Timing of PrePub Releases is detrimental to Logos Sales

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This post has 49 Replies | 6 Followers

Posts 31
Luther Locklin | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Oct 6 2010 5:39 PM

Let me first say that I love Logos.  It has enhanced my bible study and prayer life in more ways than I can count.

However, I've been sitting on between $2k to $4k of prepubs for several years and they typically come out at a rate that I can accomodate.  This recent release of a large volume of prepubs left me no choice but to cancel approximately half of them.  These are lost sales to Logos because I can't afford the normal price. 

I discussed this with sales and the only option open (and I appreciate his pursuing it for me) is to take a small premium over the prepub price and build it into an extended payment plan.  I'm not against extended payment plans.  I do not believe that the answer to this issue is for me to go into debt.  I believe this is a Logos delivery at a rate their customers can absorb their product issue.  I don't know the answer myself but I can imagine several. 

In any event, it saddens me.  I've been waiting for some of these now canceled items for a long time.

The purpose of this post is to hopefully bring to Logos (perhaps Bobs) attention that they have lost sales due to this release volume.  It'd be interesting to evaluate the number and value of canceled prepubs in the last several weeks.  If there are a hundred people like me out there, they just lost $200k in sales because of release timing issues.

Luther LocklinCrying

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 6 2010 6:22 PM

Luther, I feel your pain--really!  I have had to take similar action before.  I think it is great the sales team is looking to work out a reasonable offer for you, too.  As for why it seems like they are all coming due at the same time--I know Logos has tried to ramp up their pre-pub production.  Guys like us may just have to pass--although that is hard for me because I have grown accustomed to both the great price as well as I've bought into the notion that I have to personally own such an ever expanding library.  Think about if amazon had a pre-pub list--we'd get overwhelmed at all the books we felt we needed but would have to forgo.

Anyway, I have been there.  And maybe this is an anomaly, maybe you just had more books you were interested in than before, or maybe it is Logos' ramping up production that is beyond what we can keep up with--and we'll just need to get used to it and pick the ones we really need. . .

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 6 2010 7:07 PM

I feel horrible right along with you Luther.  Unfortunately I know you're not alone (we're not alone).  I'm thrilled of course that customer service is trying to work with you. But I've had to cancel a few prepubs as well this cycle.  

Posting here should gain the attention of Logos employees - and I'm sure you've seen by now that while not every post get's a logos company response, they do read them.  

Unfortunately all I can do is join you in tears brother.  Crying

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

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Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 6 2010 9:47 PM

I'm sorry about this, and we'll invest some time in trying to find a solution.

While it would be nice to let people "hold" a pre-pub price for the future, it would destroy the value of pre-pub for us (estimating actual sales, so we can manage cash flow and plan products) if everyone started pre-ordering and then holding every product, "just in case." We'll try to come up with something that works for both of us, though.

-- Bob

 

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DominicM | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 7 2010 2:02 AM

Bob Pritchett:
'm sorry about this, and we'll invest some time in trying to find a solution

much appreciated Bob, those of us like me with no fixed income would find this helpful.. 

might I suggest you consider allowing us in the "Accounts" section to change billing date for max 30 days from release date, that should hopefully redress this issue, but keep the default billing date as it its now,

I agree they cant be held in limbo ad-nauseum - so order gets auto-removed after that window of opportunity.. and 30 days should be enough time for most people..

I believe we are looking at a minority here with minimal impact to your cash-flow, but do understand your reasonings for the current system.. 

 

Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have

Posts 31
Luther Locklin | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 7 2010 3:07 AM

Bob,

You've already done what I wanted.  You've acknowledged the issue and said you'll try.  I don't walk in your shoes and I don't understand the economics of running your business (without which we wouldn't have Logos blessing our bible study).  However, I know that you do and I trust that you'll do what you can.

Bless you and your organization,

Luther Locklin

 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 7 2010 8:46 AM

Bob Pritchett:

I'm sorry about this, and we'll invest some time in trying to find a solution.

While it would be nice to let people "hold" a pre-pub price for the future, it would destroy the value of pre-pub for us (estimating actual sales, so we can manage cash flow and plan products) if everyone started pre-ordering and then holding every product, "just in case." We'll try to come up with something that works for both of us, though.

-- Bob

 

 

Thank you Bob. 

