I have lost resources because of switching to L4
If you switch from L3 Scholars OC to the L4 engine without paying the cost to upgrade, you will lose some resources. I paid for the minimal crossgrade but I did not upgrade, and therefore, I did not get the harmonies. *****There may be a misunderstanding somewhere, so this initial post is subject to change*******
See Bradley Grainger's response below.
"The harmonies, lectionaries, Biblical People etc. in Logos 4 are completely redone resources, and not just "ports" of the LDLS3 data files. A crossgrade [I think he technically means upgrade] to a LE collection is required to access them."
I have lost these resources by "upgrading" to L4.
Comments
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Kevin,
I'm sorry that that is dissapointing and that you feel misled. However, you're not losing any resources. You still have access to the old ones in 3.0. As Bradley notes, they are completely redone resources, in other words, they are new resources for 4.0. You should really consider the minimum crossgrade/upgrade. 4.0 is wonderful, and the rebuilt resources are very nice, as are new 4.0 specific resources you're missing out on (biblical things, places, etc.).
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Kevin, welcome to the unsatisfied customer club! There are hundreds of us at this time.
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David, I can't think of any other software company that would dare something like this. The resources are mine (right?), but now they will not work. This is probably the worst software transition I've ever been involved in.
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Kevin,
In fact the software company you use most does this all the time. Check out the differences on Operating systems from Microsoft and you'll see that features come and go.
That said, Logos has intentionally and frequently stated that since L4 is such a radical departure that for the forseable future, L3 is still a viable option being supported. Everything you have still works in L3. I know this isn't really going to solve your feelings here, but it is a truth that needs pointed out.
Not part of your question but a helpful link for others reading the forum and arriving here: Resources -FAQ
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
KevinJones said:
David, I can't think of any other software company that would dare something like this. The resources are mine (right?), but now they will not work. This is probably the worst software transition I've ever been involved in.
Needless to say, I am not exactly sanguine about this myself as I have expressed elsewhere. In defense of Logos, however, you must remember that the harmonies etc were never resources and therefore you have LOST NO RESOURCES. It would be nice though if Logos were to supply these to those who already have them or make them available separately at a small charge without the necessity to upgrade to a much larger package.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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KevinJones said:
David, I can't think of any other software company that would dare something like this. The resources are mine (right?), but now they will not work. This is probably the worst software transition I've ever been involved in.
I can see your point. Personally, I have always viewed Lectionaries and Biblical People as a function of the program rather then a resource. Harmonies I could go either way on. However I can understand where you are coming from. I would have more of a problem with it if L3 were being completely ditched. For instance, suppose a book comes out in a 3rd addition and you own the second. The third updates some states and adds a supplemental section. You have two choices. Continue to use the 2nd addition, or purchase the entire new addition. With each of these things you have the same choice, use it with the old cover (L3) or upgrade it to a new cover (L4)
As far as any other company, I can think of lots. As of matter of fact I'm not sure of any other Bible software company That works the way Logos does. Usually I'll pay this year, and next year I pay an upgrade price or keep the old platform. Logos is the only program I know of that attempts to allow perpetual access to any resource you purchase. They have thus far done an excellent job of keeping that promise. These three are the only possible exceptions that I can think of.
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KevinJones said:
David, I can't think of any other
software company that would dare something like this. The resources are
mine (right?), but now they will not work. This is probably the worst
software transition I've ever been involved in.No. You've been freely given a whole new program with significant
enhancements and improvements in functionality for working with your
whole library of books. You can choose to pay for some of the new
resources or not - either upgrading to the equivalent library, or the minimal crossgrade which just includes the resources that are needed to use some of the new features. Or you can continue to use version 3 instead or alongside
version 4.You're right though, I can't think of another software company that would 'dare' do something like that...
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Ahh Yes George. The proverbial "loophole." On the comparison page, it doesn't list the harmonies etc as new resources. They are in the same category as the rest of the resources (i.e., it implies they were resources in L3).
What other loopholes will emerge tomorrow?
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KevinJones said:
David, I can't think of any other software company that would dare something like this. The resources are mine (right?), but now they will not work. This is probably the worst software transition I've ever been involved in.
