Printing versus Copy/Paste Text - Explanation Please

Page 1 of 2 (36 items) 1 2 Next >
This post has 35 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 5561
Forum MVP
Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Nov 10 2010 1:56 AM

Hi Devs,

I can understand the complexity of providing direct printing however I would have thought that the simple;

highlight text–copy text to clip board–paste text elsewhere

would be quite easy to provide in every panel. This function being almost universal in every other application that I use.

Do I misunderstand the situation?

What is the reason that panels like the search results and cross references have their text un-selectable?

Thanks

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 116
B. J. Clarke | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 10 2010 1:06 PM

Yes Yes Yes

Posts 1861
LogosEmployee
Tom Philpot (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 10 2010 3:40 PM

Mike Binks:
What is the reason that panels like the search results and cross references have their text un-selectable?

I believe that part of the reason on Windows was for performance, but I wasn't party to the initial design discussion on Windows. Corresponding behavior on Mac was built because of the way Windows did it.

Mike Binks:

however I would have thought that the simple;

highlight text–copy text to clip board–paste text elsewhere

would be quite easy to provide in every panel.

Just because a feature is common, doesn't mean it's necessarily easy to implement. We do a lot of custom drawing both on Windows and Mac and implementing selection in a way that "just works" is a non trivial task.

 

Mobile Development Team Lead

Posts 19333
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 10 2010 5:40 PM

Tom, since there is a way to copy text to the clipboard via the Print/Export command, I'm satisfied with that for most panels now. But one area that it still bothers me we cannot select and copy text is from the resource info panel. That text should be selectable, as it was in Logos 3. Any idea whether this is already on the internal dev list of things to address? Thanks!

Posts 5561
Forum MVP
Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 11 2010 12:59 AM

Rosie Perera:
Tom, since there is a way to copy text to the clipboard via the Print/Export command, I'm satisfied with that for most panels now.

Arh Rosie,

I am in conversation on another thread about this with a user who would just love to do this.

Would you mind dragging out your Mac and posting a few screen shots on how to do this - say with the results of the 'Cross References' panel of the Passage Guide?

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 5561
Forum MVP
Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 11 2010 1:20 AM

Tom Philpot:
I believe that part of the reason on Windows was for performance, but I wasn't party to the initial design discussion on Windows. Corresponding behavior on Mac was built because of the way Windows did it.

Which of course begs the (probably rhetorical) question; 'If you were building the Mac application from the ground up' would you have done it that way?

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 19333
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 11 2010 1:33 AM

Mike Binks:

Arh Rosie,

I am in conversation on another thread about this with a user who would just love to do this.

Would you mind dragging out your Mac and posting a few screen shots on how to do this

Arh, so sorry. I keep forgetting this is the Mac forum. No Print/Export command yet. It's coming, though!

Posts 5561
Forum MVP
Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 11 2010 2:29 AM

Rosie Perera:
Arh, so sorry. I keep forgetting this is the Mac forum. No Print/Export command yet. It's coming, though!

I guess that means I can take my tongue out of my cheek now?Wink

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 191
Sharon | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 11 2010 6:21 AM

Mike Binks:
I am in conversation on another thread about this with a user who would just love to do this.

I think I know that user!  Wink

I found this, but I don't understand if it includes or excludes being able to export a list of Bible verses generated by a search?

Thanks for any clarification!

Shaorn

wordcenterministries.org

Posts 191
Sharon | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 11 2010 6:24 AM

Oops!  I forgot to copy and paste what I found!  Wink

 

Print/Export

  • "Print/Export" option is available on panel menus (or Ctrl+P) for most features, including resources. (Exceptions: Copy Bible Verses, Home, Layouts, and Library.)
  • Resources, Documents, etc. may be printed or exported to various file formats (depending on the feature). File types may include Rich Text Format (Word, etc.), Text Document, Web Page (HTML), Spreadsheet (Excel, etc.), XPS Document, and Image.
  • "Bibliography only" is integrated with print/export panel for Clippings and Collections. Citation file types are available for export: BibTeX, Refer/BiblX, and RIS.
  • WYSIWYG printing ("Print as shown on screen") is available for some features.
  • Zoom in and out of Print Preview using mouse scroll wheel with Ctrl key held down, or using Ctrl+plus(+) and Ctrl+minus(-) keyboard shortcuts.

 

wordcenterministries.org

Posts 1246
David Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 11 2010 10:53 AM

Mike Binks:
'If you were building the Mac application from the ground up' would you have done it that way?

This question contains a false premise: it assumes that such an application would be far enough along by this point for such a decision to have been made. Portions of our codebase have been around for nearly 20 years; the effort required to rewrite all of that from scratch (and the never-ending stream of incompatibilities that would come along as a result) make this question not even worth pondering: if we built the app from the ground up, there would be no app.

