Official: Minimum Crossgrade and free engine download are coming!

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Posts 1224
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Nov 2 2012 4:47 PM

We're very sorry that the Logos 5 upgrade message hasn't been clear enough.

Logos 5 will be available at many price points, and the free engine will be available soon. But it works best with new content and resources, which are available now as great deals!

We are working to improve the web site and messaging.

- Our packages have been dramatically reconfigured. (For lots of reasons.) Our new dynamic pricing engine calculates a custom price for you to 'upgrade' to any package. If you had 'Gold' in Logos 4, you don't have to move to 'Gold' in Logos 5 -- it's just a different collection of books. You could move to Bronze or Starter or Diamond -- whatever you choose, you only pay for new content. That's the same as always, and hasn't changed.

- Because the collections changed so much, though (some are gone, others are new, ones with the same name are very different), some users are seeing "Gold to Gold" or "Platinum to Platinum" upgrade prices that seem way too high. This reflects all the new content -- data sets, books, etc. -- in the new collections. But not everyone wants/needs/can-afford a lot of new books right now.

- There will be a Minimum Crossgrade for Logos 5. It is not ready yet, and pricing has not been established, but we expect it'll be under $100. (It will use dynamic pricing as well, but will probably be the same price for most users since almost all the content will be completely new to Logos 5.)

- The Minimal Crossgrade is being configured, but we expect it will contain all/most of the unique new data sets (Timeline, Bible Facts, Clause Database, Bible Sense Lexicon, Phrases, Preaching Themes, Thematic Outlines, etc.). Some Logos 5 features only "light-up" or add value when specific books are present, and we're figuring out which ones should be included in this crossgrade.

(The Minimal Crossgrade for Logos 5 is not the same as "Gold to Gold" or a 'same level' crossgrade -- it will not add the books in "Gold 5" to an existing "Gold 4" -- just the new data sets.)

NEW, Friday, 11/9: We've been looking at the interdependence of some of the data sets, and the fact that even for original purchasers, some of the new data sets / resources are only in Gold and above. So we're planning to split the crossgrade into two levels; the smaller one will likely be under $100, and appropriate for someone with CHL, BSL, Leader's, or Scholar's, and the larger one with have the language-related resources and data sets, too, and be somewhere over $100, depending on what you already own. It will be for people who had Scholar's, Silver, Gold, etc.

- The Logos 5 software engine will be available for free download in the future. It is not available yet, but will be. Upgrading just the engine will let you use some new functionality, take advantage of the new user interface, etc. You'll get the search helps, bibliography report, and more. But features that require specific new data sets -- like the new Timeline, Bible Facts, and the Bible Sense Lexicon -- aren't included.

- Why are these not available now? 17 years ago we made a decision to sell content, not code. We did this because we didn't like how people were forced to buy upgrades to maintain access to their library when computers and operating systems changed or were upgraded. We wanted our users to be able to buy an electronic book and know that they wouldn't have to pay again to read it just because Microsoft Windows was updated.

Over the years this turned into "you only buy books, the software is free!" And that has been the case for 17 years, and still is. And for all those years we have continued to offer free updates, free phone support, and excellent customer service. And we still will. 

But we pay the bills by selling new content. So when we have a major upgrade we reconfigure our bundles, create high-value collections, and hope that we can sell enough content to cover the ongoing, cost of free upgrades and free support for everyone who ever bought an ebook in our format.

You do not have to buy a level-to-level crossgrade. You do not need to buy more books. We will have a very affordable Minimal Crossgrade. We will have a free engine download. But since we have limited resources -- only so much bandwidth, servers, and (the real limit) phone-lines and people available to take calls and answer email -- we are focusing on selling those new content bundles first.

Once the phone queue slows down, and once we aren't helping people who do want to upgrade to a larger collection at a great price, we will put the Minimal Crossgrade up for sale. Then, some time after we've taken care of people who want to purchase that affordable crossgrade, we will put the free engine online, and offer the same level of free, friendly, phone or email support we've been providing for two decades -- even to people who bought one package a decade ago and have never purchased anything since. 

