Self Learn Logos vs MP Training - please share your experience and thoughts

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This post has 37 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 48
Benny | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2020 8:17 PM

Hi everyone,

I have been using Logos for a while and am still using very basic functions, and probably 99% of the functions i still need to learn. I am trying to go through the various instruction videos on Logos, and have been thinking about the MP Seminars, Just want to see if it can really help you to accelerate mastering most of the important functions and features in Logos and know when to use them, or from another perspective, how to best use Logos for different Scripture study activities, comparing to viewing all the individual videos on Logos myself.    

As knowing a function in Logos is one thing, but knowing how they all work together to enhance certain aspects of studying the Scripture is another.   

Just want to get your thoughts for consideration.

Thanks very much!

Benny

Posts 25
Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 14 2020 8:30 PM

Logos is probably too complicated for most people to learn all of it on their own. In my opinion, the best money you could possibly spend would be on LearnLogos.com's training. I would wait until 9 comes out in the next month or so, because there are always great sales on new training, and get his training. 

Posts 48
Benny | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 14 2020 8:31 PM

Just to clarify, i want to clarify my post, i simply want to ask what is your experience and advantage you see after you attend MP Seminars or their video subscription. 

Thanks a lot!

Posts 48
Benny | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 14 2020 8:33 PM

Thanks a lot Justin!   so Logos 9 is really coming in the next 2 months?

Posts 29635
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 14 2020 8:50 PM

Benny:
Just to clarify, i want to clarify my post, i simply want to ask what is your experience and advantage you see after you attend MP Seminars or their video subscription. 

I have attended one MP seminar and purchased his training materials within Logos. I respect his work very much. The only way to get a truly useful answer to your question is to find some one more experienced than you who thinks in patterns similar to yours and who wants to accomplish tasks similar to those you wish to perform. Otherwise, the available training will be a mix ranging from very useful to bleh ... As for self-learning, that depends on your learning style -- it happens to work well for me but I rarely recommend it to others. Why? because if it occurs to them to ask, they probably aren't strong on self-taught ...

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 54
The Flanary's | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 14 2020 10:40 PM

I am, by no means, very experienced in Logos having just transitioned from Wordsearch. But, I can say that I took one 4 day weekend and watched his "Camp Logos" 1 and 2 sets. By the time I was done I am very comfortable with everything.
 I went back in and picked up some Canvas webinars from the library, as they weren't covered in Camp Logos, but other than that Camp Logos covered everything significant. 
 If you timed your subscription so as to have a month where you expected alot of free time, you could probably learn everything you want in that month. We have! So much so that we're going to keep our sub awhile in gratitude (and in anticipation of L9).

Stop talking about missing the "Old Saints" and be an Old Saint

Posts 48
Benny | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 15 2020 3:17 AM

Thanks very much MJ and Flanary for sharing your experiences!   

Posts 7
Earl Tipton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 15 2020 6:03 AM

Benny,

I benefited from the MP Seminars in two big ways. First, I learned how to organize my library. This helps me perform tightly targeted searches in specific sections of my resources. Forgotten books reappear at just the right time because I've placed them in collections that are named meaningfully. Morris Proctor's online seminars explained how to organize thousands of titles. Second, the seminars allowed me to see features in action. Logos is feature-rich, but I am time-poor. The quickest way for me to understand a particular functionality was to watch a few 3-5 minute clips online. The quality of MP's explanations is very high, so after watching him explain the feature I know whether it will be useful to me.

There was a period of years when I questioned the value proposition of Logos software. I owned Logos 6 and 7, but only used the simplest lookup features. For several years I tried to learn through the LogosTalk blog, but wasn't making sustained progress. FL sent a representative to teach a one day, hands-on seminar at my seminary, but he spent the day trying to sell more resources. I went home angry, having wasted a precious vacation day. Two more years passed before I decided to sign up for MP Seminars. I'm happy to report that my satisfaction with Logos went up immensely.

Posts 48
Benny | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 15 2020 9:25 AM

Thanks a lot Earl!  This provides good insight as what you described about your experience is similar to mine.  I have logos for 2 year now and I find that i only know very few and basic features.  I tried to go through the logos videos but sometimes hard to pull all of the features together to utilize the full power of the logos platform.   Now i am in seminary and would really like to be able to study the Scriptures in deep and hope to utilize all the available features that will help in this process.  Thanks very much!

