What is more useful in Libronix 3.0g ? (especially compared to Logos 4.5a)

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Posts 2369
Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 4 2012 8:32 AM

George Somsel:
One feature  Libronix had, and  was touted at one time by Logos itself,  was the ability to search in locked resources  if you had them downloaded. This was useful if one had a paper copy of the book and wanted to do a search for something; much easier than trying to find something in multiple volumes if you didn't know exactly where it was. You could then readily go to the hard copy to read. I guess this wasn't too advantageous for Logos, but it did give one the incentive to get the digital resource if you needed to do copy and paste.

About a year ago I returned a resource after purchasing it.  I cannot access it because I no longer have a license for it , but since it downloaded into my resources folder it will show up in my search results.  So the capability is there in L4 to search even those resources we don't own.

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 4 2012 9:30 AM

Rosie Perera:
Ctrl-Shift > or < keyboard shortcut to increase or decrease resource font size

What's wrong with cmd-+ and cmd--, which work just fine these days (although I presume it's ctrl on PC)? Besides, I don't know what an American keyboard looks like, but Ctrl-Shift > or < would be impossible for me, since the shift would automatically transform any < into a >.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 18818
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 4 2012 4:59 PM

fgh:

Rosie Perera:
Ctrl-Shift > or < keyboard shortcut to increase or decrease resource font size

What's wrong with cmd-+ and cmd--, which work just fine these days (although I presume it's ctrl on PC)? Besides, I don't know what an American keyboard looks like, but Ctrl-Shift > or < would be impossible for me, since the shift would automatically transform any < into a >.

That doesn't work on Windows at the moment. I don't think it ever did. Ctrl-Plus and Ctrl-Minus work to increase/decrease the size of graphics in Biblical People/Places Things, but that's it. No way (from the keyboard) to increase/decrease the font size.

Anyway US keyboards have < as Shift-, (comma) and > as Shift-. (period). So technically we'd normally write Ctrl-Shift-, and Ctrl-Shift-. but you can't see the comma and period very well so whoever originally suggested this (which I was copying from and pasting here) used the < and > which also appear on those same keycaps.

Posts 27510
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 4 2012 6:58 PM

ROGER JIMENEZ:

MJ. Smith:
The ability to create timelines and harmonies using XML. This is a biggy to me.

Actually, by the time I came to Logos, never worked.

Interesting as I still use my timelines in L3. I've created my own harmonies solution.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 242
ROGER JIMENEZ | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 4 2012 8:46 PM

MJ. Smith:

ROGER JIMENEZ:

MJ. Smith:
The ability to create timelines and harmonies using XML. This is a biggy to me.

Actually, by the time I came to Logos, never worked.

Interesting as I still use my timelines in L3. I've created my own harmonies solution.

 

Really? What editor do you work in? I stand ready to re-open my old Toshiba (With XP).

I always tried to follow the instructions (in english, the promised help in Spanish never came), and always reported an error.

BTW: Can you use the L3 timelines in L4?

 

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 7:01 AM

Rosie Perera:
That doesn't work on Windows at the moment. I don't think it ever did. Ctrl-Plus and Ctrl-Minus work to increase/decrease the size of graphics in Biblical People/Places Things, but that's it. No way (from the keyboard) to increase/decrease the font size.

What? I thought that worked for you long before it worked for us, and it's worked for us a year or so now. So the Wiki commands only work in Biblical...? How come I've never seen a single Windows thread about this? When it didn't work on Mac, there were posts about it virtually every week.

Rosie Perera:
US keyboards have < as Shift-, (comma) and > as Shift-. (period)

How unintuitive. We have semicolon above comma, and colon above period.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 7:12 AM

DMB:
Being able to 'arrow' through the left-side TOC quickly, opening and closing sections when I'm looking for something

Works on Mac.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 7:22 AM

fgh:

Rosie Perera:
US keyboards have < as Shift-, (comma) and > as Shift-. (period)

How unintuitive. We have semicolon above comma, and colon above period.

If that's true of MAC US keyboards, that is simply another reason to not use a MAC—definitely a non-standard layout (going back to my old Underwood manual typewriter days).

