The Great Downgrade Controversy

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This post has 11 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 54
Tommy Miller | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Nov 19 2012 11:55 AM

Wikipedia reports that the great Downgrade controversy began with Charles Spurgeon's first "Down-grade" article, published in The Sword & the Trowel in 1887. Spurgeon maintained that his brethren within the Baptist Union had effectively "down-graded" the Word of God as such heresies as the Graf-Wellhausen hypothesis, Charles Darwin's theory of evolution, and others crept in to their thinking, thus weakening their position on sola Scriptura.

The great Downgrade Controversy of Logos began in 2012, when poor marketing choices went into effect to "down-grade" the upgrades of L4 users to the new L5 package names.

I absolutely love the new features of Logos 5!  Especially the Bible Senses Lexicon, and the Timeline (something I have wanted to see since Logos 3 came out). I absolutely despise that my upgrade from L4 Portfolio to L5 Silver, sounds like a down-grade in name. I wish Logos would do something about that--so that my About Logos Bible Software window, under the help tab, would reflect "Former Portfolio (L4) Owner, Now Overlaid in Silver (L5)." [That would help me deal with my pride issues.]

But make no mistake about it, I have lost no resources, no functionality, and zero dollars of any previous investments in my study library have been lost.  The new features are amazing. And I expect Logos will continue to develop the product into even greater things in the future. (I do hope they do a better job of marketing, however--paying close attention to the old adage: "An informed people is a happy people.")

While I never enjoy paying for an upgrade, Logos 5 (IMHO) is worth every dollar I have spent on it.

Core i7-2630QM CPU 2.00 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 64-Bit Windows 7 Professional SP1

Posts 654
David Bailey | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 19 2012 12:02 PM

Tommy Miller:
so that my About Logos Bible Software window, under the help tab, would reflect "Former Portfolio (L4) Owner, Now Overlaid in Silver (L5)." [That would help me deal with my pride issues.]

At least you are honest about why it bothers you.

Tommy Miller:
While I never enjoy paying for an upgrade, Logos 5 (IMHO) is worth every dollar I have spent on it.

Definitely agree!  I went from L4 Platinum to L5 Bronze + Crossgrade - worth every penny. I am looking forward to future versions of L5.

David

Posts 3
Mark E. Truex | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 19 2012 12:12 PM

I am in the very same situation as you, but lack any understanding of what is going on. I am also currently a logos 4 Portfolio owner and am being notified constantly via email to pay almost $700 to upgrade my software at this time in order to remain a Portfolio owner and be ablet to use my resources in Logos 5.

I was promised when I purchased my original package that all software upgrades in the future would be a nominal charge. I do not consider close to $700 a nominal charge. Are you saying that you were able to upgrade from Logos 4 Porfolio to Logos 5 Silver at no cost? I agree with you that it certainly sounds like a downgrade but at least it would be an answer. I suppose as long as all my resourses are in tact and I get full functionality in Logos 5 then no harm is done other than to my pride. I just cannot get any straight answers from the folks at Logos other than spend the bucks on the website.

Posts 54
Tommy Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 19 2012 1:13 PM

Mark,

I was just as confused as you were a couple of weeks ago. Logos has not done a good job of explaining themselves to their loyal customers. To answer your question, I paid to upgrade to the Logos 5 Silver, and then I paid another small fee to add the Biblical Senses Lexicon (which is a very good tool). But by so doing, I added more than a 100 new resources (books) to my library (at a cost of pennies on the dollar). For my personal pricing (about $87), this was far cheaper than merely buying the minimal crossgrade. As I understand it, the FREE Logos 5 core engine will still be released in the near future (http://community.logos.com/forums/p/59759/425345.aspx#425345). If you choose to wait for that, everything you currently have will continue to be available to you (your resources are your own until the Lord's Return). But there are new features in L5 that do not do anything for you unless you pay the "nominal" charge to purchase the datasets (i.e.: the work that Logos employees did to tag all the words in the Bible so they work with these new types of searches.) The links to these minimal options are here, if you choose to act now:

If you choose, however, to "upgrade" to a Logos 5 designated base package (totally unrelated to Logos 4 named base packages), you will receive most or all of these datasets (depending on your package selection), plus several new books that you do not yet own. Be sure to select "New to You" when comparing base packages here (http://www.logos.com/comparison#), so that you will see what you are really gaining.

Finally, Mark Barnes' video really does much to help one appreciate the value of the new Logos 5 datasets and resources. You can view it here: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/59381/422707.aspx#422707

The thing to remember is, unless you shell out a lot of money or unless Logos corrects their marketing blunders, you will no longer be (for example) a L4 Portfolio user but an L5 Silver user. But you will have all of the same resources and capabilities of L4 plus your newly purchased L5 resources, only with a "down-graded" name. (I have decided I can live with that.)

