Christmas Sale Concerns

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Posts 381
Calvin Habig | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Dec 6 2011 2:05 PM

Wow.

I am a long time Logos user/supporter.  I have bought/used Logos since sometimes in the mid-late 90s.  I have, however, in recent years seen them become (in my opinion) less and less an arm for equipping ministry (who deserves to make a reasonable profit) and more and more another large corporation concerned with seeing how high they can jack their prices. 

I have to speak out in response to what I see as a new low in Logos advertising.  Today I got an e-mail ad that intrigued me. 

It said, "If you spend at least $100 between December 1 and January 2, you’ll receive up to 50% of your total as Logos.com credit, which you can put toward even more Bible study resources in the coming year!"

That seems like a good deal.   $100 is pretty steep for me in this economy and in our financial situation, but that might be a good investment to get $50 in credit.

Oh no.

You can't spend $100 and get 50% of the total in Logos credit. (silly me)  You have to watch the qualifiers.  "up to".  You have to spend $5,000 (or more) to get the 50% credit.  Thankfully for the 1% who can spend $5,000 on Bible software "there’s no cap to the amount you can earn!"  (Although does someone who can afford to spend that much really NEED that big of a rebate?)

For the 99% of the rest of us, we're out of luck.

For my $100 I get $10, for which I presume I could buy the e-version of Dickens' "A Christmas Carol."  (yes, I know it is [or at least used to be] free, but hopefully you get my allusion.

I used to look forward to seeing what Logos would do at Christmas time.  I was incredibly blessed by the Christmas packages they put together at wonderful prices back when they offered their Christmas CDs. 

Now it seems that Christmas is just the time to gouge us even more.

I admit that I am held hostage by Logos software. I have so much invested in it financially that I can't afford to switch to another brand of Bible software.  But that doesn't mean I have to feel good about it or will recommend Logos to those young in ministry over whom I have influence. 

Come on Bob, when and why did the ministry and marketing philosophies change at Logos so much?  You are being done a great disservice by whoever is your marketing director. 

I hope by next Christmas we will see some drastic changes in the marketing philosophy of Logos and the company will return to something that the 99% of us can feel good about again.

Cal H.

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 6 2011 2:26 PM

Well, Calvin ... I agree that Logos missed its mission in life as a master marketer. I don't agree with them, but it's their company.

 But 10% off anything you'd like IS unusual over a month period. Some of what you'd like doesn't have much profit margin .... some has a whole bunch. But Logos is letting you decide. That's unusual. Next time you get one of those 10% off everything, read all the fine print.

Now spending even more and getting an even higher percent off is VERY unusual. My impression is they listened to people on the forum?


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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 6 2011 2:38 PM

Carl, did you see that Logos is offering 12 days of Logos?  That might be more of what you are looking for.  The "10% match" is just in addition to that.  Sounds like the deal during Christmas time has gotten sweeter, not more sour.

Denise, good point about the profit margin.  hadn't really even thought of that.

Peace.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 334
Paul Strickert | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 6 2011 2:46 PM

Denise Barnhart:

I agree that Logos missed its mission in life as a master marketer.

Ouch!

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 6 2011 3:46 PM

How to find $5000 to maximize your savings on the 2011 Christmas LogosCash program.

  • Ask your church to advance your  "Book Allowance" for 2012 (and 2013, and 2014 & ....)
  • Sell your boat, motorcycle, camper, big screen TV, stamp collection, golf cart, summer cottage, or race horse Stick out tongue . (You get the idea..)
  • Pull out that credit card, the one with the zero balance.
  • Refinance your house at the new, lower interest rates.

If you are in a position to spend $5000 this month, here is the best deal you can swing out of this year's Christmas specials.

Buy the Portfolio Edition for 15% off.

Add to that another $1,353.51 of premium content you negotiate with a salesperson or discover in the 12 Days of Logos Sale.  You end up with better than 33% savings.

If you have a few friends with enough cash lying around, what prevents all of you placing a $5000 combined order on one account and paying the license transfer fee of $20 each to divide the different purchased content to the appropriate payers?

Just thinking out loud here.

addendum: If your child is going to Bible College or seminary, consider cashing in some of their college fund for $5000 worth of Logos. That will help them immensely (remember, it will be sweetened an additional $2500.) If your child qualifies, buy the resources through the Academic pricing. Big Smile  About 30 years back, Bob Jones University offered me a 4 year Bachelor's degree paid-in-full certificate for a flat $10,000 per child. I am still kicking myself for not selling my house to buy a handful.

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Posts 98
Tim Lord | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 6 2011 4:15 PM

I really miss the Christmas "Library Builder" specials that Logos used to do every Christmas until several years ago.  It was a excellent and enjoyable way for each us to build up our Logos libraries at greatly discounted book prices.  I don't know why Logos does not do these anymore.  Perhaps the shift from CDs to downloadable files makes the sale of such large bundles of book files purchased by numerous customers prohibitive for Logos due to the negative impact such a high volume of file downloads would have upon the Logos servers (as an example of what I mean, Logos had to impose limits with the Perseus downloads).

