Not Too Happy about Highlighting\Notes merge

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Richard Lyall | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Oct 12 2011 3:10 PM | Locked

I'm sure there are good technical reasons for this (and that it's here to stay), but it doesn't seem an obviously great idea to me. Here's why.

The possibilities for confusion and contamination of "true" note data are many.

I frequently overlay different styles when colouring a passage. one highlight for the passage, and then different colours for individual features I want to draw attention to. Each of these is now a new note, leading to a rather meaningless jumble of notes, fragments of sentences and individual words (see screenshot).

I think I will create a "highlight dump" note file to contain all these new highlights. Problem is that each time I add a note myself, I have to keep making the dump file current again

Could this feature be switched off, or could there be an option to save highlights to a Notes file specified in System Settings?

Thanks
Richard 

 

Produces the following ...  

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 12 2011 4:31 PM | Locked

I'm still "playing around" with the new notes and see it as moving my use a bit more toward how I use A.nnotate (for it's shared features). Thus far, my inclination is that the auto-created note should contain the name of the highlight style (and possibly palette).

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Todd White (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 12 2011 4:40 PM | Locked

Richard Lyall:
Could this feature be switched off, or could there be an option to save highlights to a Notes file specified in System Settings?

In a future beta we will have an option to chose the default note document highlights are saved to per palette.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 12 2011 4:55 PM | Locked

Todd White:
In a future beta we will have an option to chose the default note document highlights are saved to per palette.

Todd,

I'm sure by now that you should know the temperament of Logos beta testers and NOT have introduced a feature that appears to be badly designed, when a delayed introduction would have saved a considerable amount of Forum word space and angst.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 1649
SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 12 2011 7:02 PM | Locked

Dave Hooton:
I'm sure by now that you should know the temperament of Logos beta testers and NOT have introduced a feature that appears to be badly designed,

I'm sorry to have downloaded this beta. The saving grace is that I am replacing my hard drive within the next few days and was going to have to "scrub" Logos 4 anyways.

I Rarely use Notes but the ones I have are now "ruined." And I have a large group of new ones that are totally useless with a large number of references to individually coloured words (for emphasis) and for eseof locating on a page.

. Unfortunately the discussion in the other thread as to why this new system is being used is over my head.

I am going to try to delete all notes. I'll stick to clippings and Word documents.

I am glad that I was able to get the TOC for the Church Fathers turned intoa PBB before this came down the pipe.

Suggestion: I realize that it is too late now--BUT with all of the changes & fixes to broken parts of the PBB this long-awaited beta would have been great to have those fixed. THEN issue a new one with the "new notes method" as a new issue to deal with /fix etc.

Regards, SteveF

Posts 828
Tim Hensler | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 12 2011 7:40 PM | Locked

Todd White:
option to chose the default note document

It would also be helpful if when you highlight something and it automatically creates a note, that the note is presented to the user so text can add to it at that time.  It's hard enough to find a note when it is created this way, even when the note file is already open.  It would be even worse if the note file wasn't open.  If you don't want to add text to the note, then you can keep going with only a minor interruption from the highlighting action to present the note file open to the new note you just made.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 12 2011 8:45 PM | Locked

SteveF:
Unfortunately the discussion in the other thread as to why this new system is being used is over my head

which thread?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 12 2011 8:47 PM | Locked

Tim Hensler:
It would also be helpful if when you highlight something and it automatically creates a note, that the note is presented to the user so text can add to it

Absolutely!

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1649
SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 12 2011 8:51 PM | Locked

MJ. Smith:
which thread?

http://community.logos.com/forums/t/39459.aspx

Bob Pritchett Replied: Today 5:01 PM

The old design was single-user oriented, so it was okay that there was no "highlight document." 

The change is driven by several things:

- Support for mobile devices and web-presentation of notes/highlights (Biblia.com), which drove some technical changes.

- New use cases requiring multiple sets of highlighting on a single book. (You can search within a highlight, do the Search Analysis on highlights, etc.) This requires "named" or "document-like" highlight sets.

