No NEW Journals - why not?

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Posts 943
Everett Headley | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 25 2017 7:43 PM

DAL:

No more Journals, why not? Because Logos decided NOT to sell them anymore. From the Galaxie website:

whether or not this is the official position, it is absolutely clear that journals are not a priority at Logos.  Other tracks for business revenue seem to be where Bob wants to take his software company.  At the very least, the promises made here by Logos employees still go unfulfilled.  No mea culpa and no results.  It begs the question why with such a vocal component of Logos users wanting journals, that more products are not released to us or, AGAIN AT THE VERY LEAST, better communication is made about when and why.  I have reached out to Bob and Phil over the past few years on these issues and the reply is weak.  Perhaps it is time for both to replay again and restate the future of journals in Logos.

Posts 20
David Bailey | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 25 2017 9:37 PM

Everett Headley:

DAL:

No more Journals, why not? Because Logos decided NOT to sell them anymore. From the Galaxie website:

whether or not this is the official position, it is absolutely clear that journals are not a priority at Logos.  Other tracks for business revenue seem to be where Bob wants to take his software company.  At the very least, the promises made here by Logos employees still go unfulfilled.  No mea culpa and no results.  It begs the question why with such a vocal component of Logos users wanting journals, that more products are not released to us or, AGAIN AT THE VERY LEAST, better communication is made about when and why.  I have reached out to Bob and Phil over the past few years on these issues and the reply is weak.  Perhaps it is time for both to replay again and restate the future of journals in Logos.

The future of biblical journals is described in DAL's post. 

Posts 1811
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 25 2017 11:39 PM

Everett Headley:
it is absolutely clear that journals are not a priority at Logos.  Other tracks for business revenue seem to be where Bob wants to take his software company.  At the very least, the promises made here by Logos employees still go unfulfilled.  No mea culpa and no results.  It begs the question why with such a vocal component of Logos users wanting journals, that more products are not released to us or, AGAIN AT THE VERY LEAST, better communication is made about when and why.  I have reached out to Bob and Phil over the past few years on these issues and the reply is weak.  Perhaps it is time for both to replay again and restate the future of journals in Logos.

I'm sorry for the delay in releasing journal updates and the lack of regular communication. Our plans for quarterly updates stalled out when new collections did get funded quickly enough. Then we had some staff changes that put this work on the back burner for a while. Mike has been working on getting us caught up with recent additions, and I've asked him to provide an update. We're still committed to journals as a category. We'd like to have all the journals that we used to have in TJL, and we'll keep working until we do.

One mistake we made a couple of years ago was offering too many journals that put the upgrade cost out of reach for many people who were used to spending $50/yr. Contrary to what many people thought, we actually priced our journals below the 50 volumes for $50 rate. They were less expensive per journal, but more expensive overall since we added many new journals and several large updates to existing journals. We're changing our strategy to try to keep prices closer to what you were used to before.

We'll post back soon with more details on timing. I'm sorry for the delay.

Posts 1937
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 26 2017 4:59 AM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
I'm sorry for the delay in releasing journal updates and the lack of regular communication.

Phil, there is no excuse for this.   We have heard this line for a very long time.  FL made many mistakes in taking over the journals from Galaxie. The price problem should have been anticipated. It was very poor marketing, very poor decisions on the part of FL.  You have said in this email that there will be better communication.  I hope it is true, but I have no confidence in it.

I am glad I got the bundle you offered when you did.  You say that the large bundles were better deals.  I agree with that.  But it was not what the customer wanted. And that was made clear all along.  You could have made more money by offering $50 TJL titles and $50 for a new package of journals etc.  Except you could not do that because not all TJL titles were willing to part with Galaxie and come to Logos. I spoke with one Journal who said they would never come to Logos.  I guess the whole takeover left a bad taste with many all around.

Mistakes are made.  Recovering from them all depends on how FL responds.

Posts 301
Jerry Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 26 2017 7:29 AM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
We'll post back soon with more details on timing.

Eagerly awaiting to order!

Posts 10120
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 26 2017 8:29 AM

Mark:

I guess the whole takeover left a bad taste with many all around.

Mistakes are made.  Recovering from them all depends on how FL responds.