- Yes, but when? We're not sure, but it won't be a terribly long wait -- though it may feel that way if you've watched the Logos 5 videos! I know it's hard to wait when it looks (and is!) so cool....

You'll soon be able to move to the Logos 5 engine at no cost at all. You'll even have an option for adding the coolest new data sets at a very reasonable cost.

I'm so sorry we didn't make all of this clearer right from the start, and I hope you won't be offended by our "paying the bills" focus on selling the revenue-generating upgrade bundles for just a short while before we offer the low-cost and free alternatives.

-- Bob Pritchett, President/CEO

Posts 81
Robert C. Beckman Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 5:06 PM

Thank you for the prompt, clear and comprehensive answer. We do appreciate the effort. Many of us use this software so much that our attachment is more visceral than typically experienced with software. Speaking at least for myself, any perceived negativity was because I care.

Keep up the good work

 

Posts 93
Carey Pearson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 5:14 PM

Yes  good job, thanks Bob.

if we meet and you forget me,

you have lost nothing.

But if you meet Jesus and forget Him,

you have lost everything.

Posts 528
Jonathan Pitts | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 5:35 PM

Thanks, Bob. I hope this what the forums needed and that things settle down.

Please can you clarify one thing for me? Will all of the new features and databases be available separately?

I have Logos 4 Platinum. I would like all of the new features and databases but can't afford a major upgrade at present. Since there are a few resources that interest me, I was considering Logos 5 Silver. That would leave me without the Bible Sense Lexicon and without senses in Bible Word Study. A popup on the upgrade comparison page says that the Bible Sense Lexicon is sold separately for £12.45 GBP, but I couldn't find it for sale online. I phoned the sales team and was told that that price was only shown to make the discount calculator work and that the lexicon is not for sale separately. Is this true?

Posts 795
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 5:54 PM

Bob Pritchett:
There will be a Minimum Crossgrade for Logos 5. It is not ready yet, and pricing has not been established, but we expect it'll be under $100

This is helpful. Thanks for the clear information.

Posts 626
Jerry Bush | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 5:56 PM

Bob and Logos -

Not that you need more advice, but I would lock this Bob's post above at the top of the forums for awhile. It might help.

Jerry

Win7 - - Intel Core i3, 530 @ 2 .93GHz - - 6GB RAM ATI Radeon HD 5400 Series

Mt Gilead Church - Olney, IL

Posts 686
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 6:04 PM

Thanks, Bob, for the explanation. I was away from the forums for a day or so and was overwhelmed by the number of threads about the released-in-my-absence Logos 5. Smile I don't have time right now to see what all is going on with the upgrade options (Sunday is coming!), but I'll check it out the first of the week.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 1064
David J. Wilson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 6:06 PM

Thanks Bob:  Will wait patiently as there are a couple of "issues" right now delaying my decisions on new resources and which package to get:

  • no detailed listings available right now (Friday evening) of the content of the various Verbum packages - the "Compare" link which suggests you can compare detailed content of the various Verbum packages currently takes you to the general upgrade page comparing only Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum resources etc - Verbum Capstone and Verbum Master look potentially interesting, but I got a lot of my resources in the Library Builder package and it is not obvious these were considered "automatically" by the pricing algorithm.
  • seems to be an issue with many of my "new to me" resources being collections I already own (perhaps because some of my collections were assembled by means other than a direct purchase from Logos of the currently listed collection containing those titles)
  • The Upgrade page sorted by resources "new to you" does not "print" all the columns for all the pages, missing which are in Platinum, Diamond and Portfolio when you try to print the pages (using IE9) - doing a printout helps me check against existing resources as listed in Logos 4, given there is no access right now to "my account"

I don't expect everything to be sorted out and 100% functional the first day or two, will wait patiently for things to get ironed out ....Smile

EDIT: Found the link to the details of the Verbum packages : http://www.logos.com/catholic#compare

 

Posts 16644
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 6:09 PM

Bob Pritchett:
- There will be a Minimum Crossgrade for Logos 5. It is not ready yet, and pricing has not been established, but we expect it'll be under $100. (It will use dynamic pricing as well,

Treating it similar to an upgrade package makes a lot of sense and I agree that it should wait until the momentum for package upgrades slows down. It creates the possibility that one can upgrade to L5 Silver AND get the Crossgrade purely for the Bible Sense Lexicon!