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 4625
RIP
Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 7:38 AM

Ward Walker:

For some, L4 is eval'd like:

 מְנֵא מְנֵא תְּקֵל וּפַרְסִין׃

Great Humour, Ward!            *smile*                                                 Thank You!            Peace to you!          ... and ...          ........Always Joy in the Lord!

                                                                                                                    John 16:33

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 7:48 AM

George Somsel:
If that's true of MAC US keyboards, that is simply another reason to not use a MAC

Why on earth would Apple use Swedish keyboards in the US? 

And you still haven't learnt the difference between MAC and Mac.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 9:13 AM

fgh:
And you still haven't learnt the difference between MAC and Mac.

Of course I know the difference.  "Mac" is a shortened or "nick" name.  MAC is the MACcie Mouse Computer (sogenannte).

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 18818
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 12:34 PM

fgh:

Rosie Perera:
US keyboards have < as Shift-, (comma) and > as Shift-. (period)

How unintuitive. We have semicolon above comma, and colon above period.

Actually I would find the stacked key with both < and > on it horribly unintuitive. Having them right next to each other makes it easy to remember. The one on the left points left, the one on the right points right. Both on one key? Which ones is the shifted one and which one is unshifted. It seems arbitrary. No thanks. I'll take my US keyboard any day.

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 12:58 PM

Rosie Perera:
Actually I would find the stacked key with both < and > on it horribly unintuitive.

Now, that I can agree with. Smile But that doesn't mean I'd want them above the comma and the period. Semicolon above comma, and colon above period is intuitive. The 'arrows' could be up above some figures.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 1:14 PM

Rosie Perera:
Which ones is the shifted one and which one is unshifted. It seems arbitrary.

Actually, thinking about it, it's not arbitrary. If you use them as angle brackets you start with a plain <, then you type something, and then you finish with a shift-<, which becomes a >. Kind of like clicking at the beginning and shift-clicking at the end to select a text.

Thanks for finally helping me to memorize that! I use them so seldom that I never have.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 18818
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 5 2012 1:27 PM

fgh:

Rosie Perera:
Actually I would find the stacked key with both < and > on it horribly unintuitive.

Now, that I can agree with. Smile But that doesn't mean I'd want them above the comma and the period. Semicolon above comma, and colon above period is intuitive. The 'arrows' could be up above some figures.

I guess it all comes down to what you learned. I don't even have to think twice about typing comma, period, semicolon and colon, since I learned to type touch and those are all included on the home keys for us. To me the pairings on a US keyboard make sense. Semi-colon is like "half a colon" (not quite as dramatic a stop as a colon), so shifting it to get a colon makes sense. Similarly, comma is not as long a pause as a period, so shifting it makes sense to me.

Ironically, the physical keyboard I have now is a Spanish layout, so it does have semi-colon above comma and colon above period, and the shifted numbers are all non-US-standard too. But the software is set up to still emit the US key codes from the locations I'm used to. I don't have to look at the keyboard when I type, so it's no big deal for me, but it confuses others when they try to type on my keyboard.

Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 6 2012 6:59 PM

Lately, I have gone back to the Book of Daniel, due to something someone asked me, I have been using L4 for this re-hash of a study and the part asked was concerning the early chapters of Daniel. 

As I have been sitting here, I kept thinking in the back of my mind of whether or not I had saved the L3 work that I had done. I opened L3 and found that the brief study was still in tack. 

BUT, the thing that got my attention was the fact that when I did a BWS for a particular word – it came up ALL the Aramaic resources AND the Tragums. Such where part of the BWS for L3. I went back to L4 and started to compare the two BWS’s and noticed that to get the targum hits I had to actually go look for them by way of the search feature. Interestingly, I would think that L4 would be able to make the same distinction, but from what I could tell it doesn’t…… 

Funny, ya’ never know what was taken away until ya go lookin’ for it!!..........

DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.

Posts 1691
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 6 2012 10:03 PM

Robert G. Mettler:
One feature  Libronix had, and  was touted at one time by Logos itself,  was the ability to search in locked resources  if you had them downloaded.

Logos 4 doesn't download locked resources, but we'll be offering similar functionality (via a search of the resources on our servers) in a future release.

