Self Learn Logos vs MP Training - please share your experience and thoughts

Hi everyone,

I have been using Logos for a while and am still using very basic functions, and probably 99% of the functions i still need to learn. I am trying to go through the various instruction videos on Logos, and have been thinking about the MP Seminars, Just want to see if it can really help you to accelerate mastering most of the important functions and features in Logos and know when to use them, or from another perspective, how to best use Logos for different Scripture study activities, comparing to viewing all the individual videos on Logos myself.

As knowing a function in Logos is one thing, but knowing how they all work together to enhance certain aspects of studying the Scripture is another.

Just want to get your thoughts for consideration.

Thanks very much!

Benny

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Justin Gatlin

Logos is probably too complicated for most people to learn all of it on their own. In my opinion, the best money you could possibly spend would be on LearnLogos.com's training. I would wait until 9 comes out in the next month or so, because there are always great sales on new training, and get his training.

Benny

Just to clarify, i want to clarify my post, i simply want to ask what is your experience and advantage you see after you attend MP Seminars or their video subscription.

Thanks a lot!

Benny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1123354#Comment_1123354

Thanks a lot Justin! so Logos 9 is really coming in the next 2 months?

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1123355#Comment_1123355

Just to clarify, i want to clarify my post, i simply want to ask what is your experience and advantage you see after you attend MP Seminars or their video subscription.

I have attended one MP seminar and purchased his training materials within Logos. I respect his work very much. The only way to get a truly useful answer to your question is to find some one more experienced than you who thinks in patterns similar to yours and who wants to accomplish tasks similar to those you wish to perform. Otherwise, the available training will be a mix ranging from very useful to bleh ... As for self-learning, that depends on your learning style -- it happens to work well for me but I rarely recommend it to others. Why? because if it occurs to them to ask, they probably aren't strong on self-taught ...

The Flanary's

I am, by no means, very experienced in Logos having just transitioned from Wordsearch. But, I can say that I took one 4 day weekend and watched his "Camp Logos" 1 and 2 sets. By the time I was done I am very comfortable with everything.
I went back in and picked up some Canvas webinars from the library, as they weren't covered in Camp Logos, but other than that Camp Logos covered everything significant.
If you timed your subscription so as to have a month where you expected alot of free time, you could probably learn everything you want in that month. We have! So much so that we're going to keep our sub awhile in gratitude (and in anticipation of L9).

Benny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1123367#Comment_1123367

Thanks very much MJ and Flanary for sharing your experiences!

Earl Tipton

Benny,

I benefited from the MP Seminars in two big ways. First, I learned how to organize my library. This helps me perform tightly targeted searches in specific sections of my resources. Forgotten books reappear at just the right time because I've placed them in collections that are named meaningfully. Morris Proctor's online seminars explained how to organize thousands of titles. Second, the seminars allowed me to see features in action. Logos is feature-rich, but I am time-poor. The quickest way for me to understand a particular functionality was to watch a few 3-5 minute clips online. The quality of MP's explanations is very high, so after watching him explain the feature I know whether it will be useful to me.

There was a period of years when I questioned the value proposition of Logos software. I owned Logos 6 and 7, but only used the simplest lookup features. For several years I tried to learn through the LogosTalk blog, but wasn't making sustained progress. FL sent a representative to teach a one day, hands-on seminar at my seminary, but he spent the day trying to sell more resources. I went home angry, having wasted a precious vacation day. Two more years passed before I decided to sign up for MP Seminars. I'm happy to report that my satisfaction with Logos went up immensely.

Benny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1123411#Comment_1123411

Thanks a lot Earl! This provides good insight as what you described about your experience is similar to mine. I have logos for 2 year now and I find that i only know very few and basic features. I tried to go through the logos videos but sometimes hard to pull all of the features together to utilize the full power of the logos platform. Now i am in seminary and would really like to be able to study the Scriptures in deep and hope to utilize all the available features that will help in this process. Thanks very much!

