Search for all predicate adjectives in OT. The Anderson-Forbes text would be good. Thanks

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Pat | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Jul 27 2018 4:23 PM

Could someone help me with a search to find all (Hebrew) predicate adjectives in OT. Anderson-Forbes text would be fine.

Thanks,

Rod

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2018 2:36 PM

It can only be done in a Syntax Search with Andersen-Forbes. I'm not a student of Hebrew grammar, so trust that the Direct Object holds the predicate

Dave
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Posts 53
Rod Rogers | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2018 3:20 PM

Thanks for your reply Dave. I was hoping you would look into this for me. As I understand the Hebrew predicate adjective, the noun preceding the adjective has the article (Hey) and the predicate adjective does not have the article (Hey). If both noun and adjective agree in gender, number and definiteness then it is an attributive adjective. It is the lack of the definite article that indicates the predicate adjective. I hope this helps. You may not know Hebrew but you seem to know a lot about Logos. Thanks.

Posts 53
Rod Rogers | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2018 4:35 PM

I've tried to search the Andersen-Forbes text but have yet to come up with a search that will produce hits. I'm going to read the Systematic Glossary to Andersen-Forbes and see if that will shed some light on this search. I have watched Mike Missler's videos and they helped (Got me started with the right text) but I'm still doing something wrong.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2018 4:21 AM

Rod Rogers:
I've tried to search the Andersen-Forbes text but have yet to come up with a search that will produce hits.

Supply some examples. I've  got Ex 9:24; Lev 13:43; 1 Kings 8:65

Dave
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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2018 7:05 AM

It looks like Andersen-Forbes Hebrew has a problem with adjectives.

LHB    ----> 537 results in 172 verses

<LogosMorphHeb ~ A>  BEFORE 1 CHARS <LogosMorphHeb ~ N?????>  BEFORE 2 CHARS  <LogosMorphHeb ~ J????>

BHS/WIVU  ----> 531 results in 170 verses

<WIVUMorphHeb ~ A> BEFORE 1 CHARS   <WIVUMorphHeb ~ N????>   BEFORE 2 CHARS  <WIVUMorphHeb ~ J???>

Andersen-Forbes  ---> 40 results in 19 verses

<AFMorphHeb ~ N?????H?>  BEFORE 2 CHARS   <AFMorphHeb ~ N?J?????>  

We use CHARACTER (CHARS) spacing because the article is a prefix to Hebrew words i.e. 1 CHARS before the noun. To avoid it for the adjective add 1 character for the space between noun and adjective i.e. 2 CHARS.

AF has a parameter for "definite with article", so I used that with the Noun (adjectives are part of the Noun family).

Dave
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Posts 53
Rod Rogers | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2018 1:54 PM

Here is a Morph search I did but it gives results that adjective comes before the noun and I don't want that. Any ideas? Thanks.I'm in between services today. I'll try to comment late tonight.

Posts 53
Rod Rogers | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2018 1:57 PM

I'm having trouble pasting my print screen to a post. Ugh.

Posts 53
Rod Rogers | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2018 2:02 PM

I usually get an error message when I try to send a copy of my print screen. This time I got:

Post Pending Moderation

Your post has been flagged by our spam-prevention measures, and is pending moderator approval before the post is shown. If the administrator has configured this forum to support email notifications you will receive an email when your post is either approved or denied (if you have emails enabled in your profile).

I'm not sure how I got this but I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be able to send a print screen until the powers that be allow me to do so. Sorry.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 29 2018 3:09 PM

If Morph Search, just paste the actual query as I did.

Use BEFORE to ensure the Noun comes before the adjective.

Dave
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2018 12:22 AM

Rod Rogers:
I'm not sure how I got this but I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be able to send a print screen until the powers that be allow me to do so. Sorry.

Were you using the paper clip icon? If so, what format is the shot in? jpg?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 53
Rod Rogers | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2018 6:08 AM

No, I wasn't using the paper clip. I was just trying to pasting the screen shot into the post. I'm not very good at this. Sorry. I'll try the paper clip later. I'm sure it will work. I've been watching morph videos from Logos this morning and after a few appointments this morning I'm going to try this predicate adjective search again. Thanks for your help.

