Timing of PrePub Releases is detrimental to Logos Sales

I feel horrible right along with you Luther.  Unfortunately I know you're not alone (we're not alone).  I'm thrilled of course that customer service is trying to work with you. But I've had to cancel a few prepubs as well this cycle.  

Posting here should gain the attention of Logos employees - and I'm sure you've seen by now that while not every post get's a logos company response, they do read them.  

Unfortunately all I can do is join you in tears brother.  [:'(]

Bob Pritchett said:

'm sorry about this, and we'll invest some time in trying to find a solution

much appreciated Bob, those of us like me with no fixed income would find this helpful.. 

might I suggest you consider allowing us in the "Accounts" section to change billing date for max 30 days from release date, that should hopefully redress this issue, but keep the default billing date as it its now,

I agree they cant be held in limbo ad-nauseum - so order gets auto-removed after that window of opportunity.. and 30 days should be enough time for most people..

I believe we are looking at a minority here with minimal impact to your cash-flow, but do understand your reasonings for the current system.. 

 

Bob Pritchett said:

I'm sorry about this, and we'll invest some time in trying to find a solution.

While it would be nice to let people "hold" a pre-pub price for the future, it would destroy the value of pre-pub for us (estimating actual sales, so we can manage cash flow and plan products) if everyone started pre-ordering and then holding every product, "just in case." We'll try to come up with something that works for both of us, though.

-- Bob

 

 

Thank you Bob. 

I know from many past experiences Logos always goes the second mile (and beyond) to meet the user's needs. I apologize for myself and some others who have had to cancel Pre-Pubs on the eve of shipping dates. We had no idea the Pre-Pub department could get so efficient and productive. I certainly did not intend to break my promises to purchase everything I placed orders for.  I will diligently try to plan better and look forward to whatever ideas you may come up with for a win-win situation.

fwiw: I still think the CEO should have a Coptic lexicon on his computer, whether or not he will use it.

And Kevin Purcell was right: We need your book, "Fire Someone Today" in the Logos library. Strange not to have it available there...........

 

Dan Pritchett said:

Right now, what I am going to do for everyone reading this, is to make a one time exception to the rules.

[G] Dan you are so cool.  I need to talk to my wife.[:|]

Bob Pritchett said:

I'm sorry about this, and we'll invest some time in trying to find a solution.

While it would be nice to let people "hold" a pre-pub price for the future, it would destroy the value of pre-pub for us (estimating actual sales, so we can manage cash flow and plan products) if everyone started pre-ordering and then holding every product, "just in case." We'll try to come up with something that works for both of us, though.

-- Bob

 

One time when I did have to cancel a prepub it was my Anchor Bible Commentary series, and Logos was nice enough to offer it on payment plan, which allowed me, with some additional cost, since my canceled pre pub price had gone up, with the addition of another book. I know that you need PP to gauge interst and sales but if people cancel their orders at the point of release doesn't that also somewhat defeat them?

 

-Dan

PS: I also know people have the chance to get payment plans after the release, it is just sometimes the price seems excessive after release... One future solutions which I think someone else mentioned might be to have the prepub price or something close to it on the released product. For Example my Prepub price on anchor is 549, current prepub has increased to $599, If say an introductory sale price of maybe $625 were out there it would still encourage presales but give those who can;t afford a big hit all at once a chance to but it over time.

PPS: As long as I had a clear release date (expected date, I know delays can happen) I would be happy to start payments on PP the moment development starts.

Dan DeVilder said:

And . . . . does this offer also count for the EEC?  Yeah, I know, you guys try to be nice and all we can do is grab for more.    But these are a few wrinkles that may have not been considered, especially the EEC

Dan has already commented that payment plans will be available somehow on the EEC.  I'm going to guess that they're hoping to have a new system up and running by then, hence the deadline on this.

Great Dan P.. you all rock.

Now about that idea of the Credit Balance Account, that is a great idea and I would love it for any title I might need in the future.

 

Dan Pritchett said:

Right now, what I am going to do for everyone reading this, is to make a one time exception to the rules.

Wow, Dan! You rock! Logos has awesome customer service! I have never heard of a company extending such a generous offer in response to moanings by its customers.

Dan DeVilder said:

allow me to add another wrinkle: I went to add pre-pubs, but some of them, like the Theol. Journals, pubs today . . . would there be a way to add/snapshot/cancel prepubs for the next couple weeks, but also take part (add/cancel) in pre pubs that may be announced before the end of October? 