Batman

Benny,

Take it from personal experience, One MUST use training if they are not going to be a bitter Logos user!
I am not the poorest person on earth, by any stretch of the imagination; but, my income does qualify as below the poverty level. I struggle financially and find paying for training to be excessive and expensive and mind boggling. WHY pay $400 to a trillion dollars for a Bible, then need to pay an additional $400 just to learn how to use it?
I do not particularly trust MP, as he is extremely polished and slick. I currently use John Fallahee, but it too is expensive, at $15/mo and over $600/yr. He is less polished, imo, but, he has the heart of a teacher. He does do all the teaching and work on his own; and probably needs to have a couple people to help. He was kind enough to answer my not so nice email about the expenses involved with his training program. Which, I concede, make sense. It does cost to produce and maintain the service, and as we all know "A workman IS worthy his hire". So, this will apply to MP as well. And, the fact I do not feel comfortable or trust polished speakers, does not mean he is untrustworthy. It just means, I don't trust it. I do not know their true motivations.

I purchased Logos in 2009, and despite being told there was no Logos 4 in sight, within 2-3 months, there it was! I felt lied to. Then bitterness grew deeper as the more I used Logos, the more I despised the software and the company. Now understand, I have used Bible software for years prior to Logos. So, I expected it to be a breeze and enjoyable. But, nothing was similar, except the text itself. The interface was extremely complicated-- so much as to not really work for me in even finding simple verses, much less all the wonderful "Research assistance" promised. I fell deeper into bitterness, because for me, the academic discount was STILL expensive ($400) but, it was the only Bible software that still worked with the then new Win XP. All my other software failed. Now, 11 years later, I have sunk more than $6,000 into Logos, and while the bitterness is going away, the desire has all but completely disappeared. But, I trod on, because it's been $6000-7000 plopped into it.

Back to the training. I had hoped to use MP Seminars for a couple months at most, to go through the entire Camp Logos training and Logos 8 differences. I learned some things that have helped. But, I switched to LearnLogos, to save a few bucks a month.

I can tell you now, if they had had a monthly subscription back then, I would have done that, and within a few months would have had a great desire to learn how to use the software to it's fullest potential. Either service. Today, however, I have all but lost that desire; with little to no time, I have been backed into a corner I do not like.

I finally realized one day that companies pay heavily to have their employees trained in new software, so they can use it effectively. While I am still unsure about this for Bible software, I do understand it is unlike the software I previously used, more sophisticated, and requires training. Which does cost. The free training Logos offers has been greatly improved over the years, offering more material; but, I have to admit, using the MP seminars, for a free month, and then perhaps a couple extra months is a very great way to learn the Camp Logos material for $20-60. Then for $15 a month using LearnLogos for some other training is also a good idea. Use the codes to get Greek, Hebrew training, or a host of other teaching and learning material for $5 or less.

I hope this has helped. But, YES pay for training that will keep you from hating life.

Hi everyone,

I have been using Logos for a while and am still using very basic functions, and probably 99% of the functions i still need to learn. I am trying to go through the various instruction videos on Logos, and have been thinking about the MP Seminars, Just want to see if it can really help you to accelerate mastering most of the important functions and features in Logos and know when to use them, or from another perspective, how to best use Logos for different Scripture study activities, comparing to viewing all the individual videos on Logos myself.

As knowing a function in Logos is one thing, but knowing how they all work together to enhance certain aspects of studying the Scripture is another.

Just want to get your thoughts for consideration.

Thanks very much!

Benny

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1123444#Comment_1123444

Now i am in seminary and would really like to be able to study the Scriptures in deep and hope to utilize all the available features that will help in this process.

Averting your question. And you seemed to like your experience, so that's good. And, in seminary, Logos is far superior to 'the library'.

That said, I'm a big believer in a well-educated gentleman in the scholarly world, who was on the forum from not so far back (George). If you take the easy way, it'll take you longer. Logos sells to fast and superficial. Skip the RIs. Forego the tagging. Read the books and OL.

Benny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1123452#Comment_1123452

Thanks a lot Batman for sharing your experience! This sharing is valuable! I too have put in lots of money in it and when i evaluate what i can do out of it (not due to the software capability but my knowledge of using it), it just doesn't make sense. For all the books i have, it simply become another Kindle for me, but a very expensive one so i would like to really take some time to learn the features that most beneficial for studying the Scripture, original languages, and on specific topics that i want to research and understand deeper.

Thanks for mentioning Learnlogos. I never know about it and will definitely take a look! Very much apprecated!

Benny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1123453#Comment_1123453

Thanks a lot Denise! Good advice and reminder!

