Logos 4 and french Bible

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This post has 76 Replies | 10 Followers

Posts 13
SAGLIETTO daniel | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Nov 13 2009 12:39 AM

Hi everyone,

i am a new and happy user of Logos 4 , and , as i live in france,  ans i should do to ask if some french bible version could be freely given when you have logos.The reason why i am asking that is because you have more than 4 french bible version which are free to be used ( for example they are free on esword, bible on line .....).

bless,

dan

 

Soli Deo Gloria.....toujours !!!!

http://danielsaglietto.blogspot.com/

Posts 159
David Matthew | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 2:35 AM

Yes, I have been natterng Logos for some years to get more variety in the French Bibles available. It's not good enough to be stuck with just Louis Segond - the equivalent of the KJV in English. I'd like, for instance, the Bible Du Semeur. Allez, Logos!

Posts 77
Adrian Frost | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 3:05 AM

Although it's an additional cost the Stuttgart Electronic Study Bible (SESB) package comes with three extra French bibles:

Bible en Français Courant; La Nouvelle Bible Segond (édition d'étude); Traduction Oecuménique de la Bible

At $324.95 (about 220 euros) it's pricey but you do get a bunch of other useful resources.

Eglise Protestante Evangélique de Libramont, Belgique - www.epelibramont.com

Posts 34
Ian McAsey | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 3:21 AM

We have a church plant in France from our Church in the UK. We trained a French Pastor and the Church has been growing for the past five or six years now.

A modern translation like the La Bible, Nouvelle Edition de Geneve 1979 (Louis Segond) is the one I use but I only have it in book / paper format!

It would be good to have it in a logos formatBig Smile

Posts 31
Jonty | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 11:23 AM

I would also love some newer French Bibles. I am presently learning French in Paris before going to work as a missionary in W Africa. In some ways I would prefer to pay to get a good contemporary version than for logos to spend time on old versions.

By the way which do you think is the best current French version?

1. For accuracy with the original Hebrew and Greek (Use Greek myself)

2. For current and easy to use language (going to be working in W Africa)

I am presently using the 'La Parole de Vie' and the 'Du Semeur', but have also heard the Segond21 is good.

 

My website: http://www.mackwell.co.nr/ the website of the missionary organization: http://www.wec-int.org/cms/ 

Posts 129
Tom Blanchard | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 12:47 PM

Hi, Jonty

Most conservative scholars in France prefer the Nouvelle Version Segond Révisée, 1978, more popularly known as "La Colombe," due to the dove on almost all its bindings. It is also the version used in the original French version of the Thompson Chain. If you get one, be sure to get the larger version with "notes intégrales," very good translation and variant notes.

The Société Biblique Française has been pushing their new NBS (Nouvelle Bible Segond) since 2002. Many of my colleagues (I'm an OT prof in Geneva) do NOT like either the NBS translation or the intros, for various reasons.  I share their opinion.

The old Louis Segond had issues, some corrected in the Nouvelle Edition de Genève (1975, 1979), some corrected in the Segond21. But none of these is as good as the Colombe, IMHO.

If you want simple accuracy to the Hebrew and Greek, get a French Darby version. Extremely precise! Yet almost unreadable for public use and teaching. It's a comparison Bible to keep on your desk.

The Semeur is good, a little looser than the NIV, easy to read. The Bible d'étude du Semeur is an excellent study Bible, as good as (if not better) than the ESV Study Bible, in terms of its notes and intros.

For first time Bible readers, or for those who have difficulty reading, the Parole de Vie you mentioned (also called "français fondamental") is very good. Just don't use it for serious study.

Bottom line: for the average layman, at least in France: Colombe avec notes intégrales, plus the Bible d'étude du Semeur. Good one-two combination. 

Things may be stirring in the French-speaking world. Do you think we should ask for our own Forum category in French, like the Spanish-speaking brethren? That might be helpful. Après tout, le français est une des langues les importantes du monde, et certainement, parmi les plus belles, n'est-ce pas?

