Is Logos still the best? (disappointment with Journal of Biblical Literature pre-pub turns into gripe asking this question)

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LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 25 2010 8:21 AM

Good news:

A) As we produce more content, our cost per page generally goes down. (Efficiencies of scale, etc.)

B) We've committed to even more content this year. Last year we aimed for (and got close to) 2,000 new "volumes" published. (A book is one volume; a 42 volume commentary is 42 volumes.) This year we're aiming for 4,000.

C) The pre-pub program is designed to keep us from losing money, and to keep us out of debt. We aim to break even by the time we ship, which means we don't have to borrow money in hopes of earning it back in the coming years. We earn it back when the pre-pub ships, which is much sooner. Some pre-pubs never really sell much after the initial release, and others turn into steady sales streams. As we gain more experience and historical data, we can make better predictions about what books will do what business. As a result, we're sometimes "flipping the switch" on a pre-pub when it has, say, 70% commitment, because we can predict that it will continue to get orders and sell into the future.

This lets us smooth out the production stream. We always prefer doing titles at 100% commitment, but because of varying sizes, different skills available on the team, etc. we sometimes have gaps. Doing books before they hit 100% smooths out the gaps and makes production more predictable for us and our partners, lowering costs per page.

Don't get me wrong -- we still need and want books to hit 100%! -- but if something makes it over 70%, there's a good chance it's going all the way, and possibly sooner than you'd predict from the graphic thermometer. (We really do want to cover costs, because borrowing money to do pre-pubs would just raise our risk and our expenses. And we need the "post-cost-recovery" sales to subsidize the software development and the rest of operations...)

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Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 25 2010 10:07 AM

Hendrik-Jan van der Wal:
There is only one module for which I envy Acc....nce users and that is the tagged Kaufmann Hebrew Mishna.

They also have Catena Aurea. I am a long term user of both applications, and I heartily recommend both. However, with the release of L4, I personally think that Logos has moved ahead.

Posts 1874
Alan Macgregor | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 25 2010 10:27 AM

Jack Caviness:
with the release of L4, I personally think that Logos has moved ahead.

You're not the only one Jack. My PhD supervisor has been a long-term Mac user and uses the Voldemort (He-who-must-not-be-named) Bible App. However, when he came back from the SBL conference where they had a demo of VBA and Logos 4, he stated that Logos clearly had the edge. In addition he noted the real enthusiasm of the person who was doing the demo. 

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 25 2010 11:43 AM

Alan Macgregor:
uses the Voldemort (He-who-must-not-be-named) Bible App.
LOL That's just too funny.

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

Posts 205
Stephen Paynter | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 26 2010 5:04 AM

Bob Pritchett:

Good news:

...

C) .... As a result, we're sometimes "flipping the switch" on a pre-pub when it has, say, 70% commitment, because we can predict that it will continue to get orders and sell into the future.

This lets us smooth out the production stream. We always prefer doing titles at 100% commitment, but because of varying sizes, different skills available on the team, etc. we sometimes have gaps. Doing books before they hit 100% smooths out the gaps and makes production more predictable for us and our partners, lowering costs per page.

This is indeed good news ... I thought I noticed something like this happen with the Themelios pre-oub, and can only hope that the Journal of Biblical Literature will soon follow suit. I'm guessing that journals have a good steady sales stream to them.

Can you give us any hints as to whether we will see any more top-notch academic journals in pre-pub soon? Is part of the problem, many of these are published with publishers that don't currently have a relationship with Logos?

 

Posts 187
Rev. D. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 26 2010 6:07 AM

Paul Knopf:

WARNING: WHAT FOLLOWS IS A GRIPE SESSION; IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE TIME OR THE TEMPERAMENT, PASS OVER THIS.

I am somewhat disappointed that the Journal of Biblical Literature is still stuck in the Pre-Pub gathering interest stage.  I was really looking forward to having JBL incorporated into my Logos library but it still hasn't happened yet.  I know there is another thread that talks about the merits of JBL in hopes of getting more interest, but still it hasn't garnered any more interest.  Now another bible program (Accordance) will be releasing the exact same set of JBL on its platform (thanks to Rick Mansfield for posting this).

I have recommended Logos for Bible software exclusively to friends/colleagues/etc. because only Logos had the plethora/breadth of resources.  Now others are catching up.  I was excited that Logos is releasing Zondervan titles, but that other bible program will be offering the exact same titles also.  Logos used to offer Westminster/John Knox titles, but no more (I know this isn't Logos' decision, but what can we do to get WJK to switch back to Logos?) 

I think all this amounts to lower pride in my Logos library.  Don't get me wrong, I enjoy using Logos and still do recommend it, but it is no longer the only program I recommend.  Does anyone feel the same way I do?

My brother, Paul:

I trust your recommendation and passion regarding this resource that I failed to even notice. I've added myself to the pre-pub list and thanks for sharing as I would have hated to miss out on this resource.

Regards,

Christina

 

 

 

 

iMac 27 inch, 3.1 GHz Core i5, 1T HD, 4 GB RAM

 

Posts 56
Paul Knopf | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 26 2010 8:59 AM

Hi Christina,

Thanks for ordering.  I believe the JBL is a work that can stand on it's own, without my recommendation.   If you would like to see a sample article from JBL, I can send one to you so you can evaluate it on your own.

Peace,

Paul

Posts 1278
HJ. van der Wal | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 26 2010 9:18 AM

Jack Caviness:

 

They also have Catena Aurea. I am a long term user of both applications, and I heartily recommend both. However, with the release of L4, I personally think that Logos has moved ahead.

I still haven't lost hope that the Catena Aurea will make it into production one day.

