Logos4's 'Note File' functionality is missing significant Logos3 functionality

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SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 22 2010 10:51 AM

Jeremiah Daniel Morris:
I want to keep my Bible study material IN my Bible study program!

So far, the only way I have found to do this was either making a PBB or using the Sermon File.

With Logos' determination "not" to make a "word" processor the only other way for me is using M$ Word, and creating a lot of folders and using Google Desktop to search through them. Yes, One Note could probably do something like this too, as well as come of the commercial "journalling" software, etc..

But as far as the Logos Notes function -- it is just too...... etc. With the stated goal for notes as a "quick jot" pad etc there is just NO point.

 

Regards, SteveF

Posts 3578
steve clark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 22 2010 9:40 PM

Jeremiah Daniel Morris:
Can I hyperlink a clipping to a note file?

Mark Barnes did a series of 3 videos on using L4 to build a sermon. In the 2nd video Note Taking he details how to use Favorites to tie together Clippings and Notes. So if you watch this video and practice using Favorites you might discover that his method is better than putting hyperlinks of clippings inside your notes.

Below is a screen shot of his video (i have inserted the red text in balloons)

Links to his videos are in the wiki Here

Hint: to place a link to a clipping into Favorites,

  • make sure that you have Favorites open in your layout
  • click on File in the toolbar
  • click on the clipping file and drag it to Favorites
  • rename the new link in your favorites
  • move the new link into a folder of your choice
  • You can do the same thing with Notes (dragging note file from File)


EDIT: you can nest a Folder inside Folders in Favorites. So under a single folder named Sermons, you could have other folders with names of individual sermons. And under each of these individual sermons you could have Notes & Clippings.

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Posts 496
John Duffy | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2010 2:15 AM

Doug:
Personally, I hope that everyone continues to voice an opinion on this on.  Maybe the Logos development team will listen.   I think something that needs to be made clear here is that our notes are resources too.  In fact, they may be our most important resources.

I too would love to see Notes being usable to keep personal study material within the Bible study program, instead of using OneNote or Word etc.  I'd like to add my voice to this chorus, and see some concrete proposals for improvement from Logos.  [I'll leave my comments on the ongoing general performace problems of L4 for another time...]

Posts 323
Doug | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2010 7:47 AM

Logos, are you guys listening?  This really would be an important feature for many users.  Can't you use OneNote or Evernote as a model to develop a note-taking feature inside L4 that would give us greater flexibility with organizing our notes.  It should also allow us the ability to reorganize, add graphics, use the styles that are available in OneNote or Evernote . . . you know, just be really good at taking, organizing, and keeping notes. 

Moving to WPF should give you a lot of great options where this is concerned.  I've been reading about WPF some and can see that it has some great classes for presenting data.  This should be a piece of cake for the great programmers at Logos.  Come on Bob, you could make a lot of us very happy by agreeing to this.

Posts 569
J. Morris | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2010 7:54 AM

steve clark:
So if you watch this video and practice using Favorites you might discover that his method is better than putting hyperlinks of clippings inside your notes.

Thank you very much Steve for responding to that part of my post, it is much appreciated.

I have seen Mark's video series (superb by the way) and will go back and review that section. 

-Hope you have a blessed day.

Posts 3578
steve clark | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2010 7:54 AM

Doug,

I agree with you.

But for an interim solution, i put up a wiki page outlining how to use Favorites to tie Notes & Clippings together along with many other resources. 

Wiki page http://wiki.logos.com/Favorites#The_power_of_Favorites

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Posts 569
J. Morris | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2010 7:59 AM

Doug:
In fact, they may be our most important resources

Absolutely unequivocally true.  Yet they have the least amount of functionality. 

-Sugg: Merge Clippings and Notes into one and then bring it up to par with what we had in L3. (I'd be sufficiently satisfied with this)...(at least for a while Wink )

Posts 323
Doug | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2010 8:03 AM

I just added a plea for better notes with a link to this thread to the suggestions forum.  I suggest that as many as possible go there an chime in so that hopefully we can get someone's attention.  It's a shame for this truely great program to suffer in the area of notes.  Let's let Logos lovingly know that we would appreciate their support in this area.  Thanks to everyone who will participate.

Posts 65
J. Bryant Evans | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2010 2:50 PM

This has been a terrible disappointment to me. I don't need any hi-level graphics capability but I do need the ability to use my notes. It's sad that no one from the company has been by this thread to give us an update.

 

The ultimate end of our studies requires that we bring things together into one place and Logos seems to be the perfect location.

