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Posts 278
Ben | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, May 8 2010 4:57 AM

DIY logos3 toolbar,simple and easy for daily study:

 

Bibleworks 8 toolbar decrease mouse click, save  my time more easily for daily study:

Logos4 is  luxurious, take up a little time for daily study, need much more time learn software and not study:

I like logos 3 and bibleworks 8 simple and easy for my study.

2 Peter 3:18  But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 8 2010 5:34 AM

Ben,

Just a reminder; mentioning other competitors products on the forum isn't encouraged. I'm not sure that it's out right banned...but certainly Logos has said that it amounts to free advertising via search engine for competitor's products.

 

What we usually do is to use initials or other sort of code...such as B**W**8 or something.

and also...welcome to the forums brother... :)

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 1875
Alan Macgregor | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 8 2010 5:59 AM

Robert Pavich:
What we usually do is to use initials or other sort of code...such as B**W**8 or something.

Nah! I call it VBS (Voldemort=He-who-must-not-be-named Bible Software). It's much more fun that way!Wink

Every blessing

Alan

iMac Retina 5K, 27": 3.6GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9; 16GB RAM;MacOS 10.15.5; 1TB SSD; Logos 8

MacBook Air 13.3": 1.8GHz; 4GB RAM; MacOS 10.13.6; 256GB SSD; Logos 8

iPad Pro 32GB WiFi iOS 13.5.1

iPhone 8+ 64GB iOS 13.5.1

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 8 2010 6:10 AM

I can understand where you are coming from, but I have to say L4 wins the day for me. My primary reason is because I have to use the toolbar far less. Using the right click menu in L4 is much more preferred to me over the toolbar. I found that if I did not use a feature in an icon based toolbar for a while I would end up scanning the toolbar or hitting the wrong Icon. I find it much easier to remember what to do to get what I want in L4; highlight, right click, select.

Posts 2855
Forum MVP
Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 8 2010 6:54 AM

Robert Pavich:

Just a reminder; mentioning other competitors products on the forum isn't encouraged. I'm not sure that it's out right banned...but certainly Logos has said that it amounts to free advertising via search engine for competitor's products.

Bob, i am not sure in context or reading Dan contextually that was what he had in mind. And in any case that was before the rules were introduced to the forum.  Now that rules have been introduced should we not just abide by the rules rather than going back to pre rules days?

If Logos really do feel this way they should include this in the forum rules. It seems to me that promoting, linking to competitors or pointing people to other places that sell Logos-compatible products is the issue. And not just the mere mentioning of another software.

Ted.

Dan's comment http://community.logos.com/forums/p/136/4581.aspx#4581

"I love Internet marketing, SEO, SMO, and all things related to making sure as many people as possible discover Logos Bible Software and become customers for life. The move to forums can help more of our customers get information, support, and information about our software, but it also does some very important things for us in terms of search engine optimization. By creating a large body of content all related to our product and our category, we are increasing the likelihood that a relevant search on the Internet will turn up a result for our site.

In exchange for this benefit we had to expose our entire user contributed content base to the world. In the old days of newsgroups it was bad form to use our newsgroup to promote the competition, and we would from time to time chime in and suggest that it would be kinder not to use our own group as a way to enrich our competition. However, bad form as it may be it was easy to not get too upset about it because in the newsgroup there was no permanent web-based home for the links or even the comments.

In the forums, it is a totally new ballgame. A post in the forums has the potential to live forever. Exposed to searches, views, casual reading, topic threads, and most importantly—the algorithms that the search engines use to rank every site in the world. Without going into a course on SEO, link building strategies, Google PR, weight, and context relevance and anchor text optimization, let me just say that the main reason I do not like links to the competition is due to how that impacts the search engines for us and particularly for them.

Aside from the complicated SEO reasons, just think for a moment about posting about or linking to the competition in general. Here are a few analogies:

Mentioning the name of a competitor on our newsgroup and suggesting people go buy the product there is like walking into McDonalds and telling every customer that Burger King has burgers too, and they should go there sometime.