Brother Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1123458#Comment_1123458

@Benny, I'm a QuickVerse, PC Bible, WordSearch, eSword, Themelios convert. I've played with virtually every "free" bible software as well.... sometimes I used several simultaneously and in concert with Logos..... (Not intended as a CV, but to give you a little insight into my overall experience with Bible softwares)

I have invested in MP Seminar's printed materials in the form of handbooks, manuals, and Morris' DVDs of Camp Logos. I also attended a Camp Logos with my wife (a lovely two day get-away). And finally, I've bought two iterations of LearnLogos.com DVD sets of videos. (um, seems like I'm still trotting out credentials in order to convince you that this next part may be valuable to your decision. Sorry.)

I, like you, was convinced that I wasn't getting all the "goody" from my Logos, hence all the training materials, and seminars. THE best investment I made was Camp Logos for those dedicated two days of immersive Logos training. It was an epiphany. It was fun and entertaining. Most of all it opened all the doors, and pulled back the curtains; revealing the hidden universe of Logos for me. I am fairly good at distance learning and data mining; but Camp Logos removes the scut work of bland study, and gave me the Meat 'n Potatoes that I hungered for. LearnLogos.com is awesome for quick refresher/research, but I use(d) it like an encyclopedia, whereas a couple of days with Morris was more like a deep-dive into a mystery novel that you can't put down until suddenly the mystery is solved. Yeah, I'd do it if I were you, provided that you aren't resource constrained.

Benny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1123665#Comment_1123665

Thanks a lot Brother Mark! It is really great to have you sharing your experience as it both affirms the necessity (if ones want to master Logos functions to its maximum benefit in studying the Scriptures in the shortest time possible) and the quality and benefits of the MPSeminars. I am convinced that I will go that route very soon. As other suggest, i am waiting for Logos 9 and then some discounts in either Logos trianing or MP Seminars around that time, hopefully within the next month or so.

Thanks again for your kind sharing!

MWW

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1123669#Comment_1123669

I have used both MP and LearnLogos and benefited greatly from both. My own preference is for MP Seminars and Morris' style of disseminating information... more of a personal preference than anything. The 20$ monthly option for MP worked well for me. The Camp Logos 8 online is a great foundation for using Logos. I have no inside information but I assume that both Morris and John are presently busy preparing for the Logos 9 launch.

Gary George

Hey Benny,

Self taught. I started with word studies and ask a Pastor what resources he used. That guided me to using dictionaries and the Pulpit Commentary. Dictionaries helped to guide as a non-commentary type of resource.

Trainings can help with anything. But then there is the cost involved and Logos has levels of features so if you want all the features, you would have to upgrade.

Grace and peace.

Scott E. Mahle

Hopefully MP Seminars will produce the digital training manuals for Logos 9 like they did for 6 and 7!

They are so convenient to have on the shortcuts bar.

Benny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1123742#Comment_1123742

Thanks everyone! Really great advice and experience sharing! Much appreciated!

BillS

For me, the question of worth depends first on what I need to do with the software, & second on how well my then current capability is.

Could I USE more features of Logos than I currently do? Absolutely.

If I needed (or wanted) to use more of Logos, I'd need training.
If unknown features of Logos would speed up what I need to do, I'd also need training.

What do I need to do in Logos?

Weekly sermon prep
Weekly Bible studies
Finding answers to congregational bible questions
Frequent use of interlinear Bibles, lexicons, & from Bible text, lexical word lookup (Hebrew, Greek, Chaldean, Aramaic, & sometimes Latin)
Occasionally, use Logos "drills" into language texts, (morph searches across bible texts)?

Can I do everything I need to do with Logos?

Yep. My learning style finds self-taught to be an extremely effective method, & as having retired from a 25yr career in IT, I'm not afraid to play with computers & software (to me, it IS play). I may be rusty each time I have to do a morph search (not often), but I have yet to be frustrated in the attempt; but then again I'm comfortable with Boolean search logic
Could I do what I need to do more efficiently? Most likely, but I need it so rarely I'd likely forget.
Do I need many of the "features"--sermon aids, clippings, etc.? Probably not--I don't use them. I use Word for "clippings", notes, & sermon manuscripts.
Nor do I use the sermon editor, as I find more conducive to birth the sermon in prayer, directly with the text (I'm an expository preacher).

Bottom line, would training be worth it to me?

No, as my weekly process doesn't take a lot of time in any given day, leaving plenty of time for the occasional research inquiry.