I know from many past experiences Logos always goes the second mile (and beyond) to meet the user's needs. I apologize for myself and some others who have had to cancel Pre-Pubs on the eve of shipping dates. We had no idea the Pre-Pub department could get so efficient and productive. I certainly did not intend to break my promises to purchase everything I placed orders for.  I will diligently try to plan better and look forward to whatever ideas you may come up with for a win-win situation.

fwiw: I still think the CEO should have a Coptic lexicon on his computer, whether or not he will use it.

And Kevin Purcell was right: We need your book, "Fire Someone Today" in the Logos library. Strange not to have it available there...........

 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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Dan Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 7 2010 9:16 AM

Luther Locklin:
However, I've been sitting on between $2k to $4k of prepubs for several years and they typically come out at a rate that I can accomodate.  This recent release of a large volume of prepubs left me no choice but to cancel approximately half of them.

Luther, we are working on ways to solve this challenge for the future, and we are already spreading out titles as much as we can right now. One of the ideas we have to fix this would be a "Pastor's Piggybank" or "Credit Balance Account" where you could set up a monthly payment plan at your Logos.com account just like a savings account, then apply credit balances to any order. That way, people on budgets or monthly book allowances from their church/employer/spouse Stick out tongue could know exactly what they were paying each month and have a receipt to account for it. Hopefully that would help spread the payments out.

Right now, what I am going to do for everyone reading this, is to make a one time exception to the rules.

I will instruct the sales team to take a snapshot of all Pre-Pub orders for any customer that requests it between now and the end of October 2010. Fill up your Pre-Pub cart with as many titles as you want. "All of them" if you want...  Then, contact one of our sales representatives at 800-875-6467 and ask them to make a note on your account and take a screen shot/print out of your Pre-Pub cart on our internal systems. You should also probably take a screen shot and a print out of your Pre-Pub orders page: https://www.logos.com/user/MyPrepubs

Once you have all the Pre-Pubs you want in your cart and you have taken a screen capture and printed it out, call your sales rep and make sure they take a screen capture and make a print-out here too. Then they will place a note on your record and file your details.

Once they assure you that they have a full record of your entire cart, locked in at the best price you were able to grab, and that they have made notes on your account, you should begin deleting all the orders that you can't afford at this time.

Any time after the Pre-Pubs that you originally ordered shipped, you may call your sales rep. and ask them to place your order. You may even combine products onto orders and even use the payment plan.

All orders must be placed before the end of June 2011. You may hold off all ordering until the very last day and then add them all up onto one big payment plan for 12 months if you like, but starting July, we will wipe out all records and holds for this program, and it will expire.

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 7 2010 9:28 AM

Dan Pritchett:
Right now, what I am going to do for everyone reading this, is to make a one time exception to the rules.

Gift Dan you are so cool.  I need to talk to my wife.Indifferent

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 7 2010 9:31 AM

Dan Pritchett:
I will instruct the sales team to take a snapshot of all Pre-Pub orders for any customer that requests it between now and the end of October 2010. Fill up your Pre-Pub cart with as many titles as you want. "All of them" if you want...  Then, contact one of our sales representatives at 800-875-6467 and ask them to make a note on your account and take a screen shot/print out of your Pre-Pub cart on our internal systems. You should also probably take a screen shot and a print out of your Pre-Pub orders page: https://www.logos.com/user/MyPrepubs

WooHoo!      Thank you Dan!

That is GREAT news (for me, at least)         

I hope not to sound unappreciative. Will you allow me one last lament without incurring  your wrath??

I was in for Anchor Yale Bible Reference Library for the original Pre-Pub price of $549 ever since it was posted to the Pre-Pub page. It is now $599. Crying

Thank you for that moment in sackcloth & ashes. Now, ON TO THE PROMISED LAND!

Thomas Black:
Dan you are so cool.  I need to talk to my wife.

edit:     Uhh,      Me , too.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 5317
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 7 2010 9:34 AM

Bob Pritchett:

I'm sorry about this, and we'll invest some time in trying to find a solution.

While it would be nice to let people "hold" a pre-pub price for the future, it would destroy the value of pre-pub for us (estimating actual sales, so we can manage cash flow and plan products) if everyone started pre-ordering and then holding every product, "just in case." We'll try to come up with something that works for both of us, though.