Posting a link to the competition on our newsgroup is like going into the same McDonalds and telling people you have a bus in the parking lot ready to take them to Burger King right now, and for those that can’t make the bus or who aren’t in McDonalds at that moment you have installed a moving walkway that will permanently be located at the McDonalds’ cash register which will whisk people away to Burger King instead. Right next to the moving walkway you install a billboard for Burger King just in case they don’t see the moving walkway.  Big Smile

Okay, that was a lot of fun for my own entertainment—yes, and I know at least one person reading this will be chomping at the bit to pick apart my analogy, but the point is—it is not just about mentioning that we live in a free market, it is actually finding a way to encourage our customers who are gathering in our place of business to leave our business and go elsewhere. In some cases to buy the exact same thing we are selling, and in other cases, to spend money on other things that they might have spent with us. Either way, not exactly over the top nice."

 

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 8 2010 7:33 AM
I like the L3 toolbar too but mainly because I use the Logos toolbars for my layouts. In L3 you assign text names, while in L4 you have to move your mouse around to locate them. Plus in L4 you have to be careful if you're scrolling the toolbar, not to scroll it too much which then hits the last icon (resulting in loading the wrong layout). Also L4's a bit squirrel-ly in that the layout image during the mouseover isn't specific to Logos4. So if you ALT-TAB to another software product (e.g. L3), the mouseover image comes with it (and so you patiently wait for L4 to finish up). But that's Logos4-world and so it goes.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 9 2010 5:06 AM

Ted Hans:

Bob, i am not sure in context or reading Dan contextually that was what he had in mind. And in any case that was before the rules were introduced to the forum.  Now that rules have been introduced should we not just abide by the rules rather than going back to pre rules days?

If Logos really do feel this way they should include this in the forum rules. It seems to me that promoting, linking to competitors or pointing people to other places that sell Logos-compatible products is the issue. And not just the mere mentioning of another software.

Ted,

I'm lost.

Dan ( a rep of the company) requested we don't do this. I saw a newbie who wasn't aware of the previous discussion.

I then suggested (very gently) that this is discouraged, I didn't tell him it was a forum guideline or rule. I even told him that I know he didn't do it with malice..

So the problem is?

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 2855
Forum MVP
Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 9 2010 9:32 AM

Robert Pavich:

Ted,

I'm lost.

Dan ( a rep of the company) requested we don't do this. I saw a newbie who wasn't aware of the previous discussion.

I then suggested (very gently) that this is discouraged, I didn't tell him it was a forum guideline or rule. I even told him that I know he didn't do it with malice..

So the problem is?

Bob, I didn't say there was a problem. I agree you were very gentle with the OP.

I copied Dan's post above & i am saying it context i don't think Dan is referencing the MERE mentioning of another software as you have understood it. But to promoting another software, linking & pointing others to where the can purchase Logos resources cheaper. That was the whole point Dan was responding to in that thread. Sorry if my post came across too strong.

Robert Pavich:
Dan ( a rep of the company) requested we don't do this.

Okay, where has he said thisWink?

I find Dan's  comments above to be in harmony with the Forum Guidelines http://community.logos.com/forums/t/10072.aspx.

 

Ted.

Edit

 

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 9 2010 10:10 AM

Ted Hans:

I copied Dan's post above & i am saying it context i don't think Dan is referencing the MERE mentioning of another software as you have understood it. But to promoting another software, linking & pointing others to where the can purchase Logos resources cheaper. That was the whole point Dan was responding to in that thread.

I think you'll see that he specifically addresses the "mere mention" of other software. See the bolded parts I quoted below

Ted Hans:

Sorry if my post came across too strong.

No problem brother...no harm taken

Ted Hans:
Okay, where has he said this?Wink.

 

 

Ted,

I like your style...lol.

Ok..I'll give it a shot. I'll begin by saying; Dan did not utter the words..."don't use a competitors name ever...' but I think in a round about way he did. I'll explain...  Big Smile.