My counsel? What do you need Logos for? If you need it for more than you can currently use & either don't have the time or don't feel comfortable playing with it to discover what you need, by all means get training... It all starts with what you need it for.

Liam Maguire

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1123921#Comment_1123921

My counsel? What do you need Logos for? If you need it for more than you can currently use & either don't have the time or don't feel comfortable playing with it to discover what you need, by all means get training... It all starts with what you need it for.

This is great advice! For my part...

I’ve been using logos since 2011 and seen a lot of changes to the software in that time... All for the better I would say. My personally circumstances are that I don't have a lot of spare income or spare time, as a result I don't have the luxury of investing in a training sub, a two day intensive, etc. and so self-taught is the only option for me. But like Bill I'm a confident self-learner and in FL credit L7 and L8 both worked to make the software more accessible (Bible Browser and Concordance interactive both come to mind).

That said, there are some distinct shortcomings to self-taught route.

1. I know I don't use the software to its fullest. I hear what Bill's says and it is great advice, for me, with a library of over 3,000 titles I find it erksome that I don't use those resources to the full. It feels like using a top of the range sports car just to take the kids to school and back. I always get the sense it was made for more and if I could just... Then I'd be away. For example, Collections is certainly not used to its fullest neither search.

2. I find learning the search language worse than trying to learn Greek. I get that it is logically etc, however, my non-logical dyslexic brain really rails against it. 9 years in and I still haven't mastered it. Training is probably what I need to crack the nut.

Finally I think that new users are surprised that Logos requires training to use. For anyone who has invested in a premium software (eg. Photoshop) this is par for the course. However I think the notion for busy pastors who have paid $300 for a base package plus $X00 for the full feature set only to realise after the 30days is up that they now need to spend another $x0 per month on training may be perceived as a bit of a joke (read: British understatement). That's probably a job for marketing and CS though...

Conclusion, you can teach yourself Logos, and if like BillS you have a tightly bounded set of desires you want to fulfill with Logos you should be OK. However, you should know that beyond that self-learning is a double-edged sword.

Dunno if anyone that helps.

Benny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1124011#Comment_1124011

Thanks a lot Bill and Liam for your experience sharing and insights! Based on all the responses so far, i got that 1) MP Seminars and LearnLogo are great and helpful 2) it really depends on each one's situation on whether take the extra training or self-taught. But to get the most out of Logos, there is a deep learning curve (depends on the person's background of course), and require a lot of time to figure that out or go through all the help blog or training video and try to pull all those together for each person's own needs. 3) features in Logos that we use by self-taught may be limited to what we want to do, but there might be other great features in Logos that we are not even aware that may enhance what we want to do, and do it better and faster etc.

For my case, my restraints are that 1) I am really struggling to find time to self-taught. i know if there is enough time i may be able to learn what i want to do. 2) what i want to do is very limited to what i know on utilizing tools etc. to do in-depth study of the Scripture. I have basic skills in this but my knowledge is very limited and would really want someone to tell me what features in Logos can help in the process. As sometimes i see a feature, i know it is useful and great, and i can use that feature, but i do want to know the best way to use the feature in the Scripture study workflow.

Again, Thanks so much for everyone's response and input so far!

Gary George

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1124049#Comment_1124049

One of the great ways to learn is at the basics. Study a scripture in context. I recently did an encouragement through Romans and 2 Corinthians where I looked at each paragraph thought and then look at original words in that context (if needed), use a dictionary. Since the beginning, I have had few resources and few features of Logos and it is sufficient.

These resources are all I really use:

TWOT

TDNTA

The Pulpit Commentary is a great resource since it includes a wide range in information for each scripture.

Unless you are studying a specific book in its entirety, would not recommend too many commentaries. Commentaries are generally scripture already chewed by someone else. Instead, use dictionaries to find original meanings and commentaries later.

Grace and peace.

Thomas Myers

Benny I have been using Logos since 1966. I depend on the Logos training within Logos and Morris Proctor's training.

Programs such as Tools or Guides and Sermon Editor are consistently improved (updated) one needs to be on top of the changes.

It also really helps if you a good pastor friend who also uses the same Bible computer program and level. It really helps to get together with another pastor and talk about books and using Logos. I believe Logos is the very best program and have enjoyed the upgraded and consistent updates.

I have to confess I do not like to pay for Logos and then need pay to learn Logos. The advantage of the Morris Proctor training is built

on a step by step learning level and very easy to understand. Plus you can email Morris any questions.

