Search for all predicate adjectives in OT. The Anderson-Forbes text would be good. Thanks
Could someone help me with a search to find all (Hebrew) predicate adjectives in OT. Anderson-Forbes text would be fine.
Thanks,
Rod
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It can only be done in a Syntax Search with Andersen-Forbes. I'm not a student of Hebrew grammar, so trust that the Direct Object holds the predicate
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Thanks for your reply Dave. I was hoping you would look into this for me. As I understand the Hebrew predicate adjective, the noun preceding the adjective has the article (Hey) and the predicate adjective does not have the article (Hey). If both noun and adjective agree in gender, number and definiteness then it is an attributive adjective. It is the lack of the definite article that indicates the predicate adjective. I hope this helps. You may not know Hebrew but you seem to know a lot about Logos. Thanks.
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I've tried to search the Andersen-Forbes text but have yet to come up with a search that will produce hits. I'm going to read the Systematic Glossary to Andersen-Forbes and see if that will shed some light on this search. I have watched Mike Missler's videos and they helped (Got me started with the right text) but I'm still doing something wrong.
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Rod Rogers said:
I've tried to search the Andersen-Forbes text but have yet to come up with a search that will produce hits.
Supply some examples. I've got Ex 9:24; Lev 13:43; 1 Kings 8:65
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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It looks like Andersen-Forbes Hebrew has a problem with adjectives.
LHB ----> 537 results in 172 verses
<LogosMorphHeb ~ A> BEFORE 1 CHARS <LogosMorphHeb ~ N?????> BEFORE 2 CHARS <LogosMorphHeb ~ J????>
BHS/WIVU ----> 531 results in 170 verses
<WIVUMorphHeb ~ A> BEFORE 1 CHARS <WIVUMorphHeb ~ N????> BEFORE 2 CHARS <WIVUMorphHeb ~ J???>
Andersen-Forbes ---> 40 results in 19 verses
<AFMorphHeb ~ N?????H?> BEFORE 2 CHARS <AFMorphHeb ~ N?J?????>
We use CHARACTER (CHARS) spacing because the article is a prefix to Hebrew words i.e. 1 CHARS before the noun. To avoid it for the adjective add 1 character for the space between noun and adjective i.e. 2 CHARS.
AF has a parameter for "definite with article", so I used that with the Noun (adjectives are part of the Noun family).
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Here is a Morph search I did but it gives results that adjective comes before the noun and I don't want that. Any ideas? Thanks.I'm in between services today. I'll try to comment late tonight.
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I'm having trouble pasting my print screen to a post. Ugh.
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I usually get an error message when I try to send a copy of my print screen. This time I got:
Post Pending Moderation
Your post has been flagged by our spam-prevention measures, and is pending moderator approval before the post is shown. If the administrator has configured this forum to support email notifications you will receive an email when your post is either approved or denied (if you have emails enabled in your profile).
I'm not sure how I got this but I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be able to send a print screen until the powers that be allow me to do so. Sorry.
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If Morph Search, just paste the actual query as I did.
Use BEFORE to ensure the Noun comes before the adjective.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Rod Rogers said:
I'm not sure how I got this but I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be able to send a print screen until the powers that be allow me to do so. Sorry.
Were you using the paper clip icon? If so, what format is the shot in? jpg?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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No, I wasn't using the paper clip. I was just trying to pasting the screen shot into the post. I'm not very good at this. Sorry. I'll try the paper clip later. I'm sure it will work. I've been watching morph videos from Logos this morning and after a few appointments this morning I'm going to try this predicate adjective search again. Thanks for your help.
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In Isaiah 7:14 I believe the word הָרָה is functioning as a predicate adjective. Most versions translate this predicate adjective as future. What I want to do is to find all, or most predicate adjectives in the Old Testament and see how they are translated. I see this as a present "is pregnant" case, but I'd like to see all the predicate adjectives and study them to see if there is agreement or disagreement between different authors and early text verses later written text. That's my premise. How to accomplish that has seemed to be more of a trial that I think it should be.
I know that there are several texts similar to Isaiah 7:14 in grammar. I'm not looking for a few texts. I am looking for all the occurrences or nearly all occurrences. I seem to be able to search AFAT but unable to do a query in AFAT. Not sure why. When ever I click the query tab the SBLGNT is the only text that logos allows me to morph or syntax search.
I have found an interesting resource in logos (Hebrew Grammatical Constructions: Dataset Documentation) which my produce the results I'm looking for but I'll have to wade through that before I can comment on it.
Thanks to all who have helped.
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I don't understand why you can't just search the AF text for NOUN(definite)-WITHIN 1 WORD-ADJECTIVE(indefinite).
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Rod Rogers said:
In Isaiah 7:14 I believe the word הָרָה is functioning as a predicate adjective.
