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This post has 145 Replies | 9 Followers

Posts 8
Wes Porter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 7:41 AM

Hi Robert,

Thanks, I appreciate the kind feedback.

Wes

 

Posts 71
Colin Thornby | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 1:06 PM

Joe Miller:

Colin Thornby:
I just think it is possible to communicate in an up-front, honest and straightforward way which leads to people saying "OK, I can deal with that."
I think you will find that when you ask questions, Bob will chime in when we (some of the Beta testers) don't give the right answer.  We have asked most of these questions over the past 8 weeks, and there have been many THOUSANDS of post that Bob has read and replied to.  Right now, we are trying to help give the best direct answers we can to help during the busy time, but still you see Bob is in here answering with, IMHO, very direct answers.  Can they do a better job?  Sure, and I think Logos has responded very well to critique and made improvements to do better at communicating their position. Point being, ask questions, make challenges, and Logos will read and respond with integrity.  

Well, I think I've asked questions and made challenges. Some of the challenges have been met with assertions, but the questions haven't been answered, to the best of my knowledge. I'm sorry, but I think that some of this (the marketing currently around the Mac product) is in the realm of marketing spin. There's nothing wrong with that, nor is there anything wrong with the tactic of putting out an Alpha to quieten the crowd. It is just that it would be nice to actually have an answer to the reasonable question: when will we have a Beta.

Only my opinion.

Posts 74
Monroe R Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 1:24 PM

Spoken like a true member of the marketing team!

Rich+

Posts 2778
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 1:30 PM

Colin Thornby:
It is just that it would be nice to actually have an answer to the reasonable question: when will we have a Beta.
I am with you on that.  I would LOVE to know a timetable, but I doubt it will be made available. Even when we were doing the private Beta, no one knew the timetable for release.  Those of us who agreed to blog, were only give a week advance on the secret launch date and had to agree to an NDA on that information.  

Still, it would be nice :-)

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 1:39 PM

Bob Pritchett:

Hey, I'm not the one who chose the computer that's different from what 90% of the world uses... 

<nervous smile>

Just kidding. We love the Mac.

I really hope the Mac users get a highly polished, fine tuned version of Logos 4 soon. It does sound a little like the prodigal's brother jealously complaining. How about we all rejoice in the release of Logos 4 Windows and realize the "can do" team at Logos is now setting their sights on Mac?

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 1:50 PM

Colin Thornby:

It is just that it would be nice to actually have an answer to the reasonable question: when will we have a Beta.

Colin

I believe that Logos got badly burned with date-setting on the original release of Logos Mac (I was anticipating having it for Christmas 2006 or was it 7). Date-setting is probably anathema.

Jack

Posts 2778
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 2:00 PM

I think it was Chrismas '05 Jack LOL

Logos is criticized if they release a date and if they withhold it.  Either way, someone is going to complain that Logos is "mean" and does not run their business the "right" way.  

For me, I would love to know the timeline, but I respect their decision to not share that info knowing they will get burned either way.

PS

I am not writing this in criticism of anyone above, so no flaming me please.  I am only making a general observation based on the past 10 years of experience on the forums/newsgroups.  

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Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 2:34 PM

Colin Thornby:
It is just that it would be nice to actually have an answer to the reasonable question: when will we have a Beta.

Depends on what you call a beta. A stable version with all the features and just a few remaining bugs to hunt? No way to know.

A better version than today? Probably Friday.

Our goal is to do a new drop every two weeks until it's done. Which one of them represents the switch from Alpha to Beta is a subjective call. And I don't know how long it'll take before everything's there, but I can assure you we're on it at this very moment. (I'm typing in the forums, but the devs are coding!)

Posts 71
Colin Thornby | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 2:43 PM

JackCaviness:

Colin Thornby:

It is just that it would be nice to actually have an answer to the reasonable question: when will we have a Beta.

Colin

I believe that Logos got badly burned with date-setting on the original release of Logos Mac (I was anticipating having it for Christmas 2006 or was it 7). Date-setting is probably anathema.