 

Posts 13
SAGLIETTO daniel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 12:48 PM

Hi,

I've tried a lot, and personnaly i prefer The French Bible Louis second version la colombe (1978) .La parole de Vie is not a traduction, technically speaking , but still good, and i have never liked the "semeur" , too much interpreted for some verses. I know that traduction can't be word for word ...but i think that the "La colombe" version is the best compromise and if you'll work in W Africa, the langage is not too old . Louis second 1910 would be too old. But i don't like the segond21, because they uses words with less strengh ( for example "propitiation" and "repentance" are words (same words in French), i think, we need to keep this words because they a mean a lot more and are deeper than "sacrifice" and "changement de comportement" ..i think..and with this words we can explain theology more deeply.

Anyway, i will tell that for accuracy and langage , i will choose the bible second "la colombe" ( and many  other students and teachers at the French reformed seminary uses this one).

Bless,

dan

Soli Deo Gloria.....toujours !!!!

http://danielsaglietto.blogspot.com/

Posts 129
Tom Blanchard | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 12:52 PM

We're on the same page, Daniel. Thanks. Are you a teacher or student at Aix?

Posts 77
Adrian Frost | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 1:15 PM

It's truly wonderful to see French speakers popping up in this thread! I'm a pastor in the Belgian Ardennes, been working in Belgium for nearly 9 years. I got into Logos in 2006 and have found it be an enormous help. The only disappointment has been the lack of French resources - something I've mentioned in the old newsgroups.

The SESB is worth getting if you have the financial possibility. I like being able to have access to the Nouvelle Bible Segond although we use the version de Genève of the Louis Segond in the church. The Louis Segond that is available for Logos is the 1910 public domain version I believe. It's OK but you need to check it against something more modern. I've nearly tripped up more than once by not cross checking with the 1979 revised LS.

I do like the NBS though, as Tom says, it's not without its faults. The most contraversial ones occur where they've replaced more traditional words for newer words - the highlight being where ressuciter (to resurrect) has been replaced with "reveiller" (to wake up). Tom can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that although "reveiller" might be more accurate, literally speaking, it tends not to sit well with people and actually ends up doing more harm than good, even if it does score points for fidelity. There are other examples but they escape me for the moment. The changes can be a handy launching point for sermons though Smile

Anyway, a French forum would be great - maybe encourage more people to post if they realise that there are actually quite a few French speakers about. Might also show Logos that the French speaking market has some value. I'd love to be able to recommend Logos to other pastors here but there is, basically, no point. The competition (naming no names) has a lot of French bibles and resources but a truly atrocious user interface. Calling it competition is too kind...

Vive le forum français!

 

Eglise Protestante Evangélique de Libramont, Belgique - www.epelibramont.com

Posts 77
Adrian Frost | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 1:21 PM

Just re-read your post Daniel and realised that you touched on similar issues with the likes of the words for propitiation and repentance. They dilute the force of what is being said without really adding much because you need to do so much explaining... that's generally why I avoid the NBS for preaching though I do occasionally make reference to it.

Eglise Protestante Evangélique de Libramont, Belgique - www.epelibramont.com

Posts 129
Tom Blanchard | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 13 2009 11:03 PM

Adrian, you're right on regarding the NBS. And they've also replaced good words with very old, obscure ones. Why replace "racheter" with "rédimer"? Do a search in the "competition" with "rédim*" in the NBS.  Il n'y a pas un français sur 100 qui comprendrait ce vieux mot. While I'm not sure that many would be able to explain "racheter" either, at least it is a part of the French Christian vocabulary. But "rédimer"? People are more likely to think that some anglophone is just francisizing "redeem" because he didn't know the right word, "racheter" Sad

Posts 13
SAGLIETTO daniel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 14 2009 12:02 AM

hey, i am a student in Aix.

Soli Deo Gloria.....toujours !!!!

http://danielsaglietto.blogspot.com/

Posts 13
SAGLIETTO daniel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 14 2009 12:07 AM

ok,

Je suis d'accord !!! I think logos ' forum should have a french forum ( like for our spanish bro') , even more when we think that french is spoken in a lot of  differents counries and a lot of "missional fields" in Africa!!

but i don't know how to do , i am quite a newbie !!

And i think it should  be great to speak in french about logos.

We need need to press on until we have our french forum !!!Smile

Que le Seigneur vous bénisse tous chers fréres,

Dan

..Soli Deo Gloria...

