Frustrated and Disappointed...

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This post has 19 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 15
Gene W. | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Nov 3 2012 12:19 AM

 

What is disappointing and frustrating to me is that I was saving for the Leaders Library which it's equivalent is now obviously far more... no make that insanely more expensive. Serving *from my location* we don't have the luxury of just buying things as we see them, I was carefully planning my purchase and timing it for end of year. Now that's out the window because even if I could (which I cannot) I will not pay the Logos 5 price for the equivalent of the Logos 4 Leaders Library as it would be an irresponsible use of funding when Wordsearch and Bible Explorer do the same job, except less pretty and not on my Android tablet. I was saving for Logos 4 to use on my tablet because it would be great to have a tool at my fingertips that does not require a mobile connection or wifi at all times that I could use in this field.

What Logos has developed is amazing and I know it must cost small fortunes to continue developing, acquiring rights, and so on. I also fully understand Logos is not a charity and needs to be profitable. That being said, in my observation over this last year Logos is not really a very generous company towards consumers in comparison to other "Christian" businesses I have dealt with who also have an interest in profitability.

I am absolutely not looking for a freebie or something for nothing but as I was saving and planning for an end of year purchase, your product is now completely out of reach for me. What I believe you do not understand is there is an army of servants out here in whose lives and ministries a $500 or even a $300 purchase is substantial and in the name of financial accountability must be planned. The same purchase at $1000 would be out of the question.

Again, it's an amazing product and a beautiful one as well. You will have no trouble continuing to grow and develop, but unfortunately I am out.

 

Husband, Dad, Expat to Northern Europe. I serve people, share hope, & write about simple theology for a messy life at genewhitehead.com.

Posts 2279
Andy | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 12:34 AM

Gene Whitehead:
What is disappointing and frustrating to me is that I was saving for the Leaders Library which it's equivalent is now obviously far more... no make that insanely more expensive.

Hi Gene,

Firstly, I am sorry that you are disappointed with the new L5 base packages. One think I thought I should mention, however, is that there as been some confusion with regards to the new package names.

Although Logos has reused some of the package names (Bronze, Silver, Gold, etc.) the contents are very different indeed. It would be better to regard them as new packages (albeit with a slight cross over with the old). By the same token, Logos has discontinued some packages (Leaders, Christian Home, etc.). However, the remaining packages have been redesigned in the hope (if not expectation) that they will meet the needs met by the previous offering. 

I wonder, therefore, if the starter package might fulfil the same requirements as the Leaders package (I do not recall the price of the Leaders package and so please accept my apologies if the disparity in price is greater than my recollection allows). The other alternative, if you already own a Logos package, is to wait for the free engine to be release (with stripped back features and none of the data bases) or the minimal costgrade which will move you across onto L5 with your features intact, but no additional resources.

If you are looking to get your foot on the first rung of the ladder (as it were), you could await the free engine and then add individual purchases as you so require. You would not, of course, have access to the databases and features, but it may help you get closer to a base package in the future (Logos is committed to never charging you twice for the same book, and so wisely selected purchases will result in the reduction in price of a future base package where it contains the resource in question).

May God bless you in your ministry.

Posts 2704
DominicM | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 12:34 AM

Gene, we have been told there is a crossgrade upgrade coming, which might be better value for you, and your ministry

Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have

Posts 15
Gene W. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 1:01 AM

I'll keep watch but pretty much convinced if I spend $50 for this book and $80 for that commentary it's going to be a long, slow, expensive road to anything useful. I hope to not sound so much as complaining as my original point was just that my planning and saving will do me no good because it would be absolutely foolish to spend what was planned for the Leaders Library on what is now the Starter, and then spend even more adding resources.

You know what would be helpful is some transparency on the part of Logos where we could compare what was in the 4 packages to what is in the 5 packages.

Of course the resources are absolutely amazing in any package, I really do comprehend the value, especially in comparison to print. And as for the software there is nothing else out there that is comparable. However some people have been severely out-priced by Logos, me included and I know I'm not alone. I will keep an eye out, but it could just be time for me to admit this software is simply out of my league!

Edit: A quick look at what I can remember to compare is the Leaders Library had about 350 books and was priced at $325. The new Bronze package would be closest with 426 "resources" and costs $630. Many more resources but I sure would like to see 4 vs 5 comparisons.

Husband, Dad, Expat to Northern Europe. I serve people, share hope, & write about simple theology for a messy life at genewhitehead.com.

Posts 2395
Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 4:16 AM

Gene,

I think that your experience is one reason why the release of a new version (Logos 5) should be announced ahead of time so you could have had the opportunity to purchase Logos 4.

Posts 2395
Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 4:35 AM

Leo,

This is great!

I would recommend starting a new thread and posting it.

Ron

Posts 17
Leo Koo | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 5:10 AM

Hey Ron! Actually, someone else created that and already posted it

Posts 2032
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 5:32 AM

Gene

The problem seems to be in the way the product is marketed.  The same problem appeared during the switch from L3 to L4.  Logos has not learned how to market their products to avoid frustration, disappointment and confusion. 