Posts 1691
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 6 2012 10:52 PM

Rosie Perera:

Fuzzy Search will come back in a major future release.

Rosie Perera:

  • Custom Serial Resources Associations (comes with Power Tools Addin) (see here)

This was definitely a "power user" feature, and one that got little use and caused a lot of confusion. We don't plan on bringing it back soon, but will reconsider if it gets enough support on UserVoice.

Rosie Perera:

Coming back, relatively soon.

Rosie Perera:

  • Sermon File (this was on the "missing features" list)

We were planning on replacing this with something different, but have been convinced otherwise. We are presently re-specifying the feature for inclusion in the 4.x time frame.

Rosie Perera:

  • Video Resources (this was on the "missing features" list)

Coming back very soon.

Rosie Perera:

  • Back and Forward History (David Paul was at one time a great advocate for this missing feature: see here and here)

No plans to bring this back. It has only 3 votes on UserVoice and we think it isn't worth the clutter it adds to the user interface.

Rosie Perera:

  • Ability to copy book description and other text from About This Resource (cannot copy from Info panel in Logos 4.5; see here)

This was an unintended side-effect of using HTML for report display in Logos 3. In Logos 4 we don't use HTML, and would have to write an entire text-selection framework for our report windows. This is a massive project, and in light of Microsoft (and Apple's) changing priorities, we're actually considering a return to HTML for report windows in the next version of Logos. So it seems like a bad investment of time to write the selection framework now for a display technology we may leave. If there are key things that need copying a lot, it would be much easier to make a "right-click and copy" UI for these specific things that worked on a whole paragraph/unit level, rather than implementing character level selection on what is essentially a "painted" window. If someone wants to provide a list of "top places I need 'copy'" we can add this soon.

Rosie Perera:

  • Ability to open multiple prioritized resources when double-clicking a word (see here)

We felt this was a classic example of unnecessary complexity in Logos 3 that caused a lot of confusion and broke basic interface paradigms. Moreover, while multiple destination windows were visible in a cascading window UI, in our tiling system they would open in tabs and you'd only see the top one. We have no plans to bring this feature back. A single double-click operation brings up a single KeyLink destination. It is, however, very easy to bring up "the next" KeyLink destination -- double-click in the space to the right of the "+" in the tab area of the first KeyLink destination. This brings up the next resources. Double-click in the space again, get the next one. Or, click the "+" and directly select the destination you want from the list. This puts control of how many windows you want on a particular KeyLink into your hands, at the price of just a couple double-clicks. It prevents you needing to mess with a setting, and avoids situations where you get too many or not enough destinations for a particular term.

Rosie Perera:

  • Ctrl-Shift > or < keyboard shortcut to increase or decrease resource font size (see here)

I'm not sure why these aren't supported, but they should be easy to add unless there's something I've forgotten about why we missed them. We did go through all Logos 3 shortcuts, so I feel like there must be a good reason, but I don't recall. We will check it out.

Rosie Perera:

  • Open to a designated layout (not merely last layout you closed with) (see here)

I think we can add this. Need to figure out where -- presently "Customize" on the Home Page controls if we open to the Home Page or not, but doesn't seem like where you'd put this setting. But putting it somewhere else would put "what happens at startup" in two places.

Rosie Perera:

  • In L3, Tools > Resources and Collections enabled us to see what collections each resource was part of (this has been requested in L4; not on UserVoice as far as I can tell, and can't find thread on forum)

We've tried to keep the UI uncluttered with "administrative" reports that don't help Bible study. But maybe we need this one back. It just feels like a weird report -- it's simply a static dump of what resources are in what collection.

I would also argue that this isn't "missing" in 4. We re-defined collections to work completely differently, in a way we think is more useful and flexible and which doesn't require this report. Most of the demand for this feature seems to come from users who desire to make sure every book is in a collection. An important thing to check when books had to be manually added to a collection, and you didn't want any left out. But dynamic, query-based collections are easily designed to capture all new arrivals in a category, making this (forgive me) "obsessive" collection management unnecessary.