I'll get in trouble and repeat my point, 52 pages back. There's 2 markets (at least). One group needs updates regularly, focused, and is willing to pay bottom dollar. My group want lots of journals (academic for me), pay bottom dollar (of course), and are happy with every now and then.

Now, if Logos starts dumping choices (journals) to achieve frequency, okie dokie, but not on my nickel. Just being realistic concerning the challenge.


Posts 943
Everett Headley | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 26 2017 8:30 AM

Mark:

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
I'm sorry for the delay in releasing journal updates and the lack of regular communication.

Phil, there is no excuse for this.   We have heard this line for a very long time.  FL made many mistakes in taking over the journals from Galaxie. The price problem should have been anticipated. It was very poor marketing, very poor decisions on the part of FL.  You have said in this email that there will be better communication.  I hope it is true, but I have no confidence in it.

I am glad I got the bundle you offered when you did.  You say that the large bundles were better deals.  I agree with that.  But it was not what the customer wanted. And that was made clear all along.  You could have made more money by offering $50 TJL titles and $50 for a new package of journals etc.  Except you could not do that because not all TJL titles were willing to part with Galaxie and come to Logos. I spoke with one Journal who said they would never come to Logos.  I guess the whole takeover left a bad taste with many all around.

Mistakes are made.  Recovering from them all depends on how FL responds.

This my sentiement exactly.  I am frankly tired of the excuses and apologies.  We are talking YEARS of this.  There must be more than just words from Phil or Bob or "Mike" on this.  There should be a very public and immediate action towards restoring journals in Logos.  I have invested, as many, many others have, thousands of dollars in a company that now has dropped a major component of Christian scholarship and academia.  How is that even possible for over three years?  How is it acceptable in the CEO's mind to continue to allow this to continue on?  

Logos used to be the leader in Bible Software, nay, it was unchallenged.  That is not true anymore.  Loss of marketshare and partnering publishing houses directly affects us as end users.  Restore confidence in our minds that Logos is committed to journals in a significant way.  Show us transparency in the progress.  Update us regularly, even if it is to say: "This is still in progress and we are committed to bringing these to you."  Hold yourself accountable by giving monthly or even biweekly updates on Fridays.  Otherwise, all we have left are these grossly irregular updates when forum users email you directly.  That is a poor relationship indeed.

Posts 322
Vincent Chia | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 26 2017 9:06 AM

I started using Logos in her Libronix days for the simple objective of utilizing the journals for writing papers/research. The development from FL has been disappointing, which is an understatement, really. If FL doesn't buck up and furnish us with what we deem as essential, then it is understandable that users might be forced to invest in alternatives.

I, for one, have already started to invest in a competitor's product.

Director

Elyon Family Clinic & Surgery Pte Ltd

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Posts 321
Rene Atchley | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 26 2017 10:51 AM

Welcome to a monopoly producer in a free market...its all about the cash.

Posts 3937
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 26 2017 11:10 AM

Then we had some staff changes


This still makes me sad.

Every employee (except you Phil, and Bob) that I've communicated with at FL since I've been a customer were all sacked about the same time :/

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 222
LogosEmployee
Mike Aubrey | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 26 2017 11:41 AM

I'm sorry that I haven't been on this thread since I initially posted.

We're committed to getting back to a regular schedule for journal posting. I have a list of journals that we have already but need updates for. I have another list of journals that we do not have and want to actively pursue producing.

We want to get those updates posted for you as soon as we can.

I'll post again toward the end of the week and give another update. We appreciate your efforts to keep us accountable and that you care so much about these journals!

Posts 1937
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 26 2017 3:25 PM

Mike Aubrey:
I have a list of journals that we have already but need updates for.

Why not be more specific? 

Mike Aubrey:
I have another list of journals that we do not have and want to actively pursue producing.

Why not be more specific?

In fact, this post tells us absolutely nothing.  Does FL not have a plan?  A goal?  Anything to communicate?

I am sorry, but there is no confidence at all when it comes to FL and journals.

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 26 2017 5:20 PM

Mike Aubrey:

I'm sorry that I haven't been on this thread since I initially posted.

