How to best research a complex topic in Logos 8

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Posts 37
IHSA | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Mar 10 2020 4:21 PM

I am going to write a paper on what the Bible says about salvation for those people who never heard of Jesus or the plan of salvation or the Bible at all. An example of this type of people would be a 16th century Korean or Japanese. 

The syllogism is: The Bible says you must believe in Jesus to be saved. It is impossible to believe in something you have never heard of or never knew existed. Therefore everyone who never heard of Jesus or knew of His existence is condemned to hell. Is the true or false. That is what I am trying to research.

I have over 9000 books in my library and would like to use the power of Logos to research this. I am looking for several different view points and the arguments for and against that view point that can be found in my library.

I am unsure where to begin or how to do the research in Logos. If anyone can help, I would be very grateful.I am open to any suggestions but especially search syntax and search types. The bottom line is I really don't know what to search for.  Thanks for your help.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 10 2020 4:28 PM

I would start with three "Everything" searches:

  • "baptism of desire"
  • salvation NEAR "never heard"
  • salvation NEAR non-Christian

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 37
IHSA | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 10 2020 4:30 PM

Thanks MJ. I'll give it shot. It is nice to know I can always count on you.

Posts 318
Michael Parry-Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 10 2020 5:31 PM

Hi

I was some one who never heard of Jesus or the plan of salvation 

I someone was walking with me.

3036.dyslexic walking with faith.pdf

Mick
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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 11 2020 8:28 AM

IHSA:
It is impossible to believe in something you have never heard of or never knew existed. Therefore everyone who never heard of Jesus or knew of His existence is condemned to hell. Is the true or false. That is what I am trying to research.

Search your resources for {Milestone <Rom 2:14-16>}  where this passage speaks to your concern.

Dave
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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 11 2020 8:45 AM

This thread illustrates you have to know the search-for concepts. But you also need the alternative search-for. In this specific case, 2nd Temple tried two solutions to the conumdrum: no-believe-access + bad behavior = the abyss. Or saved = elected-from-the-start. The NT and subsequent continued the struggle.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 11 2020 9:50 AM

MJ. Smith:

I would start with three "Everything" searches:

  • "baptism of desire"
  • salvation NEAR "never heard"
  • salvation NEAR non-Christian

Can be combined into one search: (679 resources in my Logos library)

"baptism of desire" OR (("never heard" OR non-Christian) NEAR salvation)

Chapter heading "Finding Jesus" in Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus: A Devout Muslim Encounters Christianity provided a search expansion: (5,844 resources in my Logos library)

"baptism of desire" OR (("never heard" OR non-Christian) NEAR salvation) OR (finding WITHIN 3 WORDS Jesus)

Refined search a bit (keep "Finding Jesus" result while reducing number of sermon archive results ... 1,497 resources)

"baptism of desire" OR (("never heard" OR non-Christian) NEAR salvation) OR (finding WITHIN 3 WORDS Jesus WITHIN 21 WORDS (Lord OR Savior))

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 37
IHSA | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 11 2020 12:09 PM

Thanks Dave. I will give it a shot. 

Posts 37
IHSA | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 11 2020 12:11 PM

I am not sure what thread you are referring to. But thanks anyway for your willingness to help

Posts 37
IHSA | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 11 2020 12:13 PM

Thanks so much. This is very helpful and makes a great springboard for other searches. Very thought provoking. I really appreciate it

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 11 2020 3:27 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Can be combined into one search: (679 resources in my Logos library)

"baptism of desire" OR (("never heard" OR non-Christian) NEAR salvation)

You are absolutely right. However, there is a reason why in this case I would not - because I know that I will want to refine me criteria based on what each finds of interest..

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 11 2020 5:08 PM

In addition to the suggestions above, you'll probably want to (re)search these phrases/topics:

Factbook is a good place to start for many of these topics.

You may also want to check out some of the following books and articles:

Posts 37
IHSA | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 11 2020 6:32 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

In addition to the suggestions above, you'll probably want to (re)search these phrases/topics:

Factbook is a good place to start for many of these topics.

I'd also check out Four Views on Salvation in a Pluralistic World.

Thanks Phil. This will be very helpful. 

Posts 37
IHSA | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 11 2020 6:36 PM

MJ. Smith:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Can be combined into one search: (679 resources in my Logos library)

"baptism of desire" OR (("never heard" OR non-Christian) NEAR salvation)

You are absolutely right. However, there is a reason why in this case I would not - because I know that I will want to refine me criteria based on what each finds of interest..

Thanks again MJ. That is a good strategy I had not thought of.  

Posts 37
IHSA | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 11 2020 6:41 PM

Dave Hooton:

IHSA:
It is impossible to believe in something you have never heard of or never knew existed. Therefore everyone who never heard of Jesus or knew of His existence is condemned to hell. Is the true or false. That is what I am trying to research.

Search your resources for {Milestone <Rom 2:14-16>}  where this passage speaks to your concern.

Hi Dave,

I thought I knew what you were saying and I did get some interesting hits with this but it turns out that your search criteria is more sophisticated than I am.

Can you explain this search criteria and tell me exactly how and why it works?

Thanks again!

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 12 2020 7:23 AM

IHSA:
Can you explain this search criteria and tell me exactly how and why it works?

Rom 2:14-16 is the passage that deals with salvation outside of the Law and a knowledge of Jesus.

A Search for <Rom 2:14-16> will only find references that match it in resource text. 

But a Search for {Milestone <Rom 2:14-16>} will find articles that discuss the text of that bible reference e.g. in a Bible Commentary, Study Bible, or other resource where you can enter a bible Reference to get to its articles.

 

Dave
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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 12 2020 7:53 AM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
You may also want to check out some of the following books and articles:

OFF-TOPIC @Phil Gons: May I ask how you created the links in the lower part of your suggested list (from Sanders onward)? 

They come up in a strange format, including a biblio.au part like https://ref.ly/logosref/biblio.au$3DKreeft,$2520Peter$7Cbt$3DEverything$2520You$2520Ever$2520Wanted$2520to$2520Know$2520About$2520Heaven$7Clbid$3D2102087$7Cpl$3DSan$2520Francisco$7Cpr$3DHarper$2520$26$2520Row$7Cyr$3D1982 

and will not really work in my Chrome browser on Windows 10. They open the Logos Web app (which the ref.ly format nicely provides for) and then ask me whether I want to open Logos. Regardless of whether I allow that (the opening the Logos desktop application) or cancel it, the resource won't be opened in either the web app or Logos desktop for me. 

The standard ref.ly links that are generated from the kebap menu as "copy location as URL" (like https://ref.ly/logosres/vrythngyvrwntdk?ref=Page.p+3&off=13&ctx=PETER+KREEFT%0a~Everything+You+Ever+Wanted+  ) will work fine - they won't ask for opening Logos but just do it.

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

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Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 12 2020 9:42 AM

What about the Lexham Survey of Theology?  I'll be honest and say I haven't used it much but I would think a good poking around the salvation topic might generate some reads.

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 12 2020 12:42 PM

Mattillo:

What about the Lexham Survey of Theology?  I'll be honest and say I haven't used it much but I would think a good poking around the salvation topic might generate some reads.

My link above for the Fate of the unevangelized opens the Theology Guide, which is powered by the Lexham Survey of Theology.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 14 2020 3:13 AM

@Phil, let's take the off-topic discussion about the non-working "biblio.au" links to a separate thread where MJ Smith reported a non-working "biblio.at" link (which I can recreate) 

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

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