Logos: How do you prioritize publishing Bibles.

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Posts 1539
Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jun 10 2010 7:42 AM

As I watch some the conversations about different foreign language Bibles that are being requested by users, it makes me thankful and a little bit embarrassed that I have such riches available to me in my native tongue. But aside from that I would appreciate it if Logos could educate us as to the process of how they prioritize which Bible translations to publish, as well the processes that need to take place in order for it to happen (Might make an good blog article).

If this isn't something that you would consider doing at this time, or if this resource already exists, I would also appreciate knowing that as well. Big Smile

 

 

 

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 10 2010 8:09 AM

Great suggestion Terry. It would be great to know the list and how far we are from seeing the requested language/Bible translations in Logos. The analogy is with commentaries. It is very helpful to know when the given book in a given series of commentaries will be finished. Usually there is that information available. The same would help if Logos would let us know how it is with all the Bible translations requested or planned to be published in Logos and what we can do to make it happen.

As I said it many times before, publishing modern Bible translation in any language for the first time does more than add just one resource to Logos. It adds possibility to that language group to use just one Bible software in their preparation. Most of us use English resources but we need our own Bible (we preach from) in Logos to copy Bible text etc.

Secondly, it opens whole new group of new potential customers for Logos. I know many pastors who would not buy any Bible software if they not have their Bible translation in it. It is logical. So I believe adding new Bible translations (non-English) to Logos should have very clear strategy from Logos and it would be great to hear about it whether here or by blog article.

Bohuslav

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Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 10 2010 12:02 PM

We like doing Bibles in many languages, and would like to offer them all. There are many obstacles, though:

1) We don't speak the language. If we don't speak a language, it can be hard for us to find the resource, to key it or proof-read it, to communicate with the copyright holder, etc.

2) No market. The smaller the language group, the less likely that digital files exist. Digital files can be expensive to create (particularly in languages other than English), and if there's no market it makes them financially difficult to justify.

3) Low interest from users. It turns out that users don't actually get very excited about a Bible in a language in which no other resources are available. Even if the files are readily available, if only the Bible is available, Logos Bible Software offers little advantage over a web-based search engine or free Bible software program. Our strength is managing a large library. There are some people who use English resources and just want the Bible in the other language (which is why we try to do it when we can), but not that many. So the "expanding the market" idea doesn't work well either -- the real market is people who want multiple books in their language, not just the Bible. To do that, we need more files, more contracts, and (usually) more ability to communicate in that language ourselves.

4) Inability to communicate. If we do get resources in <language>, we generally don't have the skill to write a web page, send an email, or provide tech support in that language. So fewer people know -- because they're searching for Bible software in their own language, not English -- and we're unable to help any but the bi-lingual users.

5) Rights confusion. Even Bibles can have complicated rights. Sometimes the popular Bible in <language> was a partnership (or a translation from English) with an English publisher. Even the "printing" publisher / ministry may be unclear where the electronic rights are, or they may involve multiple parties. This is even more of a problem with non-Biblical works, often translated and published on paper with limited "ministry-only" sub-rights.

So... we prioritize based on "number of speakers of the language" and "ease of rights / files" and/or "someone here speaks it."

If you want to move a particular Bible translation, or whole group of resources, higher in the priority queue, you're welcome to try and act as a liaison or consultant who helps us track down rights / files / write-a-description for the texts in your language of choice. Often times the "random" languages we seem to offer are simply the result of someone helping answer all the questions in advance.

-- Bob

 

Posts 1539
Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 10 2010 12:43 PM

Thank you Bob.

 

 

Posts 18828
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 10 2010 12:46 PM

Thanks, Bob. I've added this to the Logos Speaks page on the wiki.

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 10 2010 1:15 PM

Bob, I really appreciate your explanation. Yes, I knew I will hear all those things, but still, there is hope. I know if it would be easy, you would do it long time ago already.

My question is: do you involve the native publisher in the process of creation of the particular Bible? Speaking about Czech modern translations I know at least 3 of them want their translations to be published in Logos and they have electronic text ready to be implemented (or published already) into the various Bible softwares.

I may be wrong but I do not think that most of the native speakers who want the Bible in their language would use it only if there would be also books in their language in Logos. That might be true about the older generation who do not speak English. Almost all young ministers speaks English and are used to reading in English a lot (not even speaking about students). The important thing for them is to have an access to the best and most modern resources. That is the reason to have Logos over all the freeware Bible softwares. Plus the access to their resources on various platforms, MAC, iPhone etc. Not even speaking about all the superior research power of Logos.

