Series of On-line Seminars on using Discourse Analysis in Bible Study

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jan 19 2012 7:19 AM

My frustrations in using the D.A. materials available to us in Logos came out in another thread. In thinking about this, I wondered about a video series to explain D.A., but those are expensive to produce, and don't always hit the mark on what is needed.

Maybe a series of on-line interactive (via texting / email, e.g.) seminars (AKA webinars) would be better; something that would help us understand 1) what we see when we look at the HDNT and/or LDGNT, and 2) how to make effective/fruitful use of these resources. I would envision a 1 hr. seminar 1ce/wk for several weeks (recorded so that if we missed one, we could still keep up). I would expect that 1) would take some time, as D.A. lingo and methods seem a bit obtuse, at times; and that 2) would give examples of using D.A. to tease out meaning that is especially obvious when applying D.A. principles to the D.A. markers found in the HDNT and the LDGNT.

The two main advantages of an online seminar over professionally produced video is 1) cost is much lower, since there is no post-production editing, retakes, etc. 2) being interactive, points that need clarification can be done 'on the spot' or at least within minutes. A third advantage is that a 'failure' one week on some point could be addressed the next week (just like in a classroom).

The biggest disadvantage is that participants would potentially be located across many time-zones. A second disadvantage is that there would need to be at least one additional person (besides presenter and videographers) to field, prioritize and pass on questions that are sent in. A third disadvantage may be bandwidth requirements of a webinar.

Prep time would be about the same as for a classroom, and its possible that existing classroom material could be adapted for the project.

Could these be free or discounted to Logos users / Scholars & above / Greek Discourse bundle owners? If not, I would not object to a modest enrollment fee, if I could keep a copy of all the sessions on my computer for later review.

EDIT: Uh, as Graham pointed out below, the DVD's are already out (sorry for missing that tiny bit of information!). So the whole cost benefit of doing webinars vs videos doesn't apply in this case. I still think a series of interactive on-line seminars could be useful, though.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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John Fallahee | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 19 2012 7:48 AM

I love the idea! I will definitely do a series of webinars on these resources real soon (www.LearnLogos.com)

Right now I have the following webinar scheduled.

02/06/12 9-10 pm (ET) How to Use the Syntax Search Engine (OT/NT)

https://www3.gotomeeting.com/register/620805390

Also, I did several Webinars on how to use Andersen-Forbes and OpenText for building Biblical outlines.

http://www.learnlogos.com/Webinar_04_Preparing_Sermons_p/ps04.htm

http://www.learnlogos.com/Webinar_04_Studying_the_Bible_p/sb04.htm

http://www.learnlogos.com/Webinar_04_Inductive_Bible_Study_p/ibs04.htm

Lastly, I do some book overviews on the HDNT and syntax training on my training CDs:

http://www.learnlogos.com/Learn_Logos_4_Training_CD_s/1814.htm

 

I hope this helps.

 

John Fallahee, M.B.A, M.Div.

LearnLogos.com

CEO/Video Trainer

 

 

 

 

 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 19 2012 8:22 AM

Thanks John!

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 19 2012 8:40 AM

John Fallahee:
I love the idea! I will definitely do a series of webinars on these resources real soon (www.LearnLogos.com)

Thanks John.

What I don't know about you is whether you have any training in D.A., which is what I'm looking for. I don't mean "general knowledge of," but expert knowledge. I was actually hoping Steve Runge would do these himself, or some other 'in house' person at Logos - and then offer them to us for free (I'm assuming you couldn't afford to do that, and don't blame you!).

Thanks for pointing out your web site, though. I was not aware of all the training resources you have available. Prices look good too.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 19 2012 9:07 AM

Richard DeRuiter:
I was actually hoping Steve Runge would do these himself

Hi Rich

I'm assuming that you are aware of this product:

http://www.logos.com/product/7076/introducing-new-testament-discourse-grammar-video-series

So I guess that would lead to the question, what are you looking for from a video series?

