Bizarre question

Okay... here's an odd question perhaps.... I've been thinking about this alot recently, and I don't know if anyone has ever addressed it.

Most of us as pastors/teachers/scholars have amassed a very large volume of books that represents quite a substantial investment. When the day comes that we pass on, most of us intend to leave our libraries to our children or some other recipient who would benefit from what we have painstakingly accumulated through the years.

Many of us are now in an age where we are transforming our physical libraries into virtual libraries, and making any new purchases in virtual (digital/electronic) format. Not intending to be morbid, but what happens to our collections once we die? Can we bequeath our libraries to our children? What rights to our electronic libraries are legally transferrable? And if my Logos library is essentially accessed by my account information... do we "pass on" this account information to our heirs? Maybe if I simply provide my username and password to my heir in my will, my heir can access my books... but after 50 years or so, might not Logos become suspicious? ;-) And who is to say Logos will still be around 50 years from now? (I certainly hope they will be).

Seriously, this is concerning me quite a bit. The books that I buy through Logos (or replace) don't cost me substantially less. I have thousands of dollars invested in my electronic books, and the financial investment is growing all of the time. It doesn't seem right that we would have the right to pass on physical books for which we invested, but not our books in a digital format (that would be kind of like the ancients saying you can pass on your scrolls, but not a codex... or your handwritten codex, but not your Gutenberg Bible... a change in technology shouldn't eliminate your ownership rights to the material).

And God forbid, what happens if Logos ever closes up shop in the distant future? Will they, hopefully, provide "Logos 50 - The Final Update," deactivating all of the (increasing number of) features that are accessed now in the cloud, and make it all self-contained on our computing devices at that time?

Perhaps this has been answered long ago by someone. I don't know why, but its giving me some pause about investing further into Logos. Any one have any comments to help me sleep better at night? ;-)

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Floyd Johnson

what happens to our collections once we die?

If it were not so late, I would look for the note that says it directly, but as best I remember you can transfer a book, a set of books, or your entire collection, to another person for a cost of $20 per transfer. A book - $20; A set of books - $20; your whole library - $20. Somebody will post the original post - but this gets you started on an answer.

EmileB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/220720#Comment_220720

THANK YOU FLOYD!! Yes, if anyone can post that reference, that will really ease my mind. At any rate, I'll sleep better tonight. Thanks!

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/220721#Comment_220721

Hi Emile

This is covered in the Logos 4 End User Licence Agreement at http://www.logos.com/ArticleViewer/2090 in the section headed Transfers.

Graham

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/220724#Comment_220724

Hi Emile

This is covered in the Logos 4 End User Licence Agreement at http://www.logos.com/ArticleViewer/2090 in the section headed Transfers.

Graham

This clause is very vague and only addresses a living licensee transferring to another person.

I would like to know how to bequeath my Logos library in my will. The present process requires my confirmation to complete the transfer. After I pass on I will not be answering any phone calls or emails from Logos Customer Service to confirm the transfer.......[;)]

My father raised this point with me recently and is of the opinion transferability after death is not assured by this clause in the EULA. (He is not a judge or practicing lawyer but he did attend law school after seminary and before going to the mission field.)

How about it, Logos legal department? Can I will a license transfer to someone else?

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/220728#Comment_220728

Hi Matthew

Fair point.

My guess (as a non-lawyer) is that this is something which an executor would be able to accomplish as part of executing the will and that Logos would accept this.

However, in this situation, my guess is of no value whatsoever so agree we need Logos legal team to address this!

Graham

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/220730#Comment_220730

I trust Bob and present company but the wording "Logos, at it's sole discretion" is bothersome terminology.

Ted Hans

Perhaps this has been answered long ago by someone. I don't know why, but its giving me some pause about investing further into Logos. Any one have any comments to help me sleep better at night? ;-)

See here, hope this helps? http://blog.logos.com/archives/2005/12/heirloom_books.html

Ted

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/220733#Comment_220733

See here, hope this helps? http://blog.logos.com/archives/2005/12/heirloom_books.html

That helps a lot Ted. Thank you.

But did you notice it mentions only 1500 books? I guess nobody could foresee a collection of 150,000 books.

Ted Hans

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/220735#Comment_220735

But did you notice it mentions only 1500 books?

With you at almost 5000 resources I can see the worry[:P]. That said I agree with your father on the question of legality, the Logos EULA does not guarantee such. This is b/cos of the way the EULA has been worded,though I think they(Logos) will honour such a request.

Blessings

Ted

Edit: The Logos EULA is using VERY careful language at it's best, they can choose to honour or not to. Like I said previously I think they will honour such a request. Perhaps they have chosen to word the EULA in such a way as to take into account exceptional and very rare cases.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/220735#Comment_220735

See here, hope this helps? http://blog.logos.com/archives/2005/12/heirloom_books.html

That helps a lot Ted. Thank you.

But did you notice it mentions only 1500 books? I guess nobody could foresee a collection of 150,000 books.

That makes me daydream (can you call it "daydreaming" at 4AM??) about the possibility of Logos selling collections that are electronic versions of the physical libraries that some great theologians left behind when they died. Imagine being able to own all the books that C.S. Lewis or Dietrich Bonhoeffer had read and owned (we first need a library of the books they wrote though).