For my personal study I use ESV, NET Bible, original languages and so on. For preaching I use Czech Bible. I always have to open each reference I want to use in my sermon twice. In my study and preparation and then to put it to my notes.

Bob Pritchett:
If you want to move a particular Bible translation, or whole group of resources, higher in the priority queue, you're welcome to try and act as a liaison or consultant who helps us track down rights / files / write-a-description for the texts in your language of choice. Often times the "random" languages we seem to offer are simply the result of someone helping answer all the questions in advance.

Yes, I said it already and want to repeat it again. I am willing to help any way possible to get these Bibles into the production.

Thank you again for trying to find the way how to get all those Bibles to Logos. I believe one day all of the European translations will be in Logos (that's the easy part) and also many other languages like Amharic and other Smile. God bless you.

Bohuslav

Posts 2956
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 10 2010 4:58 PM

               Superding!

I am amazed why Mr. Bob did not want to respond to this thread, instead he responded to another thread at the same time some looks for me a translator? I don’t understand it, but it makes me uncomfortable. Apart of this situation I thank every body’s encouragement.           http://community.logos.com/forums/p/18222/137264.aspx#137264 

Blessings in Christ.

Posts 2956
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 10 2010 5:06 PM

     Surprising!  

I am amazed why Mr. Bob did not want to respond to this thread, instead he responded to another thread at the same time some looks for me a translator? I don’t understand it, but it makes me uncomfortable. Apart of this situation I thank every body’s encouragement.  

 

Blessings in Christ.

Posts 2956
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 10 2010 5:14 PM

Sorry,I did not intend to comment here ,I have klicked the link by mistake.

Blessings in Christ.

Posts 93
Andreas Holmberg | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 10 2010 11:54 PM

I agree with Bohuslav. I' don't think Bob's third point is relevant. Most pastors and students of theology whose mothertongue is a small language are very used to reading books and articles in English and (for Europenas) even other languages such as German or French. At seminaries and theological colleges we read loads of books and stuff in English. No big deal. So I don't think the fact that Logos only offers a Bible and no other resources in a specific language would, as such, discourage people from using and investing in the program.

However, I believe that Bob is right in that marketing Logos is a bit more difficult in non-Englishspeaking countries. As suggested by a Dutch fellow in another thread extending the ambassador program to outisde the US could be a first and significant step in spreading Logos further.

Bless!

Pastor in Stockholm, Church of Sweden

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 11 2010 12:26 AM

Firstly, thank you Bob for taking the time to give a clear reply to this matter. It helps us to uderstand.

It seems to me, taking Bob's reply at face value, that if the Right's Holder, or someone working with them, was able to port/import the resource into the new PBB format later this year, complete with a lot of tagging, cross refs, and the like, then most of the "heavy lifting" will be done.

In fact, if the item can be given rather than sold, there is little more to do.

If its to be sold, then I guess there are additional steps, including contracts, licenses etc ...

It feels that what Bob has said about working with the Rights holders, and my words; "... starting with PBBs ...", then this could open up a large number of additional resources.

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 11 2010 1:10 AM

JimT:

Firstly, thank you Bob for taking the time to give a clear reply to this matter. It helps us to uderstand.

It seems to me, taking Bob's reply at face value, that if the Right's Holder, or someone working with them, was able to port/import the resource into the new PBB format later this year, complete with a lot of tagging, cross refs, and the like, then most of the "heavy lifting" will be done.

In fact, if the item can be given rather than sold, there is little more to do.

If its to be sold, then I guess there are additional steps, including contracts, licenses etc ...

It feels that what Bob has said about working with the Rights holders, and my words; "... starting with PBBs ...", then this could open up a large number of additional resources.

Yes, I agree that PBB would solve much of the problem. It can happen 2 ways: first, publishing all public domain Bibles as a new PBB fully integrated as a Logos resource, with possibility to add the meta-data as a Bible.

Secondly, it might be interesting for Logos to use all the PBB Bibles and change them for Logos resources with the agreement of the PBB creators. I think all of us who created some Bibles as PBBs would happily agree with that option.

