall better quality, then I see it being a huge hit with all of us. I'm also willing to pay an additional cost to get 16-20 into Logos and to have those tagged and up-to-quality as well, even if it added to the price of that bundle.

I appreciate that Faithlife wants to offer us quality journals, and I know from Faithlife's business model why they tried to go it alone, and their efforts were noble. They just haven't worked at delivering up-to-date journals, and sticking with securing licensing from the journal licensing experts then putting the additional effort in tagging and produce a product that is more than what we paid in the past but still reasonable enough to get the additional quality and tagging would ensure we get the best experience overall.

The TJL journals are some of the main tools I've used in Logos and besides a base package, my single best investment I've made in Logos. I'm also most comfortable with the search engine in Logos and can perform power searches on the journals I couldn't easily replicate in other Bible platforms or the Galaxie website (it takes multiple steps for me to do what I can do in one step in Logos). It's the reason I'm willing to keep investing in TJL in Logos should Faithlife work it out to offer it again, as TJL is absolutely essential to the biblical academic research I do.

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 1908
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 25 2017 6:31 AM

Nathan Parker:
The TJL journals are some of the main tools I've used in Logos and besides a base package, my single best investment I've made in Logos

Nathan, you articulated your thoughts very well and I concur with all that you wrote

Posts 506
Bobby Terhune | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 25 2017 9:32 AM

Nathan,

Correct me if I am wrong, but from past conversations with Galaxie, my understanding was that they created all there own content and sold there cd's to Logos as well as direct to customers. Logos never licensed the content from Galaxie, and Galaxie set the price that Logos or any other reseller could charge.  

You look a the Logos pricing model for any title that requires significant tagging, and we have always paid a premium price for it. Just look at the pricing for public domain titles to illustrate my point, the money is in the tagging. Galaxie never tagged their resources to the extent now required by the Logos guide section for journals. The Westminster Theological Journal is on sale right now for 20% off and is selling for 291.00. I just don't see the pricing model you are looking for coming to pass. 

Your pricing model reminds me off past conversations on the Forums about pricing. The argument went like this, If only Logos would lower its prices they would make up the difference by all the copies they could sell. Bob P pointed out in a post, that would not work for them.

I started with Galaxie from the very beginning and like you journals were at the top of my go to resources. I would have loved for Galaxie and Logos to have worked out something, but alas it didn't happen. Logos was the lions share of Galaxie sales, and indeed journals was at the very top of Logos best sellers for as long as they sold them. 

Let's see what the future will hold, Phil Gons made a huge push for journals, but pricing kept sales from being what Logos needed to offer them every quarter. I am hopeful for this new push to reinvigorate the journals program. Lets see what they come up with for a pricing model for the future.

Posts 3937
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 25 2017 1:33 PM

I have the latest master journal bundle, and every galaxie one that was ever available for purchase and a number of others besides. They have been some of my best investments. Even with their substantial flaws when it came to citations and tagging.

How quickly we have forgotten the myriad of issues we had when we were purchasing the galaxie product.

Now it almost feels like we're the Israelites longing for a return to Egyptian slavery.

I believe Bob and the team will get it right. I just don't want them to think its an issue that we have forgotten about. The squeaky wheel often gets the grease.

Squeak squeak.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 1908
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 25 2017 3:09 PM

abondservant:
How quickly we have forgotten the myriad of issues we had when we were purchasing the galaxie product.

I did not have any issues with the product for the price.  But I do understand FL is trying to improve on what was. Just wish we could continue to get updated journals every year...and updates on the progress of things

Posts 4823
doc | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 25 2017 7:20 PM

Mark:

abondservant:
How quickly we have forgotten the myriad of issues we had when we were purchasing the galaxie product.

I did not have any issues with the product for the price.  But I do understand FL is trying to improve on what was. Just wish we could continue to get updated journals every year...and updates on the progress of things

I agree I had no issues with the Galaxie product, the first I heard of issues is when FL put it forward as their reason for going it alone and journals since then have been a major dissapointment ever since with broken promise after broken promise. 

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 25 2017 8:37 PM

A few more things I'll throw into this conversation...

