Bizarre question
Okay... here's an odd question perhaps.... I've been thinking about this alot recently, and I don't know if anyone has ever addressed it.
Most of us as pastors/teachers/scholars have amassed a very large volume of books that represents quite a substantial investment. When the day comes that we pass on, most of us intend to leave our libraries to our children or some other recipient who would benefit from what we have painstakingly accumulated through the years.
Many of us are now in an age where we are transforming our physical libraries into virtual libraries, and making any new purchases in virtual (digital/electronic) format. Not intending to be morbid, but what happens to our collections once we die? Can we bequeath our libraries to our children? What rights to our electronic libraries are legally transferrable? And if my Logos library is essentially accessed by my account information... do we "pass on" this account information to our heirs? Maybe if I simply provide my username and password to my heir in my will, my heir can access my books... but after 50 years or so, might not Logos become suspicious? ;-) And who is to say Logos will still be around 50 years from now? (I certainly hope they will be).
Seriously, this is concerning me quite a bit. The books that I buy through Logos (or replace) don't cost me substantially less. I have thousands of dollars invested in my electronic books, and the financial investment is growing all of the time. It doesn't seem right that we would have the right to pass on physical books for which we invested, but not our books in a digital format (that would be kind of like the ancients saying you can pass on your scrolls, but not a codex... or your handwritten codex, but not your Gutenberg Bible... a change in technology shouldn't eliminate your ownership rights to the material).
And God forbid, what happens if Logos ever closes up shop in the distant future? Will they, hopefully, provide "Logos 50 - The Final Update," deactivating all of the (increasing number of) features that are accessed now in the cloud, and make it all self-contained on our computing devices at that time?
Perhaps this has been answered long ago by someone. I don't know why, but its giving me some pause about investing further into Logos. Any one have any comments to help me sleep better at night? ;-)
Comments
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EmileB said:
what happens to our collections once we die?
If it were not so late, I would look for the note that says it directly, but as best I remember you can transfer a book, a set of books, or your entire collection, to another person for a cost of $20 per transfer. A book - $20; A set of books - $20; your whole library - $20. Somebody will post the original post - but this gets you started on an answer.
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
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THANK YOU FLOYD!! Yes, if anyone can post that reference, that will really ease my mind. At any rate, I'll sleep better tonight. Thanks!
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Hi Emile
This is covered in the Logos 4 End User Licence Agreement at http://www.logos.com/ArticleViewer/2090 in the section headed Transfers.
Graham
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Graham Criddle said:
Hi Emile
This is covered in the Logos 4 End User Licence Agreement at http://www.logos.com/ArticleViewer/2090 in the section headed Transfers.
Graham
This clause is very vague and only addresses a living licensee transferring to another person.
I would like to know how to bequeath my Logos library in my will. The present process requires my confirmation to complete the transfer. After I pass on I will not be answering any phone calls or emails from Logos Customer Service to confirm the transfer.......[;)]
My father raised this point with me recently and is of the opinion transferability after death is not assured by this clause in the EULA. (He is not a judge or practicing lawyer but he did attend law school after seminary and before going to the mission field.)
How about it, Logos legal department? Can I will a license transfer to someone else?
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Hi Matthew
Fair point.
My guess (as a non-lawyer) is that this is something which an executor would be able to accomplish as part of executing the will and that Logos would accept this.
However, in this situation, my guess is of no value whatsoever so agree we need Logos legal team to address this!
Graham
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I trust Bob and present company but the wording "Logos, at it's sole discretion" is bothersome terminology.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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EmileB said:
Perhaps this has been answered long ago by someone. I don't know why, but its giving me some pause about investing further into Logos. Any one have any comments to help me sleep better at night? ;-)
See here, hope this helps? http://blog.logos.com/archives/2005/12/heirloom_books.html
Ted
Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ
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Ted Hans said:
See here, hope this helps? http://blog.logos.com/archives/2005/12/heirloom_books.html
That helps a lot Ted. Thank you.
But did you notice it mentions only 1500 books? I guess nobody could foresee a collection of 150,000 books.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Matthew C Jones said:
But did you notice it mentions only 1500 books?
With you at almost 5000 resources I can see the worry[:P]. That said I agree with your father on the question of legality, the Logos EULA does not guarantee such. This is b/cos of the way the EULA has been worded,though I think they(Logos) will honour such a request.
Blessings
Ted
Edit: The Logos EULA is using VERY careful language at it's best, they can choose to honour or not to. Like I said previously I think they will honour such a request. Perhaps they have chosen to word the EULA in such a way as to take into account exceptional and very rare cases.
Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ
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Matthew C Jones said:Ted Hans said:
See here, hope this helps? http://blog.logos.com/archives/2005/12/heirloom_books.html
That helps a lot Ted. Thank you.
But did you notice it mentions only 1500 books? I guess nobody could foresee a collection of 150,000 books.
That makes me daydream (can you call it "daydreaming" at 4AM??) about the possibility of Logos selling collections that are electronic versions of the physical libraries that some great theologians left behind when they died. Imagine being able to own all the books that C.S. Lewis or Dietrich Bonhoeffer had read and owned (we first need a library of the books they wrote though).
Incidentally, check out this project which is trying to make a searchable database of all the books C.S. Lewis owned and read. Unfortunately it failed to reach its fundraising goal, so I'm not sure what the status of the project is. But Logos would be in a much better position to get this thing done than a grad student in English literature would be.