Posts 386
Batman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 15 2020 9:59 AM

Benny,

Take it from personal experience, One MUST use training if they are not going to be a bitter Logos user!
I am not the poorest person on earth, by any stretch of the imagination; but, my income does qualify as below the poverty level. I struggle financially and find paying for training to be excessive and expensive and mind boggling. WHY pay $400 to a trillion dollars for a Bible, then need to pay an additional $400 just to learn how to use it? 
I do not particularly trust MP, as he is extremely polished and slick. I currently use John Fallahee, but it too is expensive, at $15/mo and over $600/yr. He is less polished, imo, but, he has the heart of a teacher. He does do all the teaching and work on his own; and probably needs to have a couple people to help. He was kind enough to answer my not so nice email about the expenses involved with his training program. Which, I concede, make sense. It does cost to produce and maintain the service, and as we all know "A workman IS worthy his hire". So, this will apply to MP as well. And, the fact I do not feel comfortable or trust polished speakers, does not mean he is untrustworthy. It just means, I don't trust it. I do not know their true motivations. 

I purchased Logos in 2009, and despite being told there was no Logos 4 in sight, within 2-3 months, there it was! I felt lied to. Then bitterness grew deeper as the more I used Logos, the more I despised the software and the company. Now understand, I have used Bible software for years prior to Logos. So, I expected it to be a breeze and enjoyable. But, nothing was similar, except the text itself. The interface was extremely complicated-- so much as to not really work for me in even finding simple verses, much less all the wonderful "Research assistance" promised. I fell deeper into bitterness, because for me, the academic discount was STILL expensive ($400) but, it was the only Bible software that still worked with the then new Win XP. All my other software failed. Now, 11 years later, I have sunk more than $6,000 into Logos, and while the bitterness is going away, the desire has all but completely disappeared. But, I trod on, because it's been $6000-7000 plopped into it. 

Back to the training. I had hoped to use MP Seminars for a couple months at most, to go through the entire Camp Logos training and Logos 8 differences. I learned some things that have helped. But, I switched to LearnLogos, to save a few bucks a month. 

I can tell you now, if they had had a monthly subscription back then, I would have done that, and within a few months would have had a great desire to learn how to use the software to it's fullest potential. Either service. Today, however, I have all but lost that desire; with little to no time, I have been backed into a corner I do not like. 

I finally realized one day that companies pay heavily to have their employees trained in new software, so they can use it effectively. While I am still unsure about this for Bible software, I do understand it is unlike the software I previously used, more sophisticated, and requires training. Which does cost. The free training Logos offers has been greatly improved over the years, offering more material; but, I have to admit, using the MP seminars, for a free month, and then perhaps a couple extra months is a very great way to learn the Camp Logos material for $20-60. Then for $15 a month using LearnLogos for some other training is also a good idea. Use the codes to get Greek, Hebrew training, or a host of other teaching and learning material for $5 or less. 

I hope this has helped. But, YES pay for training that will keep you from hating life. 






Benny:

Hi everyone,

I have been using Logos for a while and am still using very basic functions, and probably 99% of the functions i still need to learn. I am trying to go through the various instruction videos on Logos, and have been thinking about the MP Seminars, Just want to see if it can really help you to accelerate mastering most of the important functions and features in Logos and know when to use them, or from another perspective, how to best use Logos for different Scripture study activities, comparing to viewing all the individual videos on Logos myself.    

As knowing a function in Logos is one thing, but knowing how they all work together to enhance certain aspects of studying the Scripture is another.   

Just want to get your thoughts for consideration.

Thanks very much!

Benny

Posts 11194
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 15 2020 10:02 AM

Benny:
Now i am in seminary and would really like to be able to study the Scriptures in deep and hope to utilize all the available features that will help in this process.

Averting your question. And you seemed to like your experience, so that's good. And, in seminary, Logos is far superior to 'the library'.

That said, I'm a big believer in a well-educated gentleman in the scholarly world, who was on the forum from not so far back (George).  If you take the easy way, it'll take you longer. Logos sells to fast and superficial. Skip the RIs. Forego the tagging. Read the books and OL.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 48
Benny | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 15 2020 10:19 AM

Thanks a lot Batman for sharing your experience!  This sharing is valuable!  I too have put in lots of money in it and when i evaluate what i can do out of it (not due to the software capability but my knowledge of using it), it just doesn't make sense.  For all the books i have, it simply become another Kindle for me, but a very expensive one :)  so i would like to really take some time to learn the features that most beneficial for studying the Scripture, original languages, and on specific topics that i want to research and understand deeper.    

Thanks for mentioning Learnlogos.  I never know about it and will definitely take a look!  Very much apprecated!

Benny

Posts 48
Benny | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 15 2020 10:21 AM

Thanks a lot Denise!  Good advice and reminder!   :)

Posts 897
Brother Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 16 2020 8:43 AM

@Benny, I'm a QuickVerse, PC Bible, WordSearch, eSword, Themelios convert.  I've played with virtually every "free" bible software as well.... sometimes I used several simultaneously and in concert with Logos..... (Not intended as a CV, but to give you a little insight into my overall experience with Bible softwares)

I have invested in MP Seminar's printed materials in the form of handbooks, manuals, and Morris' DVDs of Camp Logos.  I also attended a Camp Logos with my wife (a lovely two day get-away).  And finally, I've bought two iterations of LearnLogos.com DVD sets of videos. (um, seems like I'm still trotting out credentials in order to convince you that this next part may be valuable to your decision. Sorry.)