1. It's likely true that the TJL content was originally produced by Galaxie (not Logos) and sold to Faithlife and other Bible software vendors, although Faithlife or Galaxie would have to confirm that as I haven't been specifically told that by either party. I know that times have changed with Faithlife reigning in more control over Logos resources (New Nelson eBible packages are no longer sold, SESB has been replaced by the GBS Bundle at Logos.com, etc.). Much of it is probably to ensure quality control, which I perfectly understand (although in some instances it has resulted in inferior collections or product offerings in terms of content offered).

2. In terms of the older TJL content produced as is from Galaxie, overall I was generally satisfied with it. My only main issue was citations weren't fully fleshed out, so I either had to go back and edit citations in documents, or if I was in a hurry and forgot to edit some of them, my professors would remind me in my grade. :-) This isn't as much of a personal issue to me anymore now that I use Nota Bene for academic writing, as I do all my citations outside of Logos in Ibidem and ensure the content is accurate in Ibidem before my citations are generated (plus I'm spending more time quality checking my papers). For others though, it's an area that certainly needed work, and I'll still appreciate any effort Faithlife puts into better citations in journals. The journals guide section is handy, especially those who are new to journals, and I've used it occasionally for quickly finding journals that match a Scripture reference I was looking for, but honestly, I got used to creating my own more complex searches in Logos with the journals that the guide section has limits for me, and and those complex searches worked even with the old TJL before any additional tagging was adding just because they were Logos resources.

3. My pricing model I proposed may or may not work. I threw it out there totally as a suggestion (nothing more). In the past, Faithlife offered me (and I purchased) a journal bundle with almost the same content as a year of TJL for about $10-15 less, so I'm judging by past experience with Faithlife when I mentioned that pricing model. I definitely understand that extensive Logos tagging costs money to do, and there's a limit on how low Faithlife can go to ensure it can tag resources and make a profit and pay the salaries of those who tag resources. I'd even be willing to pay somewhat more than the pricing model I proposed to have annual TJL resources complete with Logos tagging just to ensure I'd be guaranteed annual journals in Logos and have the additional perks of getting them in Logos. I would pay more because they are essential to my line of work. With that said, I also know there's only so high as Faithlife can charge for them where many customers aren't going to pay the "Logos tax" (can I use that term?) to have the journals in Logos. They'll go straight to Galaxie or another Bible software program and get them, even if the tagging quality or search capabilities are inferior. My pricing model was more of a rough estimate of an "I and likely most Logos customers would pay this no questions asked to get annual journals in Logos" (since Phil did ask how much are you willing to pay), and I personally would be willing to pay more. The secret to making this work is Faithlife is going to have to determine how to best offer regular journal content (annual updates are a minimum for me since I need to remain current) with enough of an extra cost to cover the quality tagging while still pricing them in a way that people are going to pay the "Logos tax" for without still jumping ship and going elsewhere. However Faithlife ends up doing it, if they can provide me annual journal updates somewhat decently priced, I'm happy and ready to fork over my credit card. I've purchased all of Faithlife's prior journal offerings, and I'm ready to purchase more.

My main goal in the message was just to say that no matter how Faithlife goes about offering this, the bridge has not been burned with Galaxie (this I know for a fact), so if Faithlife cannot pull this off going it alone, it's an option that Faithlife has on the table that isn't completely written off. However they end up offering them, if I can get current journal offerings each year, my credit card is waiting to be charged.

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 3937
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 25 2017 9:43 PM

Nathan Parker:

2. In terms of the older TJL content produced as is from Galaxie, overall I was generally satisfied with it. My only main issue was citations weren't fully fleshed out



That was my problem too. I mentioned the tagging because the journal section wouldn't work without it. Nor were the links books or quotes particularly good... A lot of that was repaired when Logos took over the journals - which I really appreciate. I too am happy to fork over the credit card for more journals. especially if it is as afordable as it has always been. But probably would even if it were more money.

I'm surprised no one else remembers all the threads from that era.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 1621
SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 26 2017 11:04 AM

abondservant:
no one else remembers all the threads

They are remembered [the tagging issues] but what else can one add to that discussion/topic?

At least we had those TJL  journal articles.