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 19 2012 9:34 AM

Graham Owen:

Richard DeRuiter:
I was actually hoping Steve Runge would do these himself

Hi Rich

I'm assuming that you are aware of this product:

http://www.logos.com/product/7076/introducing-new-testament-discourse-grammar-video-series

So I guess that would lead to the question, what are you looking for from a video series?

Hah!

For some reason I thought this was still in process. How did I think that?!!

Assuming that my red face is not actually showing on the screen right now Embarrassed, does anyone out there have some experience with these DVD's? Does it help someone like me (who still doesn't get what D.A. does, nor how it's helpful) understand enough about D.A. to actually apply the priniciples myself, or does it fall short of that goal?

I don't see any reviews on the web site yet, so maybe insights could be posted there (and here) regarding the helpfulness of these videos.

 

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 19 2012 9:56 AM

Richard DeRuiter:
Assuming that my red face is not actually showing on the screen right now

You may have just forfeited the star!

I have the videos and found them very useful, Steve explains things well and his use of nail guns, yes I did say nail guns, hammers home some key points (pun intentional). Once the key principles of the approach are grasped you kind of realise two key points:

1 - it is not really that hard because it is all about thinking about things that we do in English all the time

2 - it can get a bit deep and I'm sure that taken to extremes it could become a distraction or possibly even an obsession

Having watched the videos the books and the Bibles make a lot more sense and I have found it helpful in understanding and explaining some specific texts where I had previously had an instinctive idea of the emphasis but the Discourse Analysis helped me understand why it actually worked that way. For example because Steve explains Left Dislocation and the Far Demonstrative so well I was better equipped to understand the emphasis in what Jesus was saying in Matthew 6:21. This is just on example and Steve explains all of the principles on the video in a way that enables you to apply them to each text as you encounter them.

Hope this helps...

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 19 2012 10:04 AM

Graham Owen:
I have the videos and found them very useful

Thanks Graham - I just added them to my wish list. Tongue Tied

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 19 2012 10:05 AM

Graham Owen:

Richard DeRuiter:
Assuming that my red face is not actually showing on the screen right now

You may have just forfeited the star!

Just goes to show you, we 'stars' don't know everything (this comment does not apply to Dave Hooton Wink).

Graham Owen:
I have the videos and found them very useful . . .

Thanks for the review. You might consider posting this as a review on the web page.

I watched the videos there and didn't find them all that enticing. The interpretation of Eph 5:18,ff is also given using traditional exegetical methods (and an intepretive point I learned a long time ago, just based on traditional grammatical methods). Some of the other 'teasers' didn't really tell me much either. Your review is actually more compelling.

Let me ask you one more question about this; Having viewed the videos do you feel able to do your own D.A. on a passage, and have you found this helpful in your studies?

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 19 2012 10:21 AM

Richard DeRuiter:
Let me ask you one more question about this; Having viewed the videos do you feel able to do your own D.A. on a passage, and have you found this helpful in your studies?

Yes I have found it useful, especially with some of the devices that do not translate well from Greek to English. Personally I would say that my use of Discourse Analysis is currently mechanical and my challenge to myself for the next month or so is to read/reread the books and to watch the videos again so that I can internalise more.

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

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Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 19 2012 11:05 AM

Richard DeRuiter:
The interpretation of Eph 5:18,ff is also given using traditional exegetical methods (and an intepretive point I learned a long time ago, just based on traditional grammatical methods).

Sorry Rich, it just dawned on me that in answering the question that you asked I completely ignored this observation.

You are correct in thinking that where the grammatical construction of the Greek transfers well into English that Discourse Analysis adds little to your basic understanding of the text other than the assurance that the assumptions that you are making based on the English Grammar are supported by the Original Greek. I think that it is fair to say that most of the time translators do a good job in giving us an English text that refelects the original and taht we can understand. 

With that in mind Discourse Analysis does highlight some grammatical techniques that are not easily transferred from Greek to English and these are potentially more interesting. 