As addition to that, even with some copyrighted Bibles, it might be easier for us locals to obtain the rights to publish the given Bible as a PBB resource (of course only in case if the new PBB would work as real Bible, not as it is in Logos 3 PBB).

The thing is that pastors and students in Europe will get Bible software for their work and they are willing to pay, they will go however for the one which has full range of Bibles in their particular language. And be sure, there are such Bible programs. I hope I am not alone to think they should have Logos as a valid option, which will be only if they see "their" Bible included.

PBB would be a good start in that process.

Bohuslav

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Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 11 2010 2:23 AM

Bob Pritchett:
It turns out that users don't actually get very excited about a Bible in a language in which no other resources are available. Even if the files are readily available, if only the Bible is available, Logos Bible Software offers little advantage over a web-based search engine or free Bible software program.

I agree  with everything else you've written here, Bob. But this isn't true, at least not in Wales. There's no a man or woman in Wales who can speak Welsh, but not English. Nevertheless, a great many people still prefer to read the Bible in their first language, particularly if it's the one they've been brought up with. Saying "users don't actually get very excited about a Bible in a language in which no other resources are available" is like saying "users don't need the KJV if they've got the NIV". People want their 'own' Bible.

Therefore in cultures where a lot of people speak English, I'm sure you would still find that non-English Bibles sell well. Surely some non-English Bibles would be more popular than translations such as the GOD'S WORD version, or the ISV.

With that in mind, can I put in a plea for Welsh. Either the 1588 William Morgan Bible (not available anywhere electronically, so the market's wide open), or Y Beibl Cymraeg Newydd (electronic version available from the publisher, but would need permissions - which I'd be confident you'd get because they've given e-Sword permission to distribute it).

A bit of history: William Morgan's 1588 Bible was one of the first translated into the vernacular anywhere in the world. It has had more influence on the Welsh language than even the KJV has had on English.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 11 2010 10:41 PM

Mark Barnes:
William Morgan's 1588 Bible was one of the first translated into the vernacular anywhere in the world.

While I agree with the intent of your post and agree that Morgan would be a nice addition ... I must question the "one of the first translated ..." portion of your statement:

4th century - Gothic
5th century - Armenian, Syriac, Coptic, Ethiopic, Georgian

I think these six vernaculars are well ahead of Welsh.Big Smile

Now wouldn't you have been disappointed in me if I'd failed to come up with the more obscure?Angel

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1692
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 11 2010 11:03 PM

I was, of course, generalizing.. and I see your point. But you make mine, too, at least with the 1588 version that's not available electronically. You wouldn't want me trying to type and proof that, despite my surname's likely history. (Pritchett <= Pritchard <= Prichard <= ap Richard)  :-)

We'll see what we can do about the one with files available....

 

Posts 2212
Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 11 2010 11:03 PM

MJ. Smith:

4th century - Gothic

5th century - Armenian, Syriac, Coptic, Ethiopic, Georgian

I'm pretty sure that the Septuagint and the Old Latin predate even these....

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 11 2010 11:09 PM

Damian McGrath:
I'm pretty sure that the Septuagint and the Old Latin predate even these....

Good, Damian Yes You can't go much further than Septuagint.

But even Czech Bible of Kralitz from 1579 is older than 1588, you see? Geeked

Bohuslav

Posts 2744
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 11 2010 11:16 PM

Bob Pritchett:
We'll see what we can do about the one with files available....

Great, Bob. Just to remind you, all Czech modern Bible translations I am speaking about are available as tagged digital files... Stick out tongue Sorry, I couldn't resist. I know it's not new information for you and I appreciate all your hard work to get as many Bibles to Logos as possible. Thanks for that.

Bohuslav

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 11 2010 11:25 PM

Damian McGrath:

MJ. Smith:

4th century - Gothic

5th century - Armenian, Syriac, Coptic, Ethiopic, Georgian

I'm pretty sure that the Septuagint and the Old Latin predate even these....

yup ...and the targums deserve at least a footnote

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 11 2010 11:40 PM

Bohuslav Wojnar:
But even Czech Bible of Kralitz from 1579 is older than 1588, you see? Geeked

And the Slovenian of Jurij Dalmatin, 1584 beats the Welsh by 4 yearsBig Smile

Cathars and Husserites both used vernacular translations, I think ... but I haven't found them in my Logos library. If we had the appropriate historian, the timelines of translations in various languages would be fun to have in the almanac.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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