Dan, you could add everything you want to your pre-pub basket and take a snapshot of it. Then delete what you can't afford now. Then if within the next three weeks some other pre-pub comes along that you really want, add it to your basket and remove something else that you've already locked in at the pre-pub price. Your only risk if is something you really, really want comes along between now and the end of October which is already under development and shipping soon and which by itself is more than you'll be able to afford. Not likely. If it's just now being listed on pre-pub, you'll probably have time to prepare for that expense. And adding it now (removing anything else) will lock in its pre-pub price for you without sacrificing any other pre-pub prices you'd already locked in.

Dan DeVilder said:

I mean, what if we finally get the entire John Stott collection, or the collected works of Bob Pritchett.

Oh man, would I love to have the collected works of John Stott!

The collected book-length works of Bob Pritchett are already available here, and many of his other short writings are available here and here. [:)]

Mark A. Smith said:

Problem solved in just seven minutes. Maybe even faster for Dan P. (Note it has some Greek stuff in it, too. Oil of Logos, perhaps.)

Wow Mark! I didn't know you had a humorous side to ya! ;-)

WWWWOOOOOOOHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!![8][Y][G]

So, let's see if I've got this right.  Sometime before the end of October, we pre-order anything that we might be even remotely interested in.  Then, as they become due for publication, we cancel any of them that we're not prepared to pay for at the time, and we have until the end of June 2011 to activate them again at the pre-pub price.  (Assuming of course that we follow the instructions for doing this).

With a $12,000 prepub list, I'm one of those who really appreciates Dan's incredibly generous offer. Contrary to what my friends think, I don't purchase every item that Logos publishes. In fact I ignore a lot of what comes out.

However, as a researcher and regular contributor to journals, I do purchase the scholarly items which tend to carry a significant price premium, especially the commentary sets (AYBD, Hermeneia, WBC, etc). This offer is going to help me out a lot.

Dan

Thanks for the offer! Let me just make sure we're on the same page about one detail. You write "Any time after the Pre-Pubs that you originally ordered shipped, you may call your sales rep. and ask them to place your order." and "All orders must be placed before the end of June 2011."

Well, since these are pre-pubs, it goes without saying that some of them may not necessarily have shipped by the end of June. In these cases I presume your statements above is to be understood as that we can, before the end of June, call (or e-mail) our sales reps and have them put the stuff we still want, and think we can afford, back on our pre-pub lists at the locked-in price, just as if they had been there all along. Is that correctly understood?

 

They will wipe out the snapshot items, not your ongoing prepub list.

Matthew C Jones said:

when Dan throws away our snap shot, all frozen prices are lost

The question here is 'what is an order?'. Right now, if I click on an upgrade, or if I click on a pre-pub, they are both called 'orders'. Therefore it seems to me, that if I, on June 30, e-mail my sales rep to buy a book already shipped, or if I e-mail to buy a book still gathering interest or under development, those two ought also both to be called 'orders', and therefore fulfills Dan's conditions.

Furthermore, if we have to guess which books will ship in the winter or spring (and can be bought in June for the locked-in prices), and which books will ship much later (and loose the locked-in price in July), then people won't dare to delete items, and Logos will end up sending books into development that have only 80% real financial backing.

This, of course, would not mean that every locked-in item that hadn't shipped would stay locked-in. Just those you manually order again, with the same discretion you normally use when ordering pre-pubs. The rest will indeed be lost "when Dan throws away our snap shot". Or, in other words, when July comes, Logos should be able to trust that remaining pre-pubs will have the same, or lower, cancellation rates as is normally the case. If they're higher, we've misused their trust. Fair?

Matthew

Since Dan and I hit the 'Post' button within seconds of each other, and the forum software decided to change the page exactly between our two posts, you obviously missed that Dan has already answered.

Dan

Has Logos come up with any payment plan setup for prepubs as you refer to in your note?

Thanks

 

 

Dan Pritchett said:

Steve, we are getting closer. There is a multi-phase project rolling out right now. Phase one is already complete, and we now have excellent credit balance accounting and tracking within our internal systems.

Does this mean we can call up CS and add money to our account for future purchases?

Dan Pritchett said:

Future phases will include displaying credit balances to the user accounts at Logos.com, allowing customers to apply credit balances against all different types of orders, splitting payments between credits and credit cards, sales of gift cards/credit balances, and subscriptions to regular charges to your credit card in order to create a credit balance to be spent in the future. Think of it like a subscription to a monthly purchase of a gift card kept on account, or a "Christmas Club" or "Layaway" type system.

Any idea of a time-frame for these future phases?

 

Dan,

It sounds good.  Look forward to seeing it implemented in the near future.

Thanks

Steve