Jack

I get that, I really do. Where the rankle comes for me is that I have a product (Logos for Mac) which doesn't do what I was told it would do when I bought it. Development has stopped on that - it will never do what it was advertised to do, as far as I'm concerned. In order to get the functionality I need I have to use the Windows version or wait for Logos 4. I thus don't know when I'll have a product I can use, despite the money I've paid for it. I think saying "well, the Windows version is good, use that while we work on the Mac version" is helpful for me - because I can do that - but not for other users who might not want to shell out money for Windows and virtualisation software.

Logos decided to enter the Mac market, presumably for business reasons. I doubt they did it as an act of altruism (nor would I expect them to). Saying something like "well, you're only 20% of the computing market" is silly if you decide you're going to develop for that market - you either do it, or don't - if you do it, then you do it properly. Personally, I don't think either Logos for Mac 1 or this implementation so far is properly. Only my opinion.

I have worked as the CEO of much larger companies than Logos, with more complex products and services. We stuck to the following dictum: Only promise what you can deliver, and deliver what you promise. That is what informs me when I say "be up front".

I suspect that Logos' credibility with Mac people who would like to use their product will be pretty poor when they click www.macbiblesoftware.com and get taken to a page which promises a finished product. They then click the Logos Bible Software for Mac tab and find a page that says "sorry, we only have an Alpha". It is a good way of alienating potential users, who, like a friend of mine who hasn't got a base package said "why should I pay to Alpha test their software?". If I hadn't invested lots of money in Logos resources I'd probably be going with a competitor's product right now (I would emphasise I do not have a competitor's product - except the rightly despised Pradis product). The people here on this form are, to a lesser or greater degree, committed to the product and are fans of the company - I therefore take the advocacy offered on behalf of Logos with a grain of salt. They're a business and should be told when consumers aren't happy with an element of their product or service. Again - my opinion.

I too look forward to Logos 4 on my Mac - but that doesn't stop me being forthright in my frustration about the implementation of it so far. Having said that, I have been forthright, feel that upsets people here, and I doubt there's much more I can offer, so I shall now stop.

Posts 439
Mark Stevens | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 3:03 PM

For what it is worth I have to agree with Colin's frustration. Sorry Bob and the Logos team, you did promise a better Mac version than you delivered thus far. We paid $60 for the mac engine which does not work properly with Snow Leopard and the help desk cannot help me fix that problem leaving me with an almost unusable product! Why can't Logos fix the problems I am having with 1.2.2 so I can actually use the program?

 

At the end of the day I am probably going to return to using a PC for sermon prep (it means building a new one) because I need something that works the way it should. I have spent far too long messing around with betas and then a sub standard mac engine to have to wait even longer for a mac engine.  

 

Logos 4 looks great and I look forward to installing it. I must admit however, if i hadn't invested so much money in books for my libronix library I probably would have switched to another bible software by now. I don't mean to sound critical but the whole mac engine and now Logos 4 for Mac alpha has left a bad taste in my mouth. I don't think anything was meant by it, and I think Logos is a great product, but not on a mac.

 

Sorry, just the frustration I feel!

 

 

Posts 30
Jordan Tatom | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 4:40 PM

What problems are you having with Mac 1.2.2 on Snow Leopard?

I'm just curious. You may have tried to do things that I haven't, but I have Snow Leopard and Mac 1.2.2 and can't remember having any problems other than the fact that I would like some features similar to Logos 3 for windows (who knows, maybe they will bring Mac 1.2.2 to the level of 3 over time).  But, I would much rather them focus on Logos 4 for Mac right now... since I already have Logos 4 on my Mac ;-)

The interface isn't really there yet, but I am enjoying the upgrade in packaging.

Posts 838
Dewayne Davis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 5:37 PM

I too purchased the Mac Crossgrade. If I am being dense, I apologize. If I understand correctly, the people, place, and things as well as the other new tools are what makes this shine, correct? If so, are the Mac Upgrade customers required to purchase the new minimal crossgrade to use these features? Or are we only required to purchase it for the PC version? Either is fine with me, I just want to be clear. Last night I thought I would have to crossgrade the gold to get the features for 161.00. Now it looks like I might just be able to spend the 69.00 or is it free? Thanks.