Kevin, I couldn't really believe my eyes seeing the thread you started. How in the world you can come to these conclusions. You are not loosing anything, but you are not (of course) gaining anything if you do not upgrade. It is not fair to Logos and it is misleading to other people what you announced on this forum.
P.S. Just one example: some years ago I bought Photoshop Elements v3. After some time Photoshop E. v4 came. I would have to pay for the upgrade, but I did not. I am able to use v3 till now, but I am not, since the software is old and obsolete today. Is it the problem of Adobe or my decision not to upgrade? I don't need 1 second to find answer to that.
Bohuslav
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Yes I could always stay with L3, but eventually I will want to purchase a set of books or a book that will only be available on L4.
Jon, I understand where you are coming from, but don't you at least think that I should have the same abilities and resources I had in L3. I have been a good customer for years, and spent a ton of money by my standards. How about in 2 years, they come out with the "new platform" that you will need to purchase so you can use your features. It will not make you happy when your the one who lost features and functions. Evidently, this is not affecting you.
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I'm not clear. I have lost the harmonies. You said I haven't lost anything. What do you mean?
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BOHUSLAV
I changed my title so as not to offend.
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KevinJones said:
I'm not clear. I have lost the harmonies. You said I haven't lost anything. What do you mean?
I'm not sure to whom you are responding, Although I clicked on "replied" to check, it still isn't clear so I will respond for two differing situations.
1. The harmonies etc were never resources but functions of the program so you have not lost any RESOURCES.
2. Since you can still use L3 you still have access to those functions there.george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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I am sure posters are not hearing or understanding what Logos is trying to say.
I have lost my V3 Homepage in V4 but the V3 Homepage was design for V3 and cannot be transferred to V4. V4 does have it's own Homepage. No actual resource purchased has been lost, the V3 engine is free!
Let those who feel done by Logos run a passage guide report in V3 on Matt 5. Nothing shows up in V3 but you get an entry in V4. The biblical people report in V3 was design for V3 it is not something that can be transferred. One still has it in V3, operational because that was where it was design to function in. Logos has not withdrawn the bible people report from V3.
Ted
Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ
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Thanks for the help guys. I understand what you are all saying, but the bottom line is that a core function/resource is gone for me unless I shell out alot more money. I guess this type of graded platform lends itself to this kind of issue. I guess I'm not really going to find an answer, but I think other people should know about this before they invest alot of time in upgrading and learning the program only to find out that the harmonies are gone.
It seems that the minimal crossgrade should have protected me from this. I guess that will just be my opinion.
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KevinJones said:
It seems that the minimal crossgrade should have protected me from this. I guess that will just be my opinion.
Wait a minute...you purchased the Minimal Crossgrade and did not get these resources?
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KevinJones said:
It seems that the minimal crossgrade should have protected me from this.
Sorry
Kevin, do you mean that you did get the minimal crossgrade? In that
case you should definitely have the harmonies working. In L4 they are
built as books which you access from Library, rather than a tool in a
menu somewhere...Open a library tab and enter type:harmony, they should all come up
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Kevin, I definitely don't think you're alone in this. I've spent enough time in the forums to know that. [:)]KevinJones said:It seems that the minimal crossgrade should have protected me from this. I guess that will just be my opinion.
I also believe, based on one of these posts, that you do understand that L3 continues to have all the same functionality as ever and that your concern is over the L4 minimal crossgrade. As I reflect on that, I think I have to agree with you in principle here.
Resources that are "upgraded" from L3 > L4 are recompiled to take advantage of L4's technology. I believe the point of division is that the items you reference are not an upgrade, but are in fact entirely new "resources" (term used loosely) built from the ground up. Whether right or wrong in your eyes, I think this is the distinction that caused Logos to make it's decision.
PS: Thanks for changing the title out of deference to Bohuslav - it shows the right spirit. On the technical side: I had no idea you could do that!
Grace to you,
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
Correct. I purchased the crossgrade and didn't get the harmonies. I have spent a couple hours on the phone with tech support and they were unable to help.
Bradley's quote seems to indicate that I would need to purchase the Logos LE upgrade to have the harmonies. I am having a hard time swallowing this since I purchased the crossgrade, I previously had the harmonies, and they are not listed as new resources on the product comparison page (implying they are already baked into the system or provided as resources).
They are not there.
