Logos 8 Wishlist

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This post has 494 Replies | 31 Followers

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 2 2018 5:55 PM

scooter:
How did I get to highlight the 2 words?  6 months ago, I went into Activities in a now-forgotten-which mobile Ed course.  The subject was these 2 words.  Now, they stay highlighted in all my resources, as I do not know how to cancel them.

I had that problem, myself, a while ago.

The course tool seems to remember the search until you delete it. You should be able to go back to that course, re-display the search bar, then erase the search terms.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 2 2018 11:04 PM

Hi Scooter

My guess is you created a Visual Filter for those two words which is why you see it in all resources.

To track this down, please start a new thread,

Graham

Posts 218
Joshua Tan | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 3 2018 3:30 AM

Jan Krohn:

Wild Eagle:
Phil, please take away from windows developers mouse and let them use touch screen only.

That would be devastating for every user without touchscreen.

Big Smile Then they'll have to use voice commands.

In all seriousness, in terms of accessibility requests, I'd rank this higher: https://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-7/suggestions/3360091-complete-access-for-blind-users-of-screen-reading

Posts 59
Bill | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 3 2018 5:51 PM

Graham Criddle:
'm intrigued to know whether you think the root problem relates to a "conceptual understanding" - such as what do the <> symbols mean - or to the detailed syntax that is required. Or, of course, both!

Sorry it took me this long to respond.

I think my answer to your question is both. I'm not sure I can explain it clearly.Remember, I said I barely made it out of high school. I admit my learning ability and reading comprehension are weak and getting weaker every year.

There must be a process for learning how to do these searches, not just a bunch of abbreviated definitions and random examples. When I read the information on searching in the various places like the wiki, I find the explanations and definitions too brief,incomplete or unintelligible, at least anything outside of boolean explanations.

There should be a step by step process for learning, first the symbols, as I stated before, What are they, Why are they, What do they... and then How are they used. Then how do we arrange them, What words and references can be used or not used with each symbol and in what order. I guess what I'm trying to say is, we wouldn't  ask a child just starting kindergarten to read or write a book on trigonometry, he doesn't even know the alphabet yet (okay, that's extreme). How did the developers learn this?

Does Bob and FL in general think this is a major problem? Do they have a handle on how many users struggle with this? maybe it is just a few of us. After all it seems like you and many others do very well with searching. I say this because I haven't see n many solutions offered up since Bob first posted the question. Most want to change the whole way of searching to Googles model. Google isn't that accurate but it is easy to use. I think everyone would be happy if we just knew how to ride the bicycle that has already been built. I know riding a bike just takes practice. the problem is most of us don't have the time to practice, we want a Tesla.

All I know is FL and others keep dangling this search carrot out there and I am hungry to use it but it keeps moving out of my reach. sorry, now I'm just frustrated. 

End Rant

Peace!

Posts 258
danwdoo | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 3 2018 11:14 PM

Something similar to the new timeline feature added to the latest version of Windows 10 could be really useful in Logos. Being able to instantly find what I was looking at the previous week during a session would be great.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 4 2018 12:09 AM

Hi Bill

Bill:
All I know is FL and others keep dangling this search carrot out there and I am hungry to use it but it keeps moving out of my reach. sorry, now I'm just frustrated. 

Sorry to cause frustration - but thank you for the detailed and helpful response.

Graham

Posts 352
Cynthia Tucker | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 5 2018 6:51 PM

This!!! When I'm in church, I often just go to Bible Gateway for the Scripture reading, even though I have the Logos app. It just takes too long, and this shouldn't be.

Author of the Chronological Word Truth Life Bible Series

WordTruthLifeBible.com

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 6 2018 12:53 AM

Bill:
Does Bob and FL in general think this is a major problem? Do they have a handle on how many users struggle with this?

Yes they do. It's something they think about all the time. And actually, they've made a lot of progress in this area, the most obvious one being the Bible Browser that allows users to do many complex searches without even needing to know the syntax. If you've not already checked that out, make sure you do.

Bill:
Most want to change the whole way of searching to Googles model. Google isn't that accurate but it is easy to use.

And therein lies the problem. For a lot of people using Logos, accuracy really matters and is more important than ease-of-use. That's definitely true for academics and is also true for most pastors. If Google, with all its billions can't fully solve that problem, Faithlife are going to find it difficult too.

Bill:
There should be a step by step process for learning, first the symbols, as I stated before, What are they, Why are they, What do they... and then How are they used. Then how do we arrange them, What words and references can be used or not used with each symbol and in what order.

I don't agree with you on this point, because the "symbols" often represent something fairly abstract which itself is complicated to learn and explain.

To extend your metaphor, we first don't teach children the alphabet. We teach the how to speak. Once they're able to do that, we only later teach them the alphabet. It's the same with Logos. Don't try and learn the syntax first. Trying to learn how to do searches, then later try to understand the syntax. It's much easier that way.

To help you do that, Faithlife's approach has been twofold:

  • They've documented all the searches in the help file, and on the search panel. This means, for example, that if you want to search for God's Non-Declarative Speech, you don't need to remember anything. You can just click on {Speaker <Person God>} NOT INTERSECTS {Section <Sentence ~ Declarative>} in the search help.
  • They've allowed uses to create their own 1-parameter searches from the context-menu (aka right-click menu) and information panel. So if you want to search for a greek word that's used in John 3:16 (or whatever), you could just righ click on it, and search, without needing to know the syntax is <Lemma = lbs/el/ἀγαπάω>.