David Mitchell
Development Lead
Faithlife

Posts 698
LogosEmployee
Cameron Watters (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 11 2010 10:58 AM

Mike Binks:
Which of course begs the (probably rhetorical) question; 'If you were building the Mac application from the ground up' would you have done it that way?

I don't know. We built the Windows app from the ground up on and it has the same limitation, so it's entirely possible.

What I *do* know is this: text selection & copy/paste is not an "automagically, for-free" aspect of displaying text "the Mac way". I also know that the lack of selectable text in the Mac version is unrelated to our use of code shared with the Windows project. Our UI is written in Cocoa.

Similarly, a cursory review of two or three Apple applications (including Mail and iCal) indicates that there is plenty of text that cannot be selected for copy/paste and/or selectable text that isn't easily selectable. That doesn't mean it's not desirable for Logos or those apps and it doesn't mean that I think Logos is equivalent to iCal or Mail; it does mean that the assertion that "a real Mac app would get this for free" is trivially refuted.

Director of Engineering for Enterprise and Operations

Posts 19333
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 11 2010 11:46 AM

Cameron Watters:
What I *do* know is this: text selection & copy/paste is not an "automagically, for-free" aspect of displaying text "the Mac way". I also know that the lack of selectable text in the Mac version is unrelated to our use of code shared with the Windows project.

I'm guessing that lack of text selection on both Windows and Mac is a result of a design decision early on -- to draw directly to the screen and let the system's display engine manage where that text is and what happens to it after it's on the screen (repainting it after it gets covered up or scrolling it, for example). Speaking from experience as one of the developers of Microsoft Word, in order to provide selectable text, the software would need to keep its own mapping of what is on the screen where so that when a user clicked and dragged on text, you could convert the screen coordinates back to location within the text and provide selection capabilities. It's not impossible, but I know it would be very difficult to add, because it wasn't planned into the design from the beginning.

Posts 191
Sharon | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 11 2010 12:08 PM

Hi David and Cameron,

Would you mind reading the two posts above your two posts?  I'd really appreciate any answers you can give me.

Thank you,

Sharon

wordcenterministries.org

Posts 1246
David Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 11 2010 2:26 PM

There's currently no print/export support in Logos 4 for Mac at the moment. I'm working on it right now, and both features will be made available at the same time. The search panel will support this feature.

David Mitchell
Development Lead
Faithlife

Posts 191
Sharon | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 11 2010 2:49 PM

Thank you.

May I ask you one more question?

When I talked with tech support this week I was told that print/export would not be available until next year, but it should be available within one year.

Since you are working on it as I type,  Smile  my question is - can you give me a little better time handle than 'within one year'?

As much detail as possible will be very much appreciated.

Thanks again,

Sharon

wordcenterministries.org

Posts 191
Sharon | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 11 2010 3:00 PM

David, I want to clarify something and ask an additional question.

Even simple copy and paste would help me immeasurably at this time (while waiting for print/export).  Is there anyway that can be done on the search panel, or say, on the list of cross-references listed when you use passage guide.  (As in: use passage guide for Isaiah 15-16 and be able to copy the 8 lines of scripture addresses using copy and paste function).

Thank you for being helpful.

Sharon

wordcenterministries.org

Posts 1145
Juanita | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 11 2010 3:04 PM

Great questions, Sharon!

Posts 1246
David Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 11 2010 3:06 PM

Sharon:

When I talked with tech support this week I was told that print/export would not be available until next year, but it should be available within one year.

Since you are working on it as I type,  Smile  my question is - can you give me a little better time handle than 'within one year'?

I'm not sure where customer service is getting their information. Generally speaking, we avoid providing such estimates, as they are nearly always wrong (just look at some of the older forum threads). That said, while I wouldn't necessarily disagree with the estimate you have been given, I wouldn't want to narrow it down, either. It is, however, my top priority, at present.

 

David Mitchell
Development Lead
Faithlife

Posts 191
Sharon | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 11 2010 5:01 PM

David,

It was not customer service, it was tech support, which told me that.

To me, it equates with trading in a fabulous Lexus RX330 for a newer (and supposedly more luxurious) model - only to find out, after purchase, that it does not have any sound system in it and that, although Lexus promises me they will eventually get it installed for me, they will not give me an estimate of time less than one year. 

It has come to my attention that Logos gave a particular quarter of the year as to 'when' for windows.  Why is that information not available to those with a Mac?

Surely you must have meetings with your employers and surely the topic of 'how long' must be discussed.  I am not asking you to give me a promise, just the information that you must know, that you must think, that you must be working toward - your best guess.

Sincerely,

Sharon

 

 

 

wordcenterministries.org

Page 1 of 2 (36 items) 1 2 Next > | RSS