Dave
===

Windows PC, Android phone

Posts 15
Paul B. Na | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 6:12 PM

Yes

Posts 28
Ken Hicks | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 6:13 PM

Thanks Bob. I greatly appreciate the clarity and your responsiveness.

Posts 155
KPK | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 6:31 PM

Bob Pritchett:

I'm so sorry we didn't make all of this clearer right from the start, and I hope you won't be offended by our "paying the bills" focus on selling the revenue-generating upgrade bundles for just a short while before we offer the low-cost and free alternatives.

Thank you! When I called yesterday they were able to take care of me with no issues. Glad I can support Logos.

Posts 976
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 6:40 PM

Thanks Bob! I need to look more closely at the content being offered.

Posts 4262
LogosEmployee
Bradley Grainger (Logos) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 7:19 PM

Jonathan Pitts:

Please can you clarify one thing for me? Will all of the new features and databases be available separately?

...A popup on the upgrade comparison page says that the Bible Sense Lexicon is sold separately for £12.45 GBP, but I couldn't find it for sale online. I phoned the sales team and was told that that price was only shown to make the discount calculator work and that the lexicon is not for sale separately. Is this true?

Yes, it is (and it's an error on the website that will be corrected): http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58026/414094.aspx#414094

The current plan is that new data sets will only be available in base packages.

It is possible (like any decision) that this could change in the future. However, consider the data sets from Logos 4 (e.g., Biblical People, Places, Things; Syntax Search; Reverse Interlinears); these have never been available for individual purchase, but only ever as part of base packages (or the minimal crossgrade).

As Bob said, "The Minimal Crossgrade is being configured, but we expect it will contain all/most of the unique new data sets (Timeline, Bible Facts, Clause Database, Bible Sense Lexicon, Phrases, Preaching Themes, Thematic Outlines, etc.)". You may wish to wait and see what it does contain (when it is announced) before making your final decision.

Posts 90
James Macleod | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 7:23 PM

I was never worried :) thanks team logos for all your efforts. God bless

Posts 1730
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 7:23 PM

Here is a question I haven't been able to find an answer to by searching around.

If for instance (as I have) one owns the L4 Scholars Library, when I purchased it I had no idea about databases, and those types of resources. Does the scholars library include all the databases and so forth for L4, and if not, would those databases be included in an L5 minimal crossgrade, or would one ALSO need the L4 minimal cross grade.

What about someone who just has the bare minimal L4 library, but wants the benefits of all the L4 features and L5 features...

thanks!

Logos 2 Level 3, Logos 3 (series X) Scholars, Logos 4 Scholars Silver, Logos 5 Platinum, Biblical Languages, Reformed Platinum, Pentecostal Silver.
iPad 3, iPhone 5, Octo-core pc with 32gb of ddr3. Bibliolater. Abondservant.com

Posts 1730
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 7:25 PM

Or Datasets, or whatever they are called...

Logos 2 Level 3, Logos 3 (series X) Scholars, Logos 4 Scholars Silver, Logos 5 Platinum, Biblical Languages, Reformed Platinum, Pentecostal Silver.
iPad 3, iPhone 5, Octo-core pc with 32gb of ddr3. Bibliolater. Abondservant.com

Posts 6646
Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 7:35 PM

Ken Baker:
If for instance (as I have) one owns the L4 Scholars Library, when I purchased it I had no idea about databases, and those types of resources. Does the scholars library include all the databases and so forth for L4, and if not, would those databases be included in an L5 minimal crossgrade, or would one ALSO need the L4 minimal cross grade.

You had all the extra databases and capabilities of L4 with Scholars, as far as I can recall. You didn't need to have also purchased the L4 minimum crossgrade. It would have duplicated what you had already in L4 Scholar's. You would not need it to get the L5 minimum crossgrade.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 528
Jonathan Pitts | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 2 2012 7:54 PM
Thank you, Bradley.
Bradley Grainger (Logos):

You may wish to wait and see what it does contain (when it is announced) before making your final decision.

That's the conclusion that I am coming to.
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