 

According to Dan:

Dan:

There is no list of "rules" for the forums. I really want one. Really. Really, really, really want one. ...but I can't have it, and I have to live with that. ...and if I have to live with that, you do too... Big Smile

So even though there are no rules...he feels strongly about this particular subject...

 

He goes on:

Dan:

By creating a large body of content all related to our product and our category, we are increasing the likelihood that a relevant search on the Internet will turn up a result for our site. A post in the forums has the potential to live forever. Exposed to searches, views, casual reading, topic threads, and most importantly—the algorithms that the search engines use to rank every site in the world.

So the concern is not limited to outright links; but also since search engines are involved, then a recognizable name of a competitor's software it too. Though he uses the word links here...I don't think he's referring exclusively to URL's.

To support my understanding, let me quote this:

Dan:

Aside from the complicated SEO reasons, just think for a moment about posting about or linking to the competition in general. Here are a few analogies:

Mentioning the name of a competitor on our newsgroup and suggesting people go buy the product there is like walking into McDonalds and telling every customer that Burger King has burgers too, and they should go there sometime.

Posting a link to the competition on our newsgroup is like going into the same McDonalds and telling people you have a bus in the parking lot ready to take them to Burger King right now, and for those that can’t make the bus or who aren’t in McDonalds at that moment you have installed a moving walkway that will permanently be located at the McDonalds’ cash register which will whisk people away to Burger King instead. Right next to the moving walkway you install a billboard for Burger King just in case they don’t see the moving walkway.  Big Smile

 

So while he's being nice about it....it seems that mentioning a competitor is "not encouraged" in a strong way...

Dan:

Are there forum rules? Nope. I wish there were, but there aren’t. Does Logos own the forums and control and care deeply about what is posted there, what is edited, and what is deleted? Yes. We are trying to be as open and transparent as possible. There are all kinds of things posted on the forums that we would prefer not to have posted there,..."

 

 

So they prefer not to have competitor's names posted on the forum...(no...he never came right out and said "don't do it!! We're going to ban you!" but...I really (being serious) think that's (at least partially) the intent of his speech...))

Though, I could be wrong....

 

How did I do? Big Smile

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 2855
Forum MVP
Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 9 2010 12:17 PM

Robert Pavich:
I think you'll see that he specifically addresses the "mere mention" of other software. See the bolded parts I quoted below
Robert Pavich:
How did I do? Big Smile

Bob,Bob,Bob - a good take on things but Bob hmmmm.....

Robert Pavich:
Mentioning the name of a competitor on our newsgroup and suggesting people go buy the product there is like walking into McDonalds and telling every customer that Burger King has burgers too, and they should go there sometime.

Mention and suggesting goes hand in hand not the MERE mentioning Bob. Context please, I have seen your exegesis in the forum on the Greek language, use the same interpretive methodWink.

Robert Pavich:
There are all kinds of things posted on the forums that we would prefer not to have posted there,..."

Like, Logos are crooks, it is a rubbish software, Such and such software is better than Logos Smile etc.

Robert Pavich:
just think for a moment about posting about or linking to the competition in general.

Posting about is the key word here not the MERE mentioning of another software. Posting about- looks like something more detailed about the competitor which can be viewed as advertising

Robert Pavich:
Mentioning the name of a competitor on our newsgroup and suggesting people go buy the product there is like walking into McDonalds and telling every customer that Burger King has burgers too, and they should go there sometime.

Context please! "And" in that statement is a connecting word that explains his meaning

and
■ conjunction
1  used to connect words of the same part of speech, clauses, or sentences.
▶ connecting two identical comparatives, to emphasize a progressive change.
▶ connecting two identical words, implying great duration or great extent.
2  used to connect two numbers to indicate that they are being added together.
▶ archaic connecting two numbers, implying succession.
3  used to introduce an additional comment or interjection.
4  informal used after some verbs and before another verb to indicate intention, instead of ‘to’.