I hope this helps.

Tommy

Core i7-2630QM CPU 2.00 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 64-Bit Windows 7 Professional SP1

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 19 2012 2:07 PM

Every existing L4 owner who is wanting to move forward with the new things Logos is doing should get the minimal crossgrade — no question. Without the data sets and functionality provided by the minimal crossgrade you will lose out on the new 'intelligence' features in Logos 5.

The question of whether you want to 'upgrade' to one of the new collections (to get new book titles) is a totally separate question — and should only be considered in terms of book resources.

Regarding going from high level L4 collections like Platinum, Portfolio to lowly base metal collections like Bronze in L5. The name (what's in a name...) is not as important or relevant as to what is going to happen when the next upgrade cycle comes. So if you are now known as the user 'Logos 5 Bronze, formerly known as Portfolio' you will be at L5 Bronze but the Datasets you will have (by virtue of the Crossgrade) will be at the L5 Gold level.

So you will be known as 'Logos 5 Bronze, formerly known as Portfolio, but with Gold Datasets'.

Then things will get interesting.

If do anything at the least get the 'Minimum Crossgrade'. If you want one of the L5 packages as well then get the L5 package (Bronze, Silver, Gold whatever) then get the L4 to L5 Crossgrade.

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 54
Tommy Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 19 2012 4:08 PM

Patrick S.:

Regarding going from high level L4 collections like Platinum, Portfolio to lowly base metal collections like Bronze in L5. The name (what's in a name...)

So you will be known as 'Logos 5 Bronze, formerly known as Portfolio, but with Gold Datasets'.

 

I am petitioning the Logos court to legally change my package name to "The Artist Formerly Known as Portfolio".

But seriously, what's in a name? Logos assigned a psychological value, by deliberate marketing choice, when they used base-package names such as, Diamond, Platinum, Gold, Silver, Bronze, etc.  You will note that they did not use Steel, Copper, Brass, Tin Foil, etc. Now they are crying: "It's only a name. Call it anything you want."  The market is merely reacting to the Logos-created marketing scheme. Why should we not cry foul?

I say again, I love the product. I do not like the marketing strategy.

Core i7-2630QM CPU 2.00 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 64-Bit Windows 7 Professional SP1

Posts 1803
Tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 19 2012 4:28 PM

Tommy Miller:
You will note that they did not use Steel, Copper, Brass, Tin Foil, etc

I personally think they should change the name of the starter edition to LEAD. Big Smile

www.hombrereformado.org  Solo a Dios la Gloria   Apoyo

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 20 2012 2:57 PM

I went ahead and upgraded my Platinum to the L5 Platinum, and will probably go Diamond later (since it contains some books off my WishList). 

My only problem is, I forgot what some of the new books are I got in Platinum 5 since I was so hung up on the features! :-)

Guess it's time to have a stroll through my library screen.

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 10817
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 21 2012 2:00 PM

Nathan Parker:

My only problem is, I forgot what some of the new books are I got in Platinum 5 since I was so hung up on the features! :-)

Guess it's time to have a stroll through my library screen.

Sort by Last Updated will provide some assistance in this.

Posts 1178
David Wilson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 21 2012 4:22 PM

Does not matter to me what they call the new packages: made my choice based on the usefulness and value to me of the "new to me" resources:

First "downgraded" to "Silver" at a very low cost to kick the tires on the new software before taking my time to examine in detail the resources "new to me" and assess their usefulness and value to me.  Liking the new Logos 5, I subsequently decided to "return" the "Silver" package a get a different one

  • value to me for "new to me" was greater than cost to me by a significant margin !!
    (even though many "new to me" were counted as worth $0 to me) 

Given the "feedback" on new package titles via this forum in the past few weeks we can probably expect Logos 6 packages to be named after "rare earths"....

Confused

Posts 2706
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 21 2012 7:24 PM

I don't usually think of packages, I'm looking at resources. Logos is half study software and half library. At some point, one has enough library to do one's work, but new material and new skills don't stay confined to a fixed library. No one would go to a doctor if he didn't keep up with his profession and knowledge. The same should be true of those who handle God's precious Word. Paul was eager for his books and that's worth emulating.

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 22 2012 12:47 PM

Jack Caviness:

Nathan Parker:

My only problem is, I forgot what some of the new books are I got in Platinum 5 since I was so hung up on the features! :-)

Guess it's time to have a stroll through my library screen.

Sort by Last Updated will provide some assistance in this.

Thanks for the tip. Will try this.

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

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