I view L5 as L4 fixed.  I think it will be an outstanding product.  But I would not compare the L4 packages with the L5 packages.  It appears they are completely redone.  That said, if you were considering leaders library in L4, I would simply forget that and look now as the new offers in L5.  The best pricing is now, so if one of the packages works for you, I would consider getting it before the price goes up.

 

Posts 124
GeoPappas | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 6:04 AM

Gene:

Why not just go ahead with your planned purchase of the Leader's Library.  You will then own all of those resources going forward.  You don't need to move to Logos 5 at this time.  You can stay with Logos 4.  If you feel the need to upgrade to Logos 5 in the future, you can choose to just do the free upgrade when it comes (and pay nothing), or do the minimal crossgrade (which will cost < $100).  But if, or when, you get a chance to upgrade to Logos 5, those resources from the Leader's Library will still be with you.

Blessings.

Posts 2032
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 6:13 AM

I do not think L4 is still for sale.  That means he could not do what you suggest

Posts 549
Shawn Drewett | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 6:19 AM

Gene Whitehead:

However some people have been severely out-priced by Logos, me included and I know I'm not alone. I will keep an eye out, but it could just be time for me to admit this software is simply out of my league!

I fit in this category!

 

Posts 521
Bob Deacon | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 6:21 AM

I am also one! 

Bob Deacon

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Posts 549
Shawn Drewett | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 6:24 AM

Gene Whitehead:

there is an army of servants out here in whose lives and ministries a $500 or even a $300 purchase is substantial and in the name of financial accountability must be planned. 

 

Me, me,me!

 

Posts 124
GeoPappas | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 6:32 AM

Mark:

I do not think L4 is still for sale.  That means he could not do what you suggest

Sorry, it seems that I misunderstood the OP's predicament.  I thought that the OP already owned L4 and was just trying to purchase another package.  But I now see if you own L4 that you can't even upgrade at this point.  IMO, Logos is making a mistake by forcing everyone to upgrade without any sort of warning.  They should have let people continue to purchase/upgrade L4 for a while (maybe 3-6 months).  At that point, they could have shutdown support to L4.

 

 

Posts 2032
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 6:35 AM

I have now looked extensively at the offerings and have come to some conclusions:

1.  I do not need new content and thus no offering is useful to me

2.  The L5 engine with all the databases are useful and Bob has mentioned that the pricing for just this (which is a cross grade) will be minimal (most likely less than $100).  Thus, upgrading to L5 with all databases should not be expensive. You will also have I will assume, several months to make the upgrade.

3.  Those who like L3 or L4 can continue to keep their package as they purchased them

Posts 4919
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 2:18 PM

Leo Koo:

This seems like it will be useful...however, I have a request. Please redo the X's in the L5 Portfolio column so that they are white on black. That is the column I need to reference and I can't see the X's. Thanks. Yes

Posts 15
Gene W. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 2:43 PM

Leo Koo:

Awesome!!

I also found this post and learned quite a bit from it, hopefully it sheds some light for others who haven't seen it also:

http://community.logos.com/forums/t/58259.aspx

Husband, Dad, Expat to Northern Europe. I serve people, share hope, & write about simple theology for a messy life at genewhitehead.com.

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 8:44 PM

GeoPappas:

Gene:

Why not just go ahead with your planned purchase of the Leader's Library.  You will then own all of those resources going forward.  You don't need to move to Logos 5 at this time.  You can stay with Logos 4.  If you feel the need to upgrade to Logos 5 in the future, you can choose to just do the free upgrade when it comes (and pay nothing), or do the minimal crossgrade (which will cost < $100).  But if, or when, you get a chance to upgrade to Logos 5, those resources from the Leader's Library will still be with you.

Mark:

I do not think L4 is still for sale.  That means he could not do what you suggest

I have seen a couple of people on the forums who've bought L4 packages after the L5 launch.

My recommendation would be the same as GeoPappas': call (or e-mail) a sales rep and ask if you can't still buy the package you planned to buy. If you don't have all the money yet, pay what you have, and put the remainder on an 1-2 month payment plan. (I don't normally recommend payment plans, but $5-10 for the chance to get a discontinued package seems worthwhile.) Then get the free upgrade to L5 when it comes, and perhaps the Minimal Crossgrade when you can afford it.

It is possible that some of the junior sales reps don't know how to handle a request like this. If you run into trouble, ask for Santiago Galeano who's the Sales Director. I believe you can call via Skype, or ask Logos to call you, in order to save on the phone call.

And talking about freebies, I hope you know about all the freebies on logos.com and vyrso.com?

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 5573
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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 3 2012 8:53 PM

Gene Whitehead:
What is disappointing and frustrating to me is that I was saving for the Leaders Library which it's equivalent is now obviously far more... no make that insanely more expensive.

Gene, I'm hoping that you've been looking at the wrong page (as some have in the last couple of days), and that looking at the right one, might make the jump to the base package that best meets your needs seem a bit more reasonable. In fact, unless they just fixed it, it's hard to know that the upgrade page even exists.

Here's the right page: http://www.logos.com/upgrade

 

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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