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 6 2011 5:00 PM

Thankful for some Christmas specials on Vyrso for $ 0.00 pricing; added 5 more resources to my Logos library today.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 549
Shawn Drewett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 6 2011 6:15 PM

Calvin Habig:

I admit that I am held hostage by Logos software. I have so much invested in it financially that I can't afford to switch to another brand of Bible software.  But that doesn't mean I have to feel good about it or will recommend Logos to those young in ministry over whom I have influence. 

Couldn't have said it better myself. I've not made many bad financial decisions in the past which I have regretted, but choosing Logos as my sole bible software years ago is one of them.

 

Calvin Habig:

You are being done a great disservice by whoever is your marketing director. 

 

I have no doubt personally that this new sales philosophy does not originate from within Logos' veteran staff , but at some point secular business models have been studied and implemented from the "big dogs".  It's been a long time since I've bought anything because I simply can't afford it the way the sales are structured now. 

 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 6 2011 7:20 PM

Tim Lord:
I really miss the Christmas "Library Builder" specials that Logos used to do every Christmas until several years ago.  It was a excellent and enjoyable way for each us to build up our Logos libraries at greatly discounted book prices.  I don't know why Logos does not do these anymore.  Perhaps the shift from CDs to downloadable files makes the sale of such large bundles of book files purchased by numerous customers prohibitive for Logos due to the negative impact such a high volume of file downloads would have upon the Logos servers (as an example of what I mean, Logos had to impose limits with the Perseus downloads).

I don't think downloads really have any affect on the structuring of a bundled sale. I imagine it has a lot more to do with coordinating the license holders' permissions with the sale plan. The 2010 Christmas Master Collection was the biggest "library builder" Logos has ever offered and at the cheapest rate per title. They offered several price levels and people complained. If they could not afford $1 per book, I don't know what to say except "sorry guys & gals." They even offered a 50% off build-your-own bundle. For Black Friday we saw more "library builder" styled bundles in affordable ranges.

The Perseus Collections were offered free so they are not particularly revenue-generating. In all fairness to Logos customers who paid for resources, Logos needs to meter the bandwidth of the Perseus downloads so the update speeds and delivery of purchased content is kept at a convenient level. Even when Jesus fed the multitudes they had to wait on the distribution. I would love a pick-your own bundle sale with no minimum or maximum and everything at 50% off regular selling prices. That is a "library builder" for everyone.

 

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Posts 645
Dean J | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 6 2011 8:00 PM

I don't really understand why people are so unhappy with Logos. I am a newbie but I am very pleased with what I can do with it, and I don't know of any other software that matches it. I am not happy with the way that older works, otherwise available often for free, are so prohibitively expensive (and I understand that they have to make the community pricing appealing), but other than that, I can't really fault them - and we live in a world where unfortunately many churches are run like marketing firms, but I can't fault Logos for offering a ten percent credit on Christmas purchases. Maybe I'm missing something and will see it as I spend longer around here, but it's sad for me to hear that older veterans of Logos are no longer happy with it. I wish I understood better where you're all coming from.

Posts 1355
Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 6 2011 8:16 PM

Someone wise once said, "You can't please all the people all of the time...."

 

Posts 93
Fab | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 7 2011 1:25 AM

I agree with Denise Barnhart : "I agree that Logos missed its mission in life as a master marketer. I don't agree with them, but it's their company". 

Very wisely said I think. I really feel bad that Logos members are obliged to always buy for hundreds of dollars. I'm a student, I've worked years to pay my $6000 fees for this year (in Theological Seminary). So, I'm really one of those who need to increase my library for research, but I'm the first one (and all students in my situation of course) who can't afford it ... so is it logical? So bargains is good but inaccessible, fortunately. I guess with this market policy it will be the decline of the trust we have in Logos. 

BUT Logos program is very very good, and I thank the whole staff for working on it. That's undeniable. Only the policy is getting to aim money more than service. 

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 7 2011 1:43 AM

Hi Fabrice

Fabrice de Almeida:
I really feel bad that Logos members are obliged to always buy for hundreds of dollars

I don't understand this statement.

I have just looked through some of the products on the Logos.com website and I believe there are 1,195 resources available for less than $10.

Clearly I have no idea whether any of these are relevant to what you are studying but it does show that Logos makes many books available for much less than hundreds of dollars.

Graham

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 7 2011 3:01 AM

Fabrice de Almeida:
I'm a student, I've worked years to pay my $6000 fees for this year (in Theological Seminary). So, I'm really one of those who need to increase my library for research, but I'm the first one (and all students in my situation of course) who can't afford it ... so is it logical? So bargains is good but inaccessible, fortunately.