Yes. It's one of the results from my Morph query above.
ESV "shall conceive"
NIV "will be with child"
LEB, NRSV "is with child"
You have to search a Hebrew bible (e.g. LHB) and the Information tool will show this under Translation. AFAT treats it as a Verb, along with it treating many adjectives as a noun!
Rod Rogers said:I seem to be able to search AFAT but unable to do a query in AFAT. Not sure why. When ever I click the query tab the SBLGNT is the only text that logos allows me to morph or syntax search.
Don't bother with Andersen-Forbes for this query.
Where is the "query tab" with only SBLGNT? Do you see the LHB (Lexham Hebrew Bible) or BHS/WIVU in the list of resources in Morph Search when you click the last drop-down menu in the Search...for line?
What Library package do you have e.g. Logos 7 Bronze, L7 Silver? What Feature Set? Do you have a Faithlife Connect subscription (what level)?
Rod Rogers said:I have found an interesting resource in logos (Hebrew Grammatical Constructions: Dataset Documentation)
It doesn't even mention "adjective"!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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{What Library package do you have e.g. Logos 7 Bronze, L7 Silver? What Feature Set? Do you have a Faithlife Connect subscription (what level)?}
Well, here's my problem. I have no base package. I thought back when I bought Biblical Languages Supplement and Greek New Testament Discourse Bundle I would be able to search the languages like I wanted. I have spent a total of $1,352.49 on logos, had I spent that today I could have logos gold but now I can't hardly do any Hebrew searches. Now logos wants $1,360.85 for me to upgrade to standard gold. It kind of takes the fun out of opening logos up every morning.
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You should look at Logos 7 Fundamentals ($99.99 or less) and the Lexham Hebrew Bible ($49.99) to do this sort of work.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Thanks Dave, even though I can't do what I want with what I have, I have learned some things from the searches you came up with. I will get the LEB. Thanks again for your effort.
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Rod Rogers said:
I will get the LEB.
Assuming that is what you mean, a reverse interlinear bible like LEB cannot provide a proper language search due to the different word order and split segments e.g.with the definite article.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Well, after two and a half months of trying I think I have finally done a morph search myself that produces all the predicate adjectives in the Old Testament. It seems to simple I am amazed. If I have made a mistake somewhere please let me know. Thanks to Dave Hooton for all your work. \\
It seems I may not be smart enough to insert my print screen picture. Give my another couple of months.
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Well, here goes.
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Rod Rogers said:
It seems I may not be smart enough to insert my print screen picture
Just paste your Morph Search from the Search box, and state what bible you used.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Well, here I go again. I just woke up about 3 AM. thinking about this. The syntactic search I ran was a good search, at least I believe it is; it just doesn't return every predicate adjective in the Old Testament. The only rule that can't be violated is that the predicate adjective can not be articular (be preceded by an article). That means that I have to not only search for ARTICLE-NOUN-ADJECTIVE but ADJECTIVE-ARTICLE-NOUN and search NOUN-ADJECTIVE/ADJECTIVE-NOUN and go through these last two constructions manually and see which are predicate adjectives by context. That's the only way I will determine how many predicate adjectives there are in the OT.
Sorry for the confusion, I just got excited when I got a syntactic search to produce viable results with a morphological database. Anyway, I think I have answered my own question and that answer lies in the fact that someone has had to already have gone through the Hebrew text and tagged these adjectives as predicate adjectives and search for that tag. Without that morphological tag I'm not sure how one could run a computer search and find the predicate adjectives that have an anarthrous noun.
Having said all that I'm excited to see all the possibilities the Hebrew predicate adjective holds. What a marvelous book!
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Rod Rogers said:
Without that morphological tag I'm not sure how one could run a computer search and find the predicate adjectives that have an anarthrous noun.
It is not easy. For instance, your Morph Query somehow fails to show instances where the article is preceded by a conjunction. The Morph Search <LogosMorphHeb ~ A> BEFORE 1 CHARS <LogosMorphHeb ~ N?????> BEFORE 2 CHARS <LogosMorphHeb ~ J????> shows conjunction-article-noun as well as article-noun.
Rod Rogers said:That means that I have to not only search for ARTICLE-NOUN-ADJECTIVE but ADJECTIVE-ARTICLE-NOUN and search NOUN-ADJECTIVE/ADJECTIVE-NOUN and go through these last two constructions manually and see which are predicate adjectives by context.
You can run ADJECTIVE-ARTICLE-NOUN as <LogosMorphHeb ~ J????> BEFORE 2 CHARS <LogosMorphHeb ~ A> BEFORE 1 CHARS <LogosMorphHeb ~ N?????>, but you have to eliminate articular adjectives.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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I'm going to look at this some more and see what I can do as far as finding all the predicate adjectives in one search. Thanks for your input Dave.
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