Although I am still "on the dark side" most of the time, I also own an old Mac since 2008 (thanks to the missionary activity of a fellow elder in my church and my curiosity about the Logos 3-beta back then).  The free trial demo of that other application looks and feels much better than BW, but I still prefer Logos.

 

Posts 56
Paul Knopf | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 21 2010 12:43 PM

JBL is so tantalizingly close to going into production.  Does anyone else want to preorder JBL?  It's definitely worth it, IMHO.

Posts 1931
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 21 2010 1:43 PM

JBL is a bit like Barnes Notes on the Community Pricing Page.  They have become landmarks on the website and we would lose our way if we didn't have them as a reference point on the website... 'oh yeah... surf to this page and take a left at JBL and then straight ahead keep left of Barnes Notes.'  You see what I mean? It would be disastrous!

BTW, I have placed orders for both! :)

Posts 1674
Paul N | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 21 2010 1:52 PM

Donovan R. Palmer:

JBL is a bit like Barnes Notes on the Community Pricing Page.  They have become landmarks on the website and we would lose our way if we didn't have them as a reference point on the website... 'oh yeah... surf to this page and take a left at JBL and then straight ahead keep left of Barnes Notes.'  You see what I mean? It would be disastrous!

BTW, I have placed orders for both! :)

 ha ha, why must we do this to ourselves!!

 

Posts 184
LogosEmployee
Dan Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 21 2010 2:25 PM

Hendrik-Jan van der Wal:
my impression is that most students/ministers here in the Netherlands have never heard of either Acc....nce or Logos/SESB

I just sent a tweet to all 16,000 or so Logos followers on Twitter to drive some more sales The Journal of Biblical Literature (26 Vols.) in hopes that Hendrik will give us some good tips on how to spread the word about Logos in the Netherlands.  Big Smile

http://twitter.com/Logos/status/21778056145

Just a few more orders needed, and The Journal of Biblical Literature (26 Vols.) gets underway! http://bit.ly/cswjPV

Posts 5257
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 21 2010 2:47 PM

 

Dan Pritchett:

Hendrik-Jan van der Wal:
my impression is that most students/ministers here in the Netherlands have never heard of either Acc....nce or Logos/SESB

I just sent a tweet to all 16,000 or so Logos followers on Twitter to drive some more sales The Journal of Biblical Literature (26 Vols.) in hopes that Hendrik will give us some good tips on how to spread the word about Logos in the Netherlands.  Big Smile

http://twitter.com/Logos/status/21778056145

Just a few more orders needed, and The Journal of Biblical Literature (26 Vols.) gets underway! http://bit.ly/cswjPV

Yes

Just saw it come through via twitter Dan

 

Posts 286
Mathew Voth | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 21 2010 5:31 PM

I am very excited about this resource...can't wait for it to go through!!!!!!!!!!

Posts 1674
Paul N | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 21 2010 9:09 PM

I've been keeping an eye on the pre-pub list and am beginning to see some positive response to the tweet it seems!

Posts 1931
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 22 2010 12:27 AM

Dan Pritchett:
I just sent a tweet to all 16,000 or so Logos followers on Twitter to drive some more sales The Journal of Biblical Literature (26 Vols.) in hopes that Hendrik will give us some good tips on how to spread the word about Logos in the Netherlands.  Big Smile

Dan u da man! Can you throw a tow rope from JBL onto Barnes Notes as it rises to new heights?!? 

Posts 437
Carmen Gauvin-O'Donnell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 22 2010 5:02 AM

Well, not to put too fine a point on it, Paul... but how does people not signing up for a pre-pub have anything to do with the quality of the Logos product (which wins hands down for sheer power of search capability). After all, Logos can lead the horses to water, but it can't make then drink...

Isn't that sort of mixing apples and oranges?

Just my .02 cents worth! Smile

Posts 847
Praiser | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 22 2010 5:58 AM

Carmen Gauvin-O'Donnell:

Well, not to put too fine a point on it, Paul... but how does people not signing up for a pre-pub have anything to do with the quality of the Logos product (which wins hands down for sheer power of search capability). After all, Logos can lead the horses to water, but it can't make then drink...

Isn't that sort of mixing apples and oranges?

Just my .02 cents worth! Smile

 

EXACTLY!!!

Posts 1674
Paul N | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 22 2010 6:18 AM

Carmen Gauvin-O'Donnell:

Well, not to put too fine a point on it, Paul... but how does people not signing up for a pre-pub have anything to do with the quality of the Logos product (which wins hands down for sheer power of search capability). After all, Logos can lead the horses to water, but it can't make then drink...

Isn't that sort of mixing apples and oranges?

Just my .02 cents worth! Smile


Hmm, my post must have been misread.  I was merely stating the fact that JBL is moving up on the pre-pub list since the tweet was sent out or that the tweet is working.  I'm all for this thing making it into production!

...I'm not sure how else the post could have been taken

 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 22 2010 6:48 AM

Carmen Gauvin-O'Donnell:
Well, not to put too fine a point on it, Paul... but how does people not signing up for a pre-pub have anything to do with the quality of the Logos product (which wins hands down for sheer power of search capability).

I don't think Paul meant it that way. At least it did not sound like a "quality" complaint to me.

I see you were replying to the original poster Paul Knopf, not the more recent poster Paul. We failed to check who you were replying to. For everybody's enlightenment: You can see which person a poster is replying to by clicking on the link word "replied" between the current poster's name and date stamp in the top left of the current post panel. It helps to keep things sorted out if there are three "Amy"s, two "John"s, and four "David"s all posting in the same thread.

Carmen Gauvin-O'Donnell:
After all, Logos can lead the horses to water, but it can't make then drink...

My pastor and late friend Orville Evans used to quote the saying like this:

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink  But you can put salt in his oats!"

(I really miss that old Kansas preacher.)

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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