You may actually need the diploma from the Seminary, I don't know.  That is a box the professional institutions like to keep students in. But I know many who live outside the box and advance quickly to great success. My siblings and myself were all home-schooled and three have Masters degrees from State University and accredited Seminaries. Some of my childhood friends orally tested out of Asian Studies Bachelor's and the Reagan White House selected them for a forward team when Reagan went to China. Two of my other friends ended up as top executives for GM and Ford in Japan. My point here is; instead of questioning how trustworthy Logos sales policies are, How about placing your seminary under the same microscope. For $40,000 You can gain a superior education outside of a seminary. Depending on what your vocational goal is, staying inside the box may be detrimental. Corporate headhunters screen for curricula vitæ not diplomas.

Non-traditional education is a proven method for excellence. (Check how the Robinson children are doing.) If I had to choose between attending Seminary and buying  $20,000 to $40,000 worth of Logos resources, Logos wins out easily.

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Posts 291
Kaye Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 7 2011 4:25 AM

Logos is a business.  Its job is to make profit, no matter how spiritual minded its products are.  I am a Christian.  My job is to use discernment in what I do, by the Holy Spirit's guidance and God's Word.  That is one reason I rarely visit the Logos site or message boards these days.  Seeing the new stuff or hearing of a sale can encourage me to spend where it is not wise for my need and situation.  I work in a food pantry in Appalachian America where the cost of one book purchase can feed a family for a month in some cases.  I have to keep perspective.

I wish you all peace and financial discernment in this blessed Christmas season where we remember and honor what really matters - God's gift of our Savior, who is all we really need, and the contentment that comes from truly knowing that.

Happy shopping!

Kaye

"But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry."  2 Timothy 4:5 (NASB)

Posts 93
Fab | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 7 2011 5:23 AM

Hey Graham, I only meant for bargains and special offers.

Actually I'm not that opposed against Logos Company than you think. I'm just stating on that "strange" policy. Of course on a regular basis, Logos has excellent books shop and lots of resources. And I totally accept that it's a business, I myself would love to work for that kind of job. As a student I would like to profit of some especial bargains and I feel like in the "Torment of Tantalus", I have no access to it.

And concerning following my master's degree outside the campus. I myself know that this is my place for now, ordained by God. To have the knowledge is not sufficient, and I learn a lot among other Christian on the campus. I can begin to serve the Lord here ... that I couldn't do as a (belgian) paratrooper. So, imho, it's not all about having the degree, it's about going toward what God has has planned for us, in a peculiar place at that moment. 

Posts 291
Bob Schlessman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 7 2011 5:53 AM

Super Tramp:
Ask your church to advance your  "Book Allowance" for 2012 (and 2013, and 2014 & ....)

What's a "Book Allowance"? Smile

Seriously, overall the pricing offered by Logos is very reasonable given the Dollars-spent/Resource ratio. But for those of us who serve small congregations and have to pay out of pocket for all of our ministry tools, to spend $5,000 is unheard of. I haven't spent $5,000 in the six years I have been using Logos software.

That said, I don't begrudge larger discounts for those who spend more. And Logos is a company that exists to provide a product while making a profit. Taking into account all of their customer base will guarantee that they will continue to do so.

Posts 291
Bob Schlessman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 7 2011 5:58 AM

Edwin Bowden:

Someone wise once said, "You can't please all the people all of the time...."

 

Yes

That was Abraham Lincoln, a fellow Illinoisan.

Posts 291
Bob Schlessman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 7 2011 6:02 AM

Super Tramp:

Non-traditional education is a proven method for excellence. (Check how the Robinson children are doing.) If I had to choose between attending Seminary and buying  $20,000 to $40,000 worth of Logos resources, Logos wins out easily.

I agree with you to a point Super Tramp. But non-traditional education isn't for everybody. There are some (myself included) who need the structure and discipline of a traditional education to get the basic foundation.  

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 7 2011 8:34 AM

Dean053:

I don't really understand why people are so unhappy with Logos. I am a newbie but I am very pleased with what I can do with it, and I don't know of any other software that matches it. I am not happy with the way that older works, otherwise available often for free, are so prohibitively expensive (and I understand that they have to make the community pricing appealing), but other than that, I can't really fault them - and we live in a world where unfortunately many churches are run like marketing firms, but I can't fault Logos for offering a ten percent credit on Christmas purchases. Maybe I'm missing something and will see it as I spend longer around here, but it's sad for me to hear that older veterans of Logos are no longer happy with it. I wish I understood better where you're all coming from.

Peace to you, Dean!        *smile*                                           And ...............            Always Joy in the Lord!

                   I really appreciate your post, and I concur heartily!  Indeed!              I am a very long-term Logos user going back to around 1993 or 1994.  It is truly remarkable software; and it enables me to study God's Word and a myriad of theological and original language resources in extremely powerful manner.

                           Like you, I honestly do not understand where some are coming from.  Logos needs to make a profit.  A lot of people depend upon their success.  Their overhead must be tremendous.     Even just the salaries plus all kinds of expenses that we wouldn't even know about.  Also,Logos really truly takes care of their customers!          *smile*

                            Thank you very much for your positive post.                I also, with you,  have tremendous appreciation of and respect for Logos!       Proverbs 22:1

                       

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

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