-- Bob

 

One time when I did have to cancel a prepub it was my Anchor Bible Commentary series, and Logos was nice enough to offer it on payment plan, which allowed me, with some additional cost, since my canceled pre pub price had gone up, with the addition of another book. I know that you need PP to gauge interst and sales but if people cancel their orders at the point of release doesn't that also somewhat defeat them?

 

-Dan

PS: I also know people have the chance to get payment plans after the release, it is just sometimes the price seems excessive after release... One future solutions which I think someone else mentioned might be to have the prepub price or something close to it on the released product. For Example my Prepub price on anchor is 549, current prepub has increased to $599, If say an introductory sale price of maybe $625 were out there it would still encourage presales but give those who can;t afford a big hit all at once a chance to but it over time.

PPS: As long as I had a clear release date (expected date, I know delays can happen) I would be happy to start payments on PP the moment development starts.

Posts 348
Luuk Dondorp | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 7 2010 9:36 AM

Dan Pritchett:

Right now, what I am going to do for everyone reading this, is to make a one time exception to the rules.

Thank you! 

Luuk

 

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 7 2010 9:50 AM

Luuk Dondorp:

Dan Pritchett:

Right now, what I am going to do for everyone reading this, is to make a one time exception to the rules.

Thank you! 

I agree 101%.  And . . .Luuk . . . you look almost like a former coach of the Chicago Bears football team, Mike Ditka. . . you should cash in on that fame!

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 7 2010 9:50 AM

Dan DeVilder:

Luuk Dondorp:

Dan Pritchett:

Right now, what I am going to do for everyone reading this, is to make a one time exception to the rules.

Thank you! 

 

I agree 101%.  And . . .Luuk . . . you look almost like a former coach of the Chicago Bears football team, Mike Ditka. . . you should cash in on that fame!

. . . or maybe closer to Dan Dierdorff, another player.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 7 2010 9:59 AM

Great response, and obviously a bunch of extra trouble for Logos. Hopefully those who have been wondering what to do will discover this page.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 7 2010 10:13 AM

allow me to add another wrinkle: I went to add pre-pubs, but some of them, like the Theol. Journals, pubs today . . . would there be a way to add/snapshot/cancel prepubs for the next couple weeks, but also take part (add/cancel) in pre pubs that may be announced before the end of October? 

I mean, what if we finally get the entire John Stott collection, or the collected works of Bob Pritchett.

And . . . . does this offer also count for the EEC?  Yeah, I know, you guys try to be nice and all we can do is grab for more.  Angel  But these are a few wrinkles that may have not been considered, especially the EEC

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 7 2010 10:17 AM

Dan DeVilder:
And . . . . does this offer also count for the EEC?  Yeah, I know, you guys try to be nice and all we can do is grab for more.  Angel  But these are a few wrinkles that may have not been considered, especially the EEC
Dan has already commented that payment plans will be available somehow on the EEC.  I'm going to guess that they're hoping to have a new system up and running by then, hence the deadline on this.

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 7 2010 10:18 AM

Dan DeVilder:
allow me to add another wrinkle:

Problem solved in just seven minutes. Maybe even faster for Dan P. (Note it has some Greek stuff in it, too. Oil of Logos, perhaps.)

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 7 2010 10:22 AM

Mark A. Smith:

Dan DeVilder:
allow me to add another wrinkle:

Problem solved in just seven minutes. Maybe even faster for Dan P. (Note it has some Greek stuff in it, too. Oil of Logos, perhaps.)

. . . and you knew just where to go to get that, too, didn't you?!   Wink  (funny post, Mark)

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 7 2010 10:30 AM

Thomas Black:
Dan has already commented that payment plans will be available somehow on the EEC.  I'm going to guess that they're hoping to have a new system up and running by then, hence the deadline on this.

still--first, I was thinking that the price of that future payment plan option would not be the same is currently priced.  Second, I think some of those volumes come due (hence, charged) before June (the date set by Dan P above).  SO, conceivably . . . one could add EEC now at the best price, cancel, the volume is published (say, April), but in May/June I can tell sales "I want my EEC", so I am charged the cheapest (currently 699.95), and the previously released volumes are downloaded and I get to pay the rest of my balance on payment plan.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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