Thanks

Regards, SteveF

Posts 4823
doc | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 27 2017 1:32 AM

The Journal section in the passage guide did not exist when Galaxie was doing the journals so you can't say that was a problem back then and there are a bucket load or two of resources beyond journals that also continue to have citations not linked so its not a problem unique to journals. I would much rather have what we had back then with journals with yearly updates of a variety of journals than what FL offers now.

abondservant:

Nathan Parker:

2. In terms of the older TJL content produced as is from Galaxie, overall I was generally satisfied with it. My only main issue was citations weren't fully fleshed out



That was my problem too. I mentioned the tagging because the journal section wouldn't work without it. Nor were the links books or quotes particularly good... A lot of that was repaired when Logos took over the journals - which I really appreciate. I too am happy to fork over the credit card for more journals. especially if it is as afordable as it has always been. But probably would even if it were more money.

I'm surprised no one else remembers all the threads from that era.

Posts 3937
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 27 2017 9:50 AM

Disciple of Christ (doc):

so you can't say that was a problem back then

Re-reading my post I see where I could have spoken more clearly. However that (the idea that tagging for something that didnt exist was a problem) wasnt my intent when writing.

The new tagging wouldn't have been done by galaxie, because the lesser amount of tagging they used to do was severely lacking and Logos had to fix it for us. If they had attempted it, and I find it unlikely, it wouldn't have been complete. Thats all I meant. We did get them regularly, but they were diamonds in the rough. Absolutely invaluable, but lacking pollish.

I worked proof reading ad copy for a couple of years (which is probably a surprise based on my writing here :) :) :) ) so perhaps I notice more issues than most when I'm reading.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 943
Everett Headley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 27 2017 10:41 AM

Mike Aubrey:

We love using the journals as much you all of you do!

We're working on a new posting schedule for journals at this very moment. In the next week or two, we should have that new calendar schedule for regular posting of new journals. We also have a new update to the journal bundles coming down the pipeline.

The plan moving forward is more consistency and we definitely want to make sure that we can keep up with new issues as they come.

Frankly these are empty, unsustainable words.  Previous words like them were spoken by other Logos representatives and have come to mean nothing.

Logos has clearly not heard the clamor from those of us who want journals timely and complete.  Journals that used to be offered that are no longer (and will never, it seems) available force us to spend money at Galaxie and other software companies.

If this were a priority at Logos, it would receive the same amount of attention/PR/Communication that LogosNow receives, or the like.

Posts 19
David Bailey | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 27 2017 2:23 PM

100% Yes

Posts 589
Ted Weis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 27 2017 4:56 PM

This is disappointing and a chink in the Logos armor.

Posts 1
tiromelstore | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 28 2017 3:28 AM

I am glad I purchased  2.1 and got it for a really good sale price..

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 2 2017 3:22 PM

I have an annual subscription to Galaxie now, and so far so good. It is a cost-effective way to ensure I'm fully up-to-date on the journals. It's a little tricky to perform some of the searches I perform on the journals in Logos using the web interface instead, but once I get it down, I should still be able to do some solid searches in it. I have the URL pinned to Logos so one-click can take me to the website.

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 301
Jerry Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 10 2017 4:24 PM

Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife):

As far as new journals, we're actively working to get licenses for many of the journals and put in place an "all current and future volumes" contract. That way we can just get the newest journals up as soon as they are available.

Keep your eye out for something soon!

My eye is still out! You wrote Saturday, Feb 11, 2017 . . . today is Sunday, Sept 10, 2017 . . . fortunately, it's still the same year!

Posts 1928
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 18 2017 5:52 PM

If you search these forums, the discussion on journals goes back years now... I think my last engagement on a thread goes back to at least 2013.

With all the imperfections, there was a 'golden era' of journals... we had Galaxie and BAR.  I understand why they went away, but it was reasonably priced and consistent.  

We can't go back, but I hope that something emerges from the ashes at some point.

Posts 4716
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 24 2017 11:58 PM

Also want to see Hebrew Union College Annual (I am constantly encountering references to this journal), more Catholic Bible Quarterly, Harvard Theological Review, and Interpretation: A Journal of Bible and Theology.

Posts 6114
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 25 2017 3:43 PM

No more Journals, why not? Because Logos decided NOT to sell them anymore. From the Galaxie website:

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