I, like you, was convinced that I wasn't getting all the "goody" from my Logos, hence all the training materials, and seminars.  THE best investment I made was Camp Logos for those dedicated two days of immersive Logos training.  It was an epiphany.  It was fun and entertaining. Most of all it opened all the doors, and pulled back the curtains; revealing the hidden universe of Logos for me.  I am fairly good at distance learning and data mining; but Camp Logos removes the scut work of bland study, and gave me the Meat 'n Potatoes that I hungered for.  LearnLogos.com is awesome for quick refresher/research, but I use(d) it like an encyclopedia, whereas a couple of days with Morris was more like a deep-dive into a mystery novel that you can't put down until suddenly the mystery is solved.  Yeah, I'd do it if I were you, provided that you aren't resource constrained.  

"I read dead people..."

Posts 48
Benny | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 16 2020 9:15 AM

Thanks a lot Brother Mark!   It is really great to have you sharing your experience as it both affirms the necessity (if ones want to master Logos functions to its maximum benefit in studying the Scriptures in the shortest time possible) and the quality and benefits of the MPSeminars.   I am convinced that I will go that route very soon.   As other suggest, i am waiting for Logos 9 and then some discounts in either Logos trianing or MP Seminars around that time, hopefully within the next month or so.    

Thanks again for your kind sharing!

Posts 240
MWW | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 16 2020 10:57 AM

I have used both MP and LearnLogos and benefited greatly from both. My own preference is for MP Seminars and Morris' style of disseminating information... more of a personal preference than anything.  The 20$ monthly option for MP worked well for me. The Camp Logos 8 online is a great foundation for using Logos. I have no inside information but I assume that both Morris and John are presently busy preparing for the Logos 9 launch.

Posts 94
Gary George | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 16 2020 11:23 AM

Hey Benny,

Self taught.  I started with word studies and ask a Pastor what resources he used.  That guided me to using dictionaries and the Pulpit Commentary.  Dictionaries helped to guide as a non-commentary type of resource.

Trainings can help with anything.  But then there is the cost involved and Logos has levels of features so if you want all the features, you would have to upgrade.

Grace and peace.

Posts 681
Scott E. Mahle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 16 2020 1:32 PM

Hopefully MP Seminars will produce the digital training manuals for Logos 9 like they did for 6 and 7!

They are so convenient to have on the shortcuts bar.

Logos Series X Pastor’s Library | Logos 3 Leader’s Library | Logos 4 Portfolio | Logos 5 Platinum | Logos 6 Feature Crossgrade | Logos 7 Essential Upgrade - Large | Logos 8 Methodist & Wesleyan Platinum and Academic Professional

Posts 48
Benny | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 16 2020 2:47 PM

Thanks everyone!   Really great advice and experience sharing!  Much appreciated!

Posts 3705
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 17 2020 1:49 PM

For me, the question of worth depends first on what I need to do with the software, & second on how well my then current capability is.

Could I USE more features of Logos than I currently do? Absolutely.

  • If I needed (or wanted) to use more of Logos, I'd need training.
  • If unknown features of Logos would speed up what I need to do, I'd also need training.

What do I need to do in Logos?

  • Weekly sermon prep
  • Weekly Bible studies
  • Finding answers to congregational bible questions
  • Frequent use of interlinear Bibles, lexicons, & from Bible text, lexical word lookup (Hebrew, Greek, Chaldean, Aramaic, & sometimes Latin)
  • Occasionally, use Logos "drills" into language texts, (morph searches across bible texts)?

Can I do everything I need to do with Logos?

  • Yep. My learning style finds self-taught to be an extremely effective method, & as having retired from a 25yr career in IT, I'm not afraid to play with computers & software (to me, it IS play). I may be rusty each time I have to do a morph search (not often), but I have yet to be frustrated in the attempt; but then again I'm comfortable with Boolean search logic
  • Could I do what I need to do more efficiently? Most likely, but I need it so rarely I'd likely forget.
  • Do I need many of the "features"--sermon aids, clippings, etc.? Probably not--I don't use them. I use Word for "clippings", notes, & sermon manuscripts. 
  • Nor do I use the sermon editor, as I find more conducive to birth the sermon in prayer, directly with the text (I'm an expository preacher).

Bottom line, would training be worth it to me? 

No, as my weekly process doesn't take a lot of time in any given day, leaving plenty of time for the occasional research inquiry.

My counsel? What do you need Logos for? If you need it for more than you can currently use & either don't have the time or don't feel comfortable playing with it to discover what you need, by all means get training... It all starts with what you need it for.

Grace & Peace,
Bill


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