Soanes, C., & Stevenson, A. (2004). Concise Oxford English dictionary (11th ed.). Oxford: Oxford University Press.

Robert Pavich:
Though, I could be wrong....

Good brother to interact with you. Have a blessed Lord's day.

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 9 2010 1:44 PM

Ted Hans:
I have seen your exegesis in the forum on the Greek language, use the same interpretive methodWink.

Ted,

I give. If you had pointed nothing else out...this would have done me in. I'll give it some thought but I believe you are right.... :)

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 33787
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 9 2010 9:34 PM

Ted Hans:
And in any case that was before the rules were introduced to the forum.  Now that rules have been introduced should we not just abide by the rules rather than going back to pre rules days?

Is this code for Mosaic Covenant -New Covenant? Big Smile More seriously, to me it is a matter of common courtesy on all forums not a "rules" issue.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 19333
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 9 2010 9:34 PM

I'm late to this thread, but it's not merely mentioning the name of a competitor that drives search engines to steer people to their website, it is linking to them that boosts their website's ranking. The forum guidelines were written up as a summary of all past discussion on this topic. People are not expected to know or revisit the content of all threads where this has been discussed in the past. The forum guidelines (which can be found in a link on the upper right of the Forum home page) say it very succinctly:

Please do not use our forums to...promote or link to competitors.

In fact, lots of mere mention of competitors' names outside of their own website without linking to them might have the reverse effect of driving people who were looking for them to discover Logos. Not likely, because Google is pretty good at making a particular product's own site the top hit when you search for it. But mentioning their name here without a link is not going to bump their website up any higher in the hits for people just looking for bible software. If you do that search, BTW, you'll see that Logos is the #1 hit! The one who should not be named that was named accidentally above is #7! Hee hee. I don't think we need to be too worried.

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 10 2010 3:03 AM

Rosie, (and Ted for that matter)

I guess I was...w...I was...w....WRONG! (boy..that's harder than it looks...)

I guess I'll quit telling people not to say names of other unnamed software now... Embarrassed

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 2855
Forum MVP
Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 10 2010 3:20 AM

Robert Pavich:

Rosie, (and Ted for that matter)

I guess I was...w...I was...w....WRONG! (boy..that's harder than it looks...)

I guess I'll quit telling people not to say names of other unnamed software now... Embarrassed

Hey Bob, its not a matter of who was right or wrong but what is important is that we conducted this conversation in true Christian gentleman fashion.

I admire the spirit of your response. Thanks brother & oh dear, seen some typos in my comments on this thread. Too late to edit, too late to editSmile.

Every blessings.

Ted

 

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 10 2010 3:26 AM

Ted Hans:

Hey Bob, its not a matter of who was right or wrong but what is important is that we conducted this conversation in true Christian gentleman fashion.

Ted,

I know, I was just having fun...I do appreciate your demeanor also...God bless brother... :)

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 1
Kevin Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 11 2010 7:12 PM

i find it unbelievable that this conversation about using competitors has gone on this long, I came on this site to learn about the software and you guys sound like some old women, next time please respect the purpose of this site and take the conversation off line. Thank you God bless. Was that strong enough?

Posts 33787
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 11 2010 8:46 PM

Kevin SMITH:
i find it unbelievable that this conversation about using competitors has gone on this long

Welcome to the forums Kevin. Actually this thread had died in May ... until you resuscitated it. Only a few thread go astray - usually for reasons of history that are apparent only to the participants. Anyway, how can we help you?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1416
Wes Saad | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 12 2010 10:17 AM

Ben:
I like logos 3 and bibleworks 8 simple and easy for my study.

I much prefer the L4 toolbar. With L3 and BibleWorks I would have to hunt through the toolbar buttons I didn't use to find the ones I did. Much prefer the simplicity and greater customizability of L4.

Posts 1416
Wes Saad | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 12 2010 10:18 AM

hehe and I failed to notice this was an old thread, revived for a silly reason. Oh well, my preference stands. :)

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