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Alright. I feel like I'm not being very clear, so I apologize. I'm watching the kids while trying to have a discussion on the forum and it's proving to be very difficult.
So, I purchased the crossgrade for my package (Silver OC) for $69, but Bradley's quote seems to mean that I must upgrade to Silver LE edition to have the functions I used to have in L3.
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KevinJones said:
Correct. I purchased the crossgrade and didn't get the harmonies. I have spent a couple hours on the phone with tech support and they were unable to help.
Bradley's quote seems to indicate that I would need to purchase the Logos LE upgrade to have the harmonies. I am having a hard time swallowing this since I purchased the crossgrade, I previously had the harmonies, and they are not listed as new resources on the product comparison page (implying they are already baked into the system or provided as resources).
They are not there.
This throws a different light to your complaint, if you have cross-graded.
Ted
Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ
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KevinJones said:
Bradley's quote seems to indicate that I would need to purchase the Logos LE upgrade to have the harmonies. I am having a hard time swallowing this since I purchased the crossgrade, I previously had the harmonies, and they are not listed as new resources on the product comparison page (implying they are already baked into the system or provided as resources).
The Harmony's should absolutely be included in the minimal CrossGrade. If they are not, then the website needs to be changed immediately and those who purchased the crossgrade so far should be given a free license to these things. This is from http://www.logos.com/minimalcrossgrade
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And further down the page.......
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Philip, wow.
You are correct? I guess we need to get this checked out. I want to remove my post if this is an error, but Bradley's post seems to indicate that I would need to pay for the LE upgrade from my OC package which would have been another $160 I don't have.
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Settle Philip [:)]
I'm sure you're misunderstanding what Bradley wrote, the only advantage of getting the Silver LE upgrade over the minimal crossgrade is a whole pile more new books really cheap [;)]
This is sounding more like an issue with
not having downloaded the new resources yet or perhaps a stuff-up with
licences synching or something like that. Type 'type:harmony' into a
library tab and compare that to the list on the minimal crossgrade page
-anything come up? Also under Tools, are Biblical People/Places/Things
greyed out or accessible? If these all aren't available they're yet to
download or your licences are synchronising properly. Try typing
"Update now" in the command box and give it 10 minutes to work, see if
it comes up with anything to download.0 -
Jon,
I have spent alot of time doing everything you're saying. I did that stuff for a couple of days and then I called tech support and they said they thought the resources should be there, but they are not. I have upgraded resources and upgraded now repeatedly. I have tried everything. This needs to be cleared up on Logos' end.
I honestly have done all the troubleshooting I can do.
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KevinJones said:
Correct. I purchased the crossgrade and didn't get the harmonies. I have spent a couple hours on the phone with tech support and they were unable to help.
Bradley's quote seems to indicate that I would need to purchase the Logos LE upgrade to have the harmonies. I am having a hard time swallowing this since I purchased the crossgrade, I previously had the harmonies, and they are not listed as new resources on the product comparison page (implying they are already baked into the system or provided as resources).
They are not there.
Sorry Kevin if my language was too harsh. I did not realize you bought a minimal crossgrade. I understand your frustration and hope it will be clarified from Logos. Logos 4 on the other hand is so great product that it is worth of upgrading. That's IMHO.
Bohuslav
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Bohuslav, you're fine man. In retrospect, I realize I wasn't very clear in my communication.
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Philip Spitzer said:KevinJones said:
It seems that the minimal crossgrade should have protected me from this. I guess that will just be my opinion.
Wait a minute...you purchased the Minimal Crossgrade and did not get these resources?
The minimal package which contains all of the Parallel Passages and Harmonies is the Scholar's Library. I have the Original Languages Library so I have some, but not all (or course, I don't have the one that I really want).
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Bradley is right- in L3 they were associated with a function- not an actual resource, in L4 they are a resource listed in your library. Check you L3 library search harmony or harmonys- I beieve you will on show 1 resource.
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Whyndell,
I have done this for a long time now. They are not in my library. I have spent hours on the forums working through this and a couple hours over the phone with tech support. They are not in my library, but it sounds like they should be. The product comparison shows that they should be. Bradley's comment sounds like I would need to upgrade my OC package to LE to have those resources. This is not what the website says however.
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