Soli Deo Gloria.....toujours !!!!

http://danielsaglietto.blogspot.com/

Posts 37
Dan | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 4 2009 7:03 AM

I find the TOB to be best for academic study (but disregard the introductory notes) - I am surprised no one has mentioned the TOB.

For ministry outside of the classroom --- Francais Courant or PDV.

I teach theology in Dakar, Senegal.

Posts 26
Jean Maurais | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 4 2009 8:22 AM

I agree, it shouldn't be too difficult to have more French resources available, considering there are many free ones around. I wouldn't mind paying for a package of more recent French Bibles either, but the SEBS package is quite pricey.

Let's all post in the suggestions section!

Jean

Posts 77
Adrian Frost | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 4 2009 8:52 AM

Because I speak French as a second language I do 90% of my study in English whilst also referring to all four of the French versions that I have. It would be nice to have more versions available within Logos but I have to say that of all my Logos purchases so far, SESB has to be one of the most useful. As well as the French bible versions there's a whole bunch of text critical stuff that has proved to be useful to me as well. Having the critical apparatus to the NA27 (I only have SESB v1) and a few other resources too, has been really nice.

For me, one reason to want more resources available in French is so that I can encourage other pastors that I know to start using Logos. At the moment it simply isn't a particularly attrcative proposition for someone who doesn't speak much, or any, English.

Eglise Protestante Evangélique de Libramont, Belgique - www.epelibramont.com

Posts 26
Jean Maurais | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 4 2009 12:07 PM

I agree. But to attract more people not too familiar with English, we would need more than just French bibles. A  basic Greek-French lexicon and bible dictionary would be a minimum.

I live in Quebec and my native language is French, but I work in English and spent a few years in the USA. Still, the church I attend is French-speaking and every sermon or Bible study I prepare is in French.

There are several seminary students here using Logos (including myself), and I'm sure they would purchase any kind of French resources if they were made available.

Posts 26
Jean Maurais | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 4 2009 12:12 PM

I appreciate your comments about French Bible translations. My main Bible is the Semeur Study Bible and I really appreciate the notes, intro to the various books and cross-references. Much much better than the Scofield I used to have. Having read Louis Segond for so many years, it was really refreshing to switch to a more "modern" translation although, as others have mentionned, there is a lot of paraphasing (and interpretation) done in some places.

About the SESB, do the French versions provided have any other features besides the plain text? The Louis Segond book in Logos is just text, no footnotes, no cross-references or anything else.

Posts 129
Tom Blanchard | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 4 2009 12:59 PM

Bonjour, Daniel... it's good to see another "francophone" on the site!

You're right that we didn't mention the TOB in the earlier postings. It's not as popular in most evangelical circles. Traditional Reformed Protestants and some Catholics prefer it. The introductory notes in most versions, as you mentioned, are generally quite full of the older, higher-critical ideas. I don't care for that.

And I have to admit that I'm not always very happy with it as a translation, either, especially in the OT. I think that it far too frequently favors either the ancient versions or questionable emandations of the the Hebrew text, when the Hebrew text might be difficult but perfectly understandable. By the way, the BFC often has the same problem, IMHA. That's not to say that neither of them doesn't sometimes offer a wonderfully brillant translation "ou plutôt une belle tournure d'une phrase."

The PDV communicates well, but outside the classroom, as you said. Actually, the Bible de Jérusalem is really a pretty good translation, too, and not bad for study. You just have to take their notes with a grain of salt, too. I still prefer the Colombe overall for a basic, faithful text.

 

Posts 129
Tom Blanchard | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 4 2009 1:09 PM

Bonsoir, Jean

Tout à fait d'accord! The Bible d'étude du Semeur (BES) is an awesome study bible due to its intros and notes. I've been working through the new ESV Study Bible, which has a great reputation, and I frequently "reste sur ma faim" and end up going to the BES for a better explanation. 

Maybe one of you can confirm this, but I think the SESB does have the full intros and notes of the Nouvelle Bible Segond (NBS) study edition. Problem is, I personally don't think that they are the greatest, nor is the translation. It's probably better than the TOB, though.

Peut-être y aura-t-il un miracle pour nous francophones en 2010 ?! Ce serait chouette !

 

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