Incidentally, check out this project which is trying to make a searchable database of all the books C.S. Lewis owned and read. Unfortunately it failed to reach its fundraising goal, so I'm not sure what the status of the project is. But Logos would be in a much better position to get this thing done than a grad student in English literature would be.

And here is the bibliography of The Lewis Library ("books from the personal library of C.S. Lewis, some containing underlining and marginal notes") housed at the Marion E. Wade Center at Wheaton College.

There are catalogs available of the books that were read and/or owned by various other theologians, too.

Fun to daydream about, but these collections would probably only be of interest to people doing serious research on a particular theologian's life and influences.

TCBlack

Emile,

Somewhere on this forum is a post by Bob Pritchett (CEO) which I know will assuage all your concerns...

I know it's there, I just can't find it yet. But one which is very close is this one:

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/87/677.aspx#677

I'll continue seeking the one I want because it is a direct response to your question which HAS been asked before. <smile>

Jim L. West

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/220753#Comment_220753

I do remember the post that Thomas was speaking about, don't know where it is. However, I just attended a Morris Proctor Camp Logos and Morris made the statement that Logos can be passed on to your children (or to whomever you choose?). Maybe, not direct out of Bob's mouth but very close.

Floyd Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/220753#Comment_220753

I did find the following this morning:

[quote]Q: How do I Transfer my Licenses?

A: Licenses for shippable products on CD-ROM or DVD-ROM, which come with a Serial Number, can be transferred from one person to another. (See the EULA for more information.) Unlocks can only be transferred as part of a full license transfer. There will be a processing fee charged on all transfers which is subject to change without notice. As of 6/17/09 the fee is equal to $20.00 per transfer. Either party involved with the transfer can pay the fee. We require the transfer request in writing (email is accepted) from the person to whom the software is currently registered. Please provide the following information:

The name and contact information of the current user, including email address.

The Libronix Customer ID of the current user. (This can be found under Help | About Libronix DLS.)

The name and contact information of the person receiving the license, including email address.

Recipient's Libronix Customer ID, if they have one.

The product name(s) and serial number(s).

Note: Licenses for unlocked, downloadable products are non-transferable.

http://www.logos.com/support/lbs/faq#transferlicenses

Though the information is dated (note the mention of Libronix), it is accessible using a search of "transfer" from the LOGOS home page. This does not bode well for Logos V.4 - I hope the policy or technology has changed. I hope that this does not alter what I posted earlier.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/220760#Comment_220760

Hi Floyd

The reference to the Logos 4 EULA and other links above would suggest that this does not relate to the V4 model.

Graham

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/220752#Comment_220752

That makes me daydream (can you call it "daydreaming" at 4AM??) about the possibility of Logos selling collections that are electronic versions of the physical libraries that some great theologians left behind when they died. Imagine being able to own all the books that C.S. Lewis or Dietrich Bonhoeffer had read and owned (we first need a library of the books they wrote though).

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/220760#Comment_220760

Though the information is dated (note the mention of Libronix), it is accessible using a search of "transfer" from the LOGOS home page. This does not bode well for Logos V.4 - I hope the policy or technology has changed. I hope that this does not alter what I posted earlier.

Bob Pritchett has amended that policy to allow the transfer of downloaded Logos 4 licenses also. The one thing I am positive about is you can not separate resources that were sold in a bundle under one license.

Ted Weis

What a morbid conversation this has been! [;)]

To me, what would happen to the physical library of a deceased person is the same thing that should happen with their electronic library. It should be freely transfer to another.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/220851#Comment_220851

To me, what would happen to the physical library of a deceased person is the same thing that should happen with their electronic library. It should be freely transfer to another.

The small fee of $20 seems fair to pay for the cost of administrative work on Logos's end to transfer the licenses to another account. There isn't any corresponding reality with a physical library in someone's estate, but you do have to pay for legal help with the will and all that, so the fee seems within reason.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/220851#Comment_220851

To me, what would happen to the physical library of a deceased person is the same thing that should happen with their electronic library. It should be freely transfer to another.

The EULA to digital products has more in common with a rent-controlled lease in New York City than a collection of hardback books.

What a morbid conversation this has been!

Seems it has gotten lively over the weekend. [C]

EmileB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/220855#Comment_220855

I certainly don't mind paying an administrative processing fee of $20 to ensure that my child will receive my legacy of several thousand books (I think that's a fantastic and gracious plan). And I would perfectly understand and agree with a policy of limiting a transfer to a one-time, en masse transfer, rather than breaking up bundles. I'd like to see some definitive statement, however, that the executor of my estate can send a letter to make that request.
I guess I'm still not overly comfortable with having so much of my investment dependent upon the "cloud". I have great trust in Bob and the current crew at Logos (truly), but where might Logos be 25 years from now?

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/220863#Comment_220863

I certainly don't mind paying an administrative processing fee of $20 to ensure that my child will receive my legacy of several thousand books (I think that's a fantastic and gracious plan). And I would perfectly understand and agree with a policy of limiting a transfer to a one-time, en masse transfer, rather than breaking up bundles. I'd like to see some definitive statement, however, that the executor of my estate can send a letter to make that request.
I guess I'm still not overly comfortable with having so much of my investment dependent upon the "cloud". I have great trust in Bob and the current crew at Logos (truly), but where might Logos be 25 years from now?

Probably in the hands of Roberta and Daniela.

Lynden O. Williams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/220863#Comment_220863

Like those who have gone before me, I am certain that Logos will honour your request. Write or call them in the morning.