- Document sharing -- in the future you'll be able to collaborate on annotations, or let select individuals take copies of your annotations; this also requires named and manageable highlight documents.

We could have duplicated the whole notes file system for highlights, but people are also asking for highlighting capabilities on the selections to which they attach notes. So it just made sense to merge these things together into a single annotation system.

 

Regards, SteveF

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 12 2011 9:00 PM | Locked

Thanks Steve, I'd missed that post.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1649
SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 12 2011 9:06 PM | Locked

MJ. Smith:
Thanks Steve, I'd missed that post.

You are most welcome MJ Smile

 

Regards, SteveF

Posts 8652
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 13 2011 4:27 AM | Locked

Todd White:
In a future beta we will have an option to chose the default note document highlights are saved to per palette.
I'm glad this option is coming.

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 1416
Wes Saad | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 13 2011 7:27 AM | Locked

SteveF:
I Rarely use Notes but the ones I have are now "ruined."

I agree that the new method is not a good approach. It does not make sense to treat highlights like notes. They are separate features and deserve separate technical treatment.

That said, I don't think existing notes should be affected. At least for me, new note files were created for all my highlights, so no highlights were added to existing note files. The trouble will be going forward, having to remember to select the right note file before making a highlight, a problem that will be fixed when the new option is added. But even with that, I think merging notes and highlights is a bad idea.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 13 2011 9:05 AM | Locked

Chris Roberts:
But even with that, I think merging notes and highlights is a bad idea.

Me, too. I can see the need to create another way to keep track of highlighting for the purposes Bob mentioned, and maybe there is no other way to enable collaboration, but I would rather have collaboration implemented as a separate feature, not forced upon notes and highlighting.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 1416
Wes Saad | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 13 2011 9:24 AM | Locked

I can understand the need for keeping the highlights in named sets, but I think the best approach would keep those sets completely transparent. I could see the benefit of creating a separate highlight file for every resource, but users should never need to see that file. There is no reason for users to know about it. It would be simple, transparent, avoid the need to switch around active note files or specify one note file to dump all highlights in (which I assume would then diminish collaborative features?), etc. 

 

Posts 1649
SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 13 2011 10:53 AM | Locked

Chris Roberts:
That said, I don't think existing notes should be affected.

I can put up with having "silly" one word notes in highlights under each of "solid" "see through" whatever. But to just wildly stick them into whatever note file happened to be last opened is .......Crying

Regards, SteveF

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 13 2011 11:47 AM | Locked

SteveF:
But to just wildly stick them into whatever note file happened to be last opened is .......Crying
After playing with this now, I totally agree that this is another poorly thought-out design.  Because highlighting is for a particular resource, each resource needs its own note file.

Posts 3716
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 13 2011 12:18 PM | Locked

Chris Roberts:
creating a separate highlight file for every resource

Actually, I'm still hoping for something even more flexible. When teaching multiple Blble classes on different books, I like to highlight themes... connetions to other places in Scripture... all for use with a projector. But when one class's highlights show up in another class's use of the same Bible, it's really confusing!

And to add to the complexity, I don't like seeing highlights, period, when I'm doing the research for this week's message. I want fresh eyes on the Scripture, so don't want any highlights at all to tilt me in some direction....

Up to now, I had been asking for highlights to be associated with a layout. But putting them in a separate highlight note does the same thing, as long as I can somehow choose whether or not to make the highlights visible.

Chris Roberts:
users should never need to see that file.
 

I'd prefer not to see it either (ergo request to associate with layout), but somehow I need to be able to control which highlight set is applied. If highlights are in a separate note file, then I'll need to see them to control which one...

 

Grace & Peace,
Bill


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Posts 3716
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 13 2011 12:20 PM | Locked

tom collinge:
each resource needs its own note file.

or set of note files (plural--more than one, which gets us no more than we have now in L4 or L3).

Grace & Peace,
Bill


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Posts 3716
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 13 2011 12:21 PM | Locked

Chris Roberts:
merging notes and highlights is a bad idea.

Agreed...Yes +1

Grace & Peace,
Bill


MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
Samsung S9+, 64GB
Fire 10HD 64GB 7th Gen

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