Posts 53
Rod Rogers | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2018 11:42 AM

In Isaiah 7:14 I believe the word הָרָה is functioning as a predicate adjective. Most versions translate this predicate adjective as future. What I want to do is to find all, or most predicate adjectives in the Old Testament and see how they are translated. I see this as a present "is pregnant" case, but I'd like to see all the predicate adjectives and study them to see if there is agreement or disagreement between different authors and early text verses later written text. That's my premise. How to accomplish that has seemed to be more of a trial that I think it should be.

I know that there are several texts similar to Isaiah 7:14 in grammar. I'm not looking for a few texts. I am looking for all the occurrences or nearly all occurrences. I seem to be able to search AFAT but unable to do a query in AFAT. Not sure why. When ever I click the query tab the SBLGNT is the only text that logos allows me to morph or syntax search.

I have found an interesting resource in logos (Hebrew Grammatical Constructions: Dataset Documentation) which my produce the results I'm looking for but I'll have to wade through that before I can comment on it.

Thanks to all who have helped.

Posts 53
Rod Rogers | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2018 5:22 PM

I don't understand why you can't just search the AF text for NOUN(definite)-WITHIN 1 WORD-ADJECTIVE(indefinite).

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 30 2018 5:53 PM

Rod Rogers:
In Isaiah 7:14 I believe the word הָרָה is functioning as a predicate adjective.

Yes. It's one of the results from my Morph query above.

ESV "shall conceive"

NIV "will be with child"

LEB, NRSV "is with child"

You have to search a Hebrew bible (e.g. LHB) and the Information tool will show this under Translation. AFAT treats it as a Verb, along with it treating many adjectives as a noun!

Rod Rogers:
I seem to be able to search AFAT but unable to do a query in AFAT. Not sure why. When ever I click the query tab the SBLGNT is the only text that logos allows me to morph or syntax search.

Don't bother with Andersen-Forbes for this query.

Where is the "query tab" with only SBLGNT? Do you see the LHB (Lexham Hebrew Bible) or BHS/WIVU in the list of resources in Morph Search when you click the last drop-down menu in the Search...for line?

What Library package do you have e.g. Logos 7 Bronze, L7 Silver? What Feature Set? Do you have a Faithlife Connect subscription  (what level)?

Rod Rogers:
I have found an interesting resource in logos (Hebrew Grammatical Constructions: Dataset Documentation)

It doesn't even mention "adjective"!

Dave
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Rod Rogers | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 31 2018 5:52 AM

{What Library package do you have e.g. Logos 7 Bronze, L7 Silver? What Feature Set? Do you have a Faithlife Connect subscription  (what level)?}

Well, here's my problem. I have no base package. I thought back when I bought Biblical Languages Supplement and Greek New Testament Discourse Bundle I would be able to search the languages like I wanted. I have spent a total of $1,352.49 on  logos, had I spent that today I could have logos gold but now I can't hardly do any Hebrew searches. Now logos wants $1,360.85 for me to upgrade to standard gold. It kind of takes the fun out of opening logos up every morning.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 31 2018 5:56 PM

You should look at Logos 7 Fundamentals ($99.99 or less) and the Lexham Hebrew Bible ($49.99) to do this sort of work.

Dave
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Rod Rogers | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 31 2018 8:32 PM

Thanks Dave, even though I can't do what I want with what I have, I have learned some things from the searches you came up with. I will get the LEB. Thanks again for your effort.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 31 2018 11:57 PM

Rod Rogers:
I will get the LEB.

Assuming that is what you mean, a reverse interlinear bible like LEB cannot provide a proper language search due to the different word order and split segments e.g.with the definite article.

Dave
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Rod Rogers | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 24 2018 6:27 PM

Well, after two and a half months of trying I think I have finally done a morph search myself that produces all the predicate adjectives in the Old Testament. It seems to simple I am amazed. If I have made a mistake somewhere please let me know. Thanks to Dave Hooton for all your work. \\

It seems I may not be smart enough to insert my print screen picture. Give my another couple of months.

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