We're committed to getting back to a regular schedule for journal posting. I have a list of journals that we have already but need updates for. I have another list of journals that we do not have and want to actively pursue producing.

We want to get those updates posted for you as soon as we can.

I'll post again toward the end of the week and give another update. We appreciate your efforts to keep us accountable and that you care so much about these journals!

I'd also like to see the list of journals you don't have but want to produce.

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 3160
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 26 2017 5:46 PM

I hope JETS comes back

Posts 4761
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 26 2017 11:52 PM

If I pick up any of the couple of dozen books within reach, very FEW of the TJL titles will be listed in the bibliographies. On the other hand, I keep seeing the same dozen or so journals referenced AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN...

  • Vetus Testamentum
  • Novum Testamentum (Also frequently referenced is the Supplements of these)
  • Catholic Bible Quarterly
  • Harvard Theological Review
  • Interpretation: Journal of Bible and Theology
  • OLDER issues of Journal of Biblical Literature
  • Hebrew Union College Annual
  • Oxford-related journals
  • and, yes, JETS.

My point in posting, again, is that while some folks my be content with generic journals, I want journals that are being referenced by the resources I have in my library. Time and time and time again, I DON'T have these journals because the ones most quoted are not available in Logos. WHY IS THIS THE CASE? Just get them already. I am more likely to buy the journals being referenced in my library than other random journals I am only familiar with because Logos offers them. Please become relevant. Please sell what is relevant. Frankly, what I'd like to see is Logos do a database crawl and offer journals IN ORDER OF THE NUMBER OF REFERENCES MADE IN THE LOGOS CATALOG. This should be the criterion that sets the marching orders for those working on this.

Posts 4761
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 26 2017 11:58 PM

abondservant:

Every employee (except you Phil, and Bob) that I've communicated with at FL since I've been a customer were all sacked about the same time :/

Confused

Posts 4915
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 27 2017 2:06 AM

Mark:

Mike Aubrey:
I have a list of journals that we have already but need updates for.

Why not be more specific? 

Mike Aubrey:
I have another list of journals that we do not have and want to actively pursue producing.

Why not be more specific?

In fact, this post tells us absolutely nothing.  Does FL not have a plan?  A goal?  Anything to communicate?

I am sorry, but there is no confidence at all when it comes to FL and journals.

Every FL employee that has made promises about Journals no doubt has done so with total sincerity and the best intentions but despite that I have to agree with you Mark.  FL lost its way quite a few years ago.

Posts 2304
Beloved | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 27 2017 7:53 AM

Disciple of Christ (doc):
Every FL employee that has made promises about Journals no doubt has done so with total sincerity and the best intentions but despite that I have to agree with you Mark.  FL lost its way quite a few years ago.

Who moved the cheese?...Well it's no surprise it is FL who has done this. I am among the loyal customers who have invested heavily (Mercedes C300 car money) in FL and its products. 

I moved my journals fund to a competitor with a sense of bitterness and deep disappointment. But, what choice did I have with FL's doddering inaction and consistent misrepresentations.

I have held my tongue hoping to see what is the only clear message that can be sent this late in the day, action. This foul exceeds the Britannica farce as it has been as grossly mismanaged and far exceeds it in time we've been waiting for its resolution. The time for promises unfulfilled and timetables overreached is done. 

Parting with Galaxie was a gross error. And, as far as I'm concerned the only person who can put this thing right is Bob. He must see this as mission critical.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

Posts 943
Everett Headley | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 27 2017 8:06 AM

Beloved:

Parting with Galaxie was a gross error. And, as far as I'm concerned the only person who can put this thing right is Bob. He must see this as mission critical.

Exactly.  The vaguery of the comments by Mike and Phil do nothing to assuage our frustration regarding this issue.  Specifics on journals and timetables would be helpful.  Considering how much of a fiasco this is, over communication should be the standard at this point. 

Posts 10120
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 27 2017 8:39 AM

Beloved:

Parting with Galaxie was a gross error. And, as far as I'm concerned the only person who can put this thing right is Bob. He must see this as mission critical.

Bet, you're right.  Mike will put together some pre-pubs (updates, new journals). The 'little red line' will reach 50% (aka DOA). And there you go.


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