I'm not arguing that is enough, or that searching is easy (and nor would Faithlife). But I am saying that Faithlife have made it relatively easy to learn by example. The vast majority of power-users on these forums will have learned the syntax that way. They've experimented, used the examples and the context menu, and built up their knowledge over a period of time. That, coupled with a few helpful pointed by FL staff on these forums, has brought me (and others) to a place where I can know construct many searches without needing the examples and documentation.

Of course, I bet there's no-one on this forum who could have created the syntax for God's non-declarative speech without consulting. There are just too many datasets with too many parameters for one person to remember them all. But what we have remembered is how to quickly get to where we need to go.

All this is to say that I'm suggesting you stop trying to learn the syntax, and start learning how to create the searches you need. If you have 30 minutes I'd encourage you to watch this video I created, which will begin to help you do that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY5WHH6ljqI 

Posts 59
Bill | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 6 2018 10:15 AM

Mark Barnes:
All this is to say that I'm suggesting you stop trying to learn the syntax, and start learning how to create the searches you need. If you have 30 minutes I'd encourage you to watch this video I created, which will begin to help you do that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY5WHH6ljqI

Mark, Thank you for responding.

Posts 6418
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 6 2018 2:11 PM

Cynthia Tucker:

This!!! When I'm in church, I often just go to Bible Gateway for the Scripture reading, even though I have the Logos app. It just takes too long, and this shouldn't be.

Download your preferred Bible and then turn the wifi off. It should make the app faster.

DAL

Posts 67
Phil Quigley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 6 2018 2:52 PM

I would like to see the ability to create visual filters based off of syntax searches. 

Posts 59
Bill | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 6 2018 3:02 PM

Mark Barnes:
If you have 30 minutes I'd encourage you to watch this video I created, which will begin to help you do that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY5WHH6ljqI 

Mark

Thank you again for responding and for the link, Although I spent 2 hours instead of 30 minutes, viewing,rewinding, repeating several times, I was able to replicate the search you constructed. I spent much of the extra time finding and fixing minor errors that I made, such as leaving out "," or a ")".

One thing that would be helpful in the software, would be if a search string/group were entered with an error in it such as I made, that it would flag that portion of the search string/group, highlighting it in red and possibly dropping down some suggested fixes. If that is possible.

I really liked your approach in the video of starting with basic search words and building one section at a time, using other Logos tools. It was very helpful.

Posts 59
Bill | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 6 2018 3:09 PM

Graham Criddle:
Sorry to cause frustration - but thank you for the detailed and helpful response.

You didn't cause my frustration Graham, I just get frustrated trying to express my thoughts clearly and understandably regarding technology.

I always appreciate your help and input, as well as everyone else in these forums.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 7 2018 12:51 AM

Bill:
One thing that would be helpful in the software, would be if a search string/group were entered with an error in it such as I made, that it would flag that portion of the search string/group, highlighting it in red and possibly dropping down some suggested fixes. If that is possible.

I completely agree.

Posts 1014
Harry Hahne | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 7 2018 1:20 AM

Phil Quigley:

I would like to see the ability to create visual filters based off of syntax searches. 

Yes! Yes

Posts 781
scooter | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 7 2018 4:54 AM

Mark Barnes:

Bill:
One thing that would be helpful in the software, would be if a search string/group were entered with an error in it such as I made, that it would flag that portion of the search string/group, highlighting it in red and possibly dropping down some suggested fixes. If that is possible.

I completely agree.

It seems to me that FL develops procedures that are more ''unlearnable'' than necessary.  What may be missing are teachers on staff that turn code procedures into human procedures, that the people who have the least ability to learn them still can learn them in a stepwise fashion.

Another factor is the size of one's rig.  Teaching material, designed by teachers, needs to be set up for people who only have Basic, + not include procedures that involve owning Gold or above, as if the learning materials one purchased doubles as marketing bumpf.

I know teachers, + they greatly vary in their ability to design daily material to meet the final course objective.  Hiring these people would necessitate the prospects proving they could develop these materials in the proper step-by-step fashion.

Posts 1014
Harry Hahne | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 7 2018 11:11 AM

Bill:
One thing that would be helpful in the software, would be if a search string/group were entered with an error in it such as I made, that it would flag that portion of the search string/group, highlighting it in red and possibly dropping down some suggested fixes. If that is possible.

Yes Error checking has been an important feature lacking in Logos since the earliest days. It would go a long ways towards helping people learn to use the software for more than a simple single word concordance..

Posts 120
David Manning | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 10 2018 11:43 AM

Logos 8 Wishlist First Post: Posted: Wed, Sep 20 2017 1:06 AM

Logos 77.0.0.0055     Monday, August 22, 2016

Is there any new status for all the Hype on Logos 8?

MacBook Pro 15" Retina 1TB Flash 2.8 Quad i7 16 GB Ram OSX 10.13.4

iMac 27"3.2 GHz Intel Core i5 - 32 GB Ram 10.13.4

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Mark Barnes:

Bill:
One thing that would be helpful in the software, would be if a search string/group were entered with an error in it such as I made, that it would flag that portion of the search string/group, highlighting it in red and possibly dropping down some suggested fixes. If that is possible.

I completely agree.

See comments at https://community.logos.com/forums/p/132647/862316.aspx#862316 and https://community.logos.com/forums/p/168322/973553.aspx#973553

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