Also, I think that it helps to add some personal context to comments. Whilst I was generally happy with my exegetical skills, I do like to try and push myself and it would be fair to say that the prepub of this video set arrive at an opportune moment because I was looking for a new learning experience.

My earlier reply did assume someone with a good basic exegetical method who was looking for some fresh ideas to use in exploring the text but who is mature enough to avoid the plain daft and the stupidly exotic.

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 19 2012 12:27 PM

Graham Owen:
. . . You are correct in thinking that where the grammatical construction of the Greek transfers well into English that Discourse Analysis adds little to your basic understanding of the text other than the assurance that the assumptions that you are making based on the English Grammar are supported by the Original Greek. I think that it is fair to say that most of the time translators do a good job in giving us an English text that refelects the original and taht we can understand. . . .

Thanks for clarifying that, Graham.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 19 2012 1:36 PM

Personally found => Introducing New Testament Discourse Grammar: Video Series provides insights for Greek connective words, which are used for thought organization and flow. "Discourse Grammar of the Greek New Testament: A Practical Introduction for Teaching and Exegesis." logosres:discgrmrgrknt;ref=Page.p_57;off=40 includes a table:

Thankful for Dr. Runge's expanding my understanding how these words are used.

Keep Smiling Smile

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 19 2012 1:49 PM

Richard DeRuiter:
Let me ask you one more question about this; Having viewed the videos do you feel able to do your own D.A. on a passage, and have you found this helpful in your studies?

Graham has given you are superb review, but I wanted to add one point: It would probably enhance the learning experience to also purchase the introductory Discourse Grammar (that is not the exact title) Discourse Grammar of the Greek New Testament: A Practical Introduction for Teaching and Exegesis 

Covers the same ground as the video, so it may depend on how you best learn—visual or text—but they do supplement one another.

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Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 20 2012 12:40 AM

Jack Caviness:
I wanted to add one point: It would probably enhance the learning experience to also purchase the introductory Discourse Grammar (that is not the exact title) Discourse Grammar of the Greek New Testament: A Practical Introduction for Teaching and Exegesis 

Good catch Jack, this is the book that I was referring to when I said read/reread, using a food analogy the video is the appetiser and the book is the main course.  Dessert will be when Steve Runge completes the Hebrew part!

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

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Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 20 2012 12:44 AM

John Fallahee:
I love the idea! I will definitely do a series of webinars on these resources real soon (www.LearnLogos.com)

Thanks John that would be great.

As a thought, what would be good in a series would be to demonstrate how the Logos Search, Highlight and other tools can be used to find/draw attention to the various Discourse Devices. 

BTW - from a UK perspective your webinar time is not great as it is 2:00 a.m. here!

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

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John Fallahee | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 21 2012 9:34 AM

Just wanted to let everyone know, I have scheduled a FREE training webinar for February 27, 2012 - 9 pm -10:30 pm (ET)

Discourse Analysis: Practical Uses for Bible Study and Sermon Preparation, Part 1

Click for Free Signup: https://www3.gotomeeting.com/register/443961590

(sorry about the UK time zone!)

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 21 2012 10:00 AM

John Fallahee:

Just wanted to let everyone know, I have scheduled a FREE training webinar for February 27, 2012 (9 pm -10:30 pm)

Discourse Analysis: Practical Uses for Bible Study and Sermon Preparation, Part 1

Click for Free Signup: https://www3.gotomeeting.com/register/443961590

(sorry about the UK time zone!)

Is that PST, EST?

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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John Fallahee | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 21 2012 10:16 AM

Eastern Time Zone (New York, NY)

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 22 2012 5:26 AM

John Fallahee:
Just wanted to let everyone know, I have scheduled a FREE training webinar for February 27, 2012 - 9 pm -10:30 pm (ET)

Let us know when it is complete, and I will probably purchase. doubt that the webinar will be convenient for me.

 

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