More interesting would be dynamic presentation of "what collections this resource is in" in the Library view. Then you could sort by collection and essentially get this report. This is, however, a surprisingly complicated feature to implement now that collections are queries against the library catalog, not just lists of books. A collection is stored as a query, and run when needed. It can even be defined in terms of another collection. If we tried to enumerate books, showing every collection each is a member of, we'd need to make a complicated tree of collection dependencies (collections which contain references to other collections would need to be enumerated after the referenced collections). Then we'd need to store this in a database (because there are thousands of books, each of which could belong to a dozen or more collections). Then we could show it in the library, but any change (adding a tag, a rating, etc.) could force a regeneration of the entire dependency tree, and a re-rending of the collection field in every library list item.

This is, of course, doable. But it's expensive and complicated and could dramatically slow down some core operations, like using the library. 

We will look into this more, though, based on demand.

Rosie Perera:

  • Greek Word Occurrence (I'm not sure I understand how to get this feature to work in L3, but people say it was there in a way that hasn't been replicated as easily yet in L4; see here and here)

This has only 6 votes on UserVoice. Generating the data requires either a special pre-built data table or running a search in the Info window, which changes as you move the mouse. It seems like it could have an undesirable performance impact to run the query on mouse movement, but I'm not sure. We can look into this again.

Rosie Perera:

  • Ability to know name of current Layout to save changes to it (could do so with loaded workspaces in Logos 3) (see here)

Layouts aren't workspaces. They don't put you into a state, and you aren't "in" a layout, you "load" a layout as a snapshot in time. Accidental destruction of workspaces by saving back over them, or auto-saving them unintentionally, was a problem with Logos 3 -- along with incredible confusion -- so we redesigned this behavior into the new Layout system. We can't show you "which layout you're in" because you aren't in one at all.

Maybe we need to rethink this whole system, but it's non-trivial. I think it deserves its own thread and "from scratch" conversation.

Rosie Perera:

  • Greek Read Aloud feature had speed control in Libronix (see here)

Did Greek Read Aloud have this, or just text-to-speech read aloud? Because Greek Read Aloud uses recorded audio, and that requires pitch manipulation to prevent "chipmunk" voice, and I don't know that we ever did this in Logos 3. We can add it for text to speech, and should do that by the next major release. We're also looking into the "chipmunk voice" problem and hoping to solve it when we (shortly) release new audio Bibles and other resources. (Incidentally, this has just 3 votes on UserVoice.)

Rosie Perera:

  • Aligned hits in context for Basic Search results (see here and here)

This is just something we dropped. I don't know that it's too hard to add back, but it has a remarkable 1 vote on UserVoice, which is why it hasn't been a big priority. With the move to WPF instead of HTML for reports / search results, we have to hand-code each results view. Each is more expensive to implement, and we (correctly) thought there wasn't high demand for that particular view.

 

Posts 1691
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 6 2012 10:56 PM

Rosie Perera:
Being able to buy resources from within Logos (the current error message showing "you don't own this resource but you could" is lame -- you can't even click on a link to get to that resource on the Logos website from that tab).

Coming back. Required a surprisingly complex resource ID to SKU mapping system be created. (Since some resources are only in collections, or are in many collections, etc.)

Posts 1691
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 6 2012 10:57 PM

BillS:

  • On Rosie's list,
    Ability to know name of current Layout to save changes to it (could do so with loaded workspaces in Logos 3) (see here)
    I'd add:  save CURRENT workspace without having to know what it is. While it's true that deleting a favorite workspace even once will train us NEVER to do that again, to facilitate it happening even once is one time too many. And if we aren't careful the current software facilitates it EACH time.
  • In Passage Guide, SermonCenctral gets 10 entries each time we hit the web. Current PG gets 5. So each week, I still open L3 at that point in the week's research & use the old PG to browse SermonCentral. It not only saves me time, but the info provided in that section is more useful than the info provided in L4's PG, not to mention being much easier on my hurting wrists & hands. :-)
  • I've explained about Layouts above, and can discuss in a new thread.

    Are you saying we displayed more info about each sermon in the Logos 3 PG, or just more sermons in each section? (I confess I don't have 3 installed to check!)

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