And here is the bibliography of The Lewis Library ("books from the personal library of C.S. Lewis, some containing underlining and marginal notes") housed at the Marion E. Wade Center at Wheaton College.
There are catalogs available of the books that were read and/or owned by various other theologians, too.
Fun to daydream about, but these collections would probably only be of interest to people doing serious research on a particular theologian's life and influences.
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Emile,
Somewhere on this forum is a post by Bob Pritchett (CEO) which I know will assuage all your concerns...
I know it's there, I just can't find it yet. But one which is very close is this one:
http://community.logos.com/forums/p/87/677.aspx#677
I'll continue seeking the one I want because it is a direct response to your question which HAS been asked before. <smile>
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
I do remember the post that Thomas was speaking about, don't know where it is. However, I just attended a Morris Proctor Camp Logos and Morris made the statement that Logos can be passed on to your children (or to whomever you choose?). Maybe, not direct out of Bob's mouth but very close.
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I did find the following this morning:
[quote]Q: How do I Transfer my Licenses?
A: Licenses for shippable products on CD-ROM or DVD-ROM, which come with a Serial Number, can be transferred from one person to another. (See the EULA for more information.) Unlocks can only be transferred as part of a full license transfer. There will be a processing fee charged on all transfers which is subject to change without notice. As of 6/17/09 the fee is equal to $20.00 per transfer. Either party involved with the transfer can pay the fee. We require the transfer request in writing (email is accepted) from the person to whom the software is currently registered. Please provide the following information:
- The name and contact information of the current user, including email address.
- The Libronix Customer ID of the current user. (This can be found under Help | About Libronix DLS.)
- The name and contact information of the person receiving the license, including email address.
- Recipient's Libronix Customer ID, if they have one.
- The product name(s) and serial number(s).
Note: Licenses for unlocked, downloadable products are non-transferable.
http://www.logos.com/support/lbs/faq#transferlicenses
Though the information is dated (note the mention of Libronix), it is accessible using a search of "transfer" from the LOGOS home page. This does not bode well for Logos V.4 - I hope the policy or technology has changed. I hope that this does not alter what I posted earlier.
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
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Hi Floyd
The reference to the Logos 4 EULA and other links above would suggest that this does not relate to the V4 model.
Graham
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Rosie Perera said:
That makes me daydream (can you call it "daydreaming" at 4AM??) about the possibility of Logos selling collections that are electronic versions of the physical libraries that some great theologians left behind when they died. Imagine being able to own all the books that C.S. Lewis or Dietrich Bonhoeffer had read and owned (we first need a library of the books they wrote though).
A From what time may they recite the Shema in the evening?
B From the hour that the priests enter [their homes] to eat their heave offering,
C "until the end of the first watch"—
D the words of R. Eliezer.
E But sages say, "Until midnight."
F Rabban Gamaliel says, "Until the rise of dawn."
Neusner, Jacob. The Mishnah : A New Translation, Berakhot. New Haven, CT: Yale University Press, 1988.
From this I would assume that it can only be called "daydreaming" if dawn has come.george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Floyd Johnson said:
Though the information is dated (note the mention of Libronix), it is accessible using a search of "transfer" from the LOGOS home page. This does not bode well for Logos V.4 - I hope the policy or technology has changed. I hope that this does not alter what I posted earlier.
Bob Pritchett has amended that policy to allow the transfer of downloaded Logos 4 licenses also. The one thing I am positive about is you can not separate resources that were sold in a bundle under one license.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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What a morbid conversation this has been! [;)]
To me, what would happen to the physical library of a deceased person is the same thing that should happen with their electronic library. It should be freely transfer to another.
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Ted Weis said:
To me, what would happen to the physical library of a deceased person is the same thing that should happen with their electronic library. It should be freely transfer to another.
The small fee of $20 seems fair to pay for the cost of administrative work on Logos's end to transfer the licenses to another account. There isn't any corresponding reality with a physical library in someone's estate, but you do have to pay for legal help with the will and all that, so the fee seems within reason.
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Ted Weis said:
To me, what would happen to the physical library of a deceased person is the same thing that should happen with their electronic library. It should be freely transfer to another.
The EULA to digital products has more in common with a rent-controlled lease in New York City than a collection of hardback books.
Ted Weis said:What a morbid conversation this has been!
Seems it has gotten lively over the weekend. [C]
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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I certainly don't mind paying an administrative processing fee of $20 to ensure that my child will receive my legacy of several thousand books (I think that's a fantastic and gracious plan). And I would perfectly understand and agree with a policy of limiting a transfer to a one-time, en masse transfer, rather than breaking up bundles. I'd like to see some definitive statement, however, that the executor of my estate can send a letter to make that request.
I guess I'm still not overly comfortable with having so much of my investment dependent upon the "cloud". I have great trust in Bob and the current crew at Logos (truly), but where might Logos be 25 years from now?0 -
EmileB said:
I certainly don't mind paying an administrative processing fee of $20 to ensure that my child will receive my legacy of several thousand books (I think that's a fantastic and gracious plan). And I would perfectly understand and agree with a policy of limiting a transfer to a one-time, en masse transfer, rather than breaking up bundles. I'd like to see some definitive statement, however, that the executor of my estate can send a letter to make that request.
I guess I'm still not overly comfortable with having so much of my investment dependent upon the "cloud". I have great trust in Bob and the current crew at Logos (truly), but where might Logos be 25 years from now?Probably in the hands of Roberta and Daniela.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Like those who have gone before me, I am certain that Logos will honour your request. Write or call them in the morning.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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