 

C'mon guys, we are your customers and have invested much into your company through our purchases. Please help us out here.

Posts 301
Jerry Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2010 5:55 PM

I'll chime in once again with a plea for L3 notes and highlighting functionality in L4. Years of notes with cross-references to articles, commentaries, background tidbits, hyperlinks to PDFs, hyperlinks to word processor documents & hyperlinks in word processing documents back to L3, etc., plus years of marking up the text for quick reference need to be ported over to L4 so it becomes the super, prime-time study tool it can be.

I'm continuing to work in L3 and "play" in L4 until it's ready for serious work. I'd really appreciate some guess as to when this functionality might be available. In the meantime, it's hammer down working in L3!

And, don't hear all grumbling, I'm seriously ready for L4!

Posts 4625
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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2010 6:58 PM

Doug:

Personally, I hope that everyone continues to voice an opinion on this on.  Maybe the Logos development team will listen.   I think something that needs to be made clear here is that our notes are resources too.  In fact, they may be our most important resources.  For me, my notes represent my synthesis of all of the material I've absorbed while studying.  They are the fruit of countless hours of studying, mulling things over, tearing things apart and putting them back together, looking up definitions and morphologies . . .etc.  L4 should be a place that I can store and present those notes alongside my other resources.  The notes function should give me a lot of the same features as OneNote.  I want to be able to format, rearrange, organize, and place graphics in the notes.  This is a research program that is very good in most respects but even at its best (L3), the notes function has just barely been usable.  Please, please, please LOGOS, please listen to us on this issue.  Let's make the notes function a first-class feature of this first-class program.

Thank you, Doug!  You've hit the nail right on the head.  I concur 100 % with your post.  Notes are really important to me, and I wish L4 would at the very least match the notes capability of L3.  Thank you for your post.

..........Mel

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2010 7:04 PM

Jeremiah Daniel Morris:

Doug:
In fact, they may be our most important resources

Absolutely unequivocally true.  Yet they have the least amount of functionality. 

-Sugg: Merge Clippings and Notes into one and then bring it up to par with what we had in L3. (I'd be sufficiently satisfied with this)...(at least for a while Wink )

That, Jeremiah, is precisely where I am at right now!

........Yours in Christ ..................       Mel

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 43
Douglas | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 31 2010 11:19 AM

Does the new Logos 4 application yet have the functionality to import our super-important precious Notes from Logos 3?  I have not been able to find it.  I recall reading that it was intended to be added by Logos in 4Q 2009 or 1Q 2010 (http://www.logos.com/4/missingfeatures).

Posts 3578
steve clark | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 31 2010 11:31 AM

Yes you can. It was added for Logos4 version 4.0b

See http://wiki.logos.com/Importing_from_LDLS3

Please pay attention to step 1, it will send you to http://wiki.logos.com/Importing_Notes_from_LDLS3  for preparing your L3 notes first.

 

 

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Posts 43
Douglas | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 31 2010 1:57 PM

Thanks. That seemed to work great.

My next problem is this:  I just imported my somewhat-commented "47" Note Files from Logos 3, and it appears to me that even when I simply start-up the Logos 4 application (tried several times), the screen flashes for each(?) Note File I imported, taking about 5-30 seconds for each flash, at which time the application is completely inaccessible.  I have a pretty fast computer, btw (Intel Core 2 Duo Processor at 2.6 GHz each processor;  4GB RAM). Perhaps it is trying to figure out where "all" those notes go in my open Bible, instead of just determining this on the fly when I get to a certain set of passages that appear in the open Bible's window.

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 31 2010 2:08 PM

DouglasMarkevich:

Thanks. That seemed to work great.

My next problem is this:  I just imported my somewhat-commented "47" Note Files from Logos 3, and it appears to me that even when I simply start-up the Logos 4 application (tried several times), the screen flashes for each(?) Note File I imported, taking about 5-30 seconds for each flash, at which time the application is completely inaccessible.  I have a pretty fast computer, btw (Intel Core 2 Duo Processor at 2.6 GHz each processor;  4GB RAM). Perhaps it is trying to figure out where "all" those notes go in my open Bible, instead of just determining this on the fly when I get to a certain set of passages that appear in the open Bible's window.

In this case (as with L3), you'll get faster startup times by not loading all your note files. After starting, if you click on the visual filters (the one with the 3 circles, just to the right of the reference box) button on the Bible tab, scroll down to your note files and then deselect for the current tab, by unchecking the box. You can also deselect for all resources by right-clicking on the note name and clicking on that function.