“... every day in which I do not penetrate more deeply into the knowledge of God’s Word in Holy Scripture is a lost day for me. I can only move forward with certainty upon the firm ground of the Word of God.”

Posts 2778
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 5:43 PM

Good question.  I think it would be good for a Logos rep to answer and make sure the correct info is given.  I am also a bit confused on how the Mac upgrade/crossgrade will work for 1.2.2 vs. L4.

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Posts 57
Bryan Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 5:46 PM

Same confusion here. Also did I read right. I can download the Alpha for Mac and still keep my 1.2.2 active?

Posts 127
Darren Paul Wright | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 5:47 PM

You should only have to purchase a resource once, no matter where you use it. So, if you own Platinum for instance, you could install the app on a Mac and a windows machine, get all of your resources on both, and sync all your data between the two.

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Posts 1416
Wes Saad | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 7:58 PM

Bryan,

Yes, you can install Logos 4 on the Mac and continue using 1.2.2. Logos 4 will not interfere with 1.2.2.

Joe,

If I understood Bob right, the difference is that the Mac engine will no longer cost. When finished, the Logos 4 engine for Mac will be free. Crossgrade, upgrade, etc would cost the same as the Windows version because of the resources, not because of the engine. But that's only if I read Bob correctly. :)

Posts 2778
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 9:06 PM

I think you are right Chris.  But I keep getting confused on how it works when trying to explain it to others.  

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Posts 14
Br. Raymond Minot | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 3 2009 11:59 PM

Greetings!

I hate to be in the slow class... but that's probably where I'm at right now. I'm still a bit confused as to how this all works.

The new Alpha engine is free. Great. But what about functionality compared with Windows? I must say, I don't know much about Windows because I bought this last year specifically because it was available for the Mac. But I have played with it a bit in Windows.

Getting back to functionality... what about the things like the "add-ons" for Windows? Namely, the Biblical Persons. It was originally said, if my memory is good, that the new Mac version would have these features integrated and they would not be add-ons.

Now, if the engine is free, but you have to pay for resources... where does that leave these "add-ons"? To be able to use the Biblical people, do you have to buy something? I do seriously hope not.

I bought the Mac version 1 fully knowing that it was it not up to par with Windows. I have no problem with that; good things come to those who wait. But, I did make the purchase because the assurance was there that the new features would be made available... at no cost.

Does someone have an answer?

Posts 2778
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 4 2009 12:11 AM

Welcome brother Raymond.  

The current Alpha release of L4mac is using the exact same code base as the Windows version.  This means that all the features you see in the Windows version are already built into the Mac version we are now testing.  

What the development team is doing now is designing the interface so we can access these features.  As they design each new piece of the interface, we can play with these new features, learn how to use them, give feedback on our experience and improve it for the future.  

IMHO, you are in the perfect place.  You get to see each feature develop, learn how to use it one piece at a time, and in the end you will be much better at using it than if it was all thrown at you at once.

Please keep asking questions and join the Alpha team :-)

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Posts 838
Dewayne Davis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 4 2009 5:31 AM

Dewayne Davis:

I too purchased the Mac Crossgrade. If I am being dense, I apologize. If I understand correctly, the people, place, and things as well as the other new tools are what makes this shine, correct? If so, are the Mac Upgrade customers required to purchase the new minimal crossgrade to use these features? Or are we only required to purchase it for the PC version? Either is fine with me, I just want to be clear. Last night I thought I would have to crossgrade the gold to get the features for 161.00. Now it looks like I might just be able to spend the 69.00 or is it free? Thanks.

I only ask because the response from Bob almost made it sound like since the Mac users already paid for the cross grade, they were not going to have to do it again... He didn't say that, but mixed with the post he was replying to, it could be taken that way... Thanks.

“... every day in which I do not penetrate more deeply into the knowledge of God’s Word in Holy Scripture is a lost day for me. I can only move forward with certainty upon the firm ground of the Word of God.”

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