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1124119#Comment_1124119

Benny I have been using Logos since 1966.

Wow! That is far before my time. [;)]

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1124119#Comment_1124119

I have been using Logos since 1966.

Perhaps a bit of a typo . . . are you sure Bob was even born then? The company started in 1992, released Libronix in 2001 . . .

MWW

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1124159#Comment_1124159

Perhaps a bit of a typo . . . are you sure Bob was even born then? The company started in 1992, released Libronix in 2001 . . .

Yes but I think The Logos predates that [:)]

Benny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1124304#Comment_1124304

Thanks everyone for your continuous input and sharing! [:D]

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1124304#Comment_1124304

The Logos predates that

predates dates for sure

Greg Corbin

I have been a Logos user for 12 years - starting with Logos 3. I tried a number of training options, but far and away the most beneficial was attending a Camp Logos two day seminar. Now MP Seminars is offering the videos to watch on your own time. For many of us "time" is the problem. The advantage of Camp Logos is that you clear your calendar and you concentrate on learning the software for two consecutive days. Those two days were game changers for me. don't know if I would have ever watched that many videos and followed through the way I did with the in person.

Phil Tuften

Hi,

Have never used the Camp Logos stuff.

Have used the free Academic and other free tutorials provided in Logos, and find these are good for most things.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1124643#Comment_1124643

So far, no one has mentioned the excellent training provided by Devin Roza and Andrew Dalton

Verbum 360 Training
by Devin Roza; Andrew Dalton
Verbum Advanced Search Training
by Devin Roza; Andrew Dalton
Verbum Advanced Academic Training
by Devin Roza; Andrew Dalton
Verbum Advanced Homiletics Training
by Devin Roza; Andrew Dalton

JohnB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1124673#Comment_1124673

Verbum Advanced Search Training by Devin Roza; Andrew Dalton

I got that and I found it excellent.

I was the guy who when he bought MS Word in the early 90's took the two inch thick manual with him to a week away work training session to read rather than sit rotting my brain in front of the TV in my hotel room. Excellent read!

BillS

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1124119#Comment_1124119

Benny I have been using Logos since 1966.

Only since version 1.6 in 1994, here, which I bought with an original languages pack for seminary...

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1126137#Comment_1126137

I've mostly been self taught, and learned quite a bit from the forums.

However, there was a lot of things that were useful from the recent free training for former wordsearch customers. Enough so, that i've considered paying MP for some training, despite having used Logos since the 90s.

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1124673#Comment_1124673

So far, no one has mentioned the excellent training provided by Devin Roza and Andrew Dalton

Verbum 360 Training by Devin Roza; Andrew Dalton

Verbum Advanced Search Training by Devin Roza; Andrew Dalton

Verbum Advanced Academic Training by Devin Roza; Andrew Dalton

Verbum Advanced Homiletics Training by Devin Roza; Andrew Dalton

I second all of these recommendations. I'm hoping there'll be updated training videos by them in Verbum 9 base packages.

RoseTheSeeker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1123411#Comment_1123411

I don't know what my chances are. I use all types of software and have been migrated over from WORDsearch. However I have fallen at the very first hurdle I started the very first lesson, LT122, but had to leave it for a few days. I want to go back to the beginning and start again. I see I have done 9% of the course and my only choice is to click the CONTINUE button. I have tried clicking on all sorts of places, but only end up at the card for the lesson itself. I can't see anywhere to reset it.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1127175#Comment_1127175

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Welcome to the forums Rose.

What I would suggest is on the main menu click on Tools and in the search box type "Courses"

The Courses tool will display under the heading Reference. Click on it to open up the courses Tool

On the right hand side of the course tool you should see the heading started and under that you should see a card for the LT122 course.

On the top right hand side of the card in a pale blue circle is a downward pointing arrow. Click on that to open the menu where you have the option to delete the plan. This will not remove the course from your software it only removes the started copy of the plan from your system.

Now in the Find box at the top left hand side of the course tool type in LT122. You should see the plan under the heading available.

Click on the plan to open it up and start it over again.

As you are working through the course if you have any questions about it or anything else about the software please ask on these forums. There a lots of people who have been through the journey you are starting upon are willing to assist.

RoseTheSeeker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1127186#Comment_1127186

Thank you very much Disciple II. Your answer is brilliant and easy to follow. Now I have also learned something about 'Tools'.