Lots of notes and lots of visual filters will slow down Logos 4's startup, but once it's running, it runs just as fast with no notes selected as with all (at least for me). So you may want to consider just letting it start up with everything, so that everything is available to you. For me, this means starting L4, and then getting a cup of coffee. By the time I sit down, it's done loading.

At least that's my experience.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 43
Douglas | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 31 2010 2:38 PM

Thanks for your response.  In my experience, though, the L3 / Logos 3 application was quite fast in starting up with many Note Files relative to the newer L4 / Logos 4 application.  As a software developer myself, I suspect that the Logos app developers can do much to improve / optimize this, which in my opinion, is a fairly significant issue.

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 31 2010 3:40 PM

There has been and continues to be improvements in L4's performance. However they have been trying (I believe) time spent optimizing with time spent writing code for new features. I read in another post some time back that Bob P had a sign in his office that read "code first, then optimize". I don't know if that is true or not but that seems to be the way it is going.

The other issue that seems to affect performance is user hardware. I had L3 running on a laptop running Win Vista 32 bit with 2Gb of RAM. I knew when I purchased L4 I would need to upgrade to 4Gb. Graphics cards also seem to play a significant performance role based on what I have read on other threads. Visit the following Wiki page link if you have not already done so. You may find some helpful suggestions there.

http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_Running_Slowly

 

Posts 43
Douglas | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 31 2010 8:32 PM

Richard:  I tested your solution of deselecting all Note Files across all resources, and it didn't seem to decrease the application startup time for me. I even de-selected all sorts of other options like:  "Links to Open Panels", "Sympathetic Highlighting", "Use Internet", "Show Visual Clues", "Show Search Bookmarks" ... and none of these seemed to decrease the application startup time either. So far on my pretty fast computer the startup time is clocked at about 3 minutes and 30 seconds with approximately 13-14 screen turn-blank flashes. Interestingly, I also have approximately 13-14 resources (Bibles, Commentaries, etc.) open that allow selecting / deselecting of the Note Files. I'll bet there is a connection... it appears that the Note Files are checked against each resource without respect to whether they are turned on or off for that particular resource. Oh well. Anyone else with some ideas?

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 1 2010 8:25 AM

DouglasMarkevich:

Richard:  I tested your solution of deselecting all Note Files across all resources, and it didn't seem to decrease the application startup time for me. I even de-selected all sorts of other options like:  "Links to Open Panels", "Sympathetic Highlighting", "Use Internet", "Show Visual Clues", "Show Search Bookmarks" ... and none of these seemed to decrease the application startup time either. So far on my pretty fast computer the startup time is clocked at about 3 minutes and 30 seconds with approximately 13-14 screen turn-blank flashes. Interestingly, I also have approximately 13-14 resources (Bibles, Commentaries, etc.) open that allow selecting / deselecting of the Note Files. I'll bet there is a connection... it appears that the Note Files are checked against each resource without respect to whether they are turned on or off for that particular resource. Oh well. Anyone else with some ideas?

When you deselected your note files, did you just uncheck them, or did you right click and select "Do not show in any resource"? If you simply unchecked them, then I think you're right. Logos will load them (and the entire custom highlighting palette you designed for your notes) first and then see that you don't want to see them in this instance. If you select "Do not show in any resource" Logos will not load the note file, nor the custom palette for any note file you don't load.

Do you have any visual filters active? If so do they use any of your custom highlighting palettes imported from L3?

Do you have any highlighting active? Do these have their own custom highlighting palettes? What happens if you deselect these (using the same method as deselecting notes: "Do not show in any resource")?

How many resources open when you start L4?

Do you have any tools open when you start (Power Lookup, Explorer, Cited By, Text Comparison, etc.)?

Do you have any guides open when you start(Passage, Exegetical, Bible Word Study)?

When you start Logos, do you open to your last layout, or to the home page?

Does the same thing happen when you open to a blank screen? (If you open Logos to the your last layout, save your layout, so you can restore it later, then type close all in the L4 command bar. Then close and restart Logos. How long does it take now?

If you open your primary Bible (e.g. type NIV in the command bar - or ESV, or whichever is the one you use most), after opening to a blank layout, how long does it take?

Now, close that Bible and go to layouts and select the layout you just saved. How long does it take to open?

(On a cold start this morning (after a system reboot) Logos 4 started for me in about 90 seconds (with 15 resources open, including 6 Bibles, with highlighting (8 schemes), visual filters (2 schemes) and notes (45) all active, plus an open search and custom guide (neither of which was in visible at startup).

 

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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