Timeframe for full implementation of Logos 4 Mac?

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David Hilty | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Nov 30 2009 8:33 AM

Not sure if this has been addressed in any of the other threads, but do we have a rough idea of how long it will be before the finalized version?  Are we talking weeks or months to complete this?  I know it will be continually tweaked, I'm just talking about when it will be caught up to the current Windows version.

Thanks.

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Richard DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 30 2009 8:34 AM

David Hilty:
Not sure if this has been addressed in any of the other threads, but do we have a rough idea of how long it will be before the finalized version? 

Look here:

http://www.logos.com/4/missingfeatures

 Help links: WIKI;   Videos; Logos 5 FAQ (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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David Hilty | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 30 2009 8:39 AM

That link is for the Windows version.

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Richard DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 30 2009 8:42 AM

David Hilty:

That link is for the Windows version.

AAAAH!

Second time I've done this: not realized I was in foreign territory.

The partial title in the discussion list didn't include "Logos4 Mac," which is clearly in the subject line above.

Sorry. It's Monday, and I haven't had my coffee yet.

 

 Help links: WIKI;   Videos; Logos 5 FAQ (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 30 2009 8:47 AM

Logos got burned last time by not being able to meet Mac deadlines. They will be putting out new Alphas ~ every other week as they fix bugs and make improvements.I would guess it will be months until it is ready.

Here's what Bob P. (CEO) had to say in another thread.

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/3274/26285.aspx#26285

 

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David Hilty | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 30 2009 8:54 AM

Kevin Becker:

Logos got burned last time by not being able to meet Mac deadlines. They will be putting out new Alphas ~ every other week as they fix bugs and make improvements.I would guess it will be months until it is ready.

Here's what Bob P. (CEO) had to say in another thread.

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/3274/26285.aspx#26285

 

 

Thanks.  I'm not necessarily asking for a "deadline" more like a "guideline".  I'd just like to have some idea of how long it will be before we get the product that the Windows users already have.

 

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J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 30 2009 9:28 AM

David Hilty:
Thanks.  I'm not necessarily asking for a "deadline" more like a "guideline".  I'd just like to have some idea of how long it will be before we get the product that the Windows users already have.
The answer is still the same no matter how the question is phrased.  Logos has given no time frame of any kind.  We are out of luck on that front :-)

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Posts 79
David Hilty | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 30 2009 9:52 AM

Joe Miller:

David Hilty:
Thanks.  I'm not necessarily asking for a "deadline" more like a "guideline".  I'd just like to have some idea of how long it will be before we get the product that the Windows users already have.
The answer is still the same no matter how the question is phrased.  Logos has given no time frame of any kind.  We are out of luck on that front :-)

I've invested in the neighborhood of $2,000 in Logos software.  I don't consider, "When we get to it." a reasonable response to your customers.

Posts 24
David Oxtoby | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 30 2009 9:58 AM

to be fair to Logos, you've invested in the digital resources, and not the software, since there giving that away free, you can gain access to your resources via either L3 on PC (via Fusion etc) or Mac L1, or Mac L4A, so i think we're pretty well catered for, yes i'd love to have the full PC L4 functionality, but i'm pretty happy with how things are looking up for now.

 

David O.

 

David Hilty:

Joe Miller:

David Hilty:
Thanks.  I'm not necessarily asking for a "deadline" more like a "guideline".  I'd just like to have some idea of how long it will be before we get the product that the Windows users already have.
The answer is still the same no matter how the question is phrased.  Logos has given no time frame of any kind.  We are out of luck on that front :-)

I've invested in the neighborhood of $2,000 in Logos software.  I don't consider, "When we get to it." a reasonable response to your customers.

 

Posts 79
David Hilty | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 30 2009 10:30 AM

David, one of the final obstacles for me to move to a Mac was the Logos announcement that they had come out with a Mac version.  Here I am a year later without what I would consider a reasonable alternative to what I had on my PC.  I have no desire to run parallels or boot camp on my Mac.  The reason I bought a Mac is so I could be done dealing with lousy Microsoft OS.  But I'm not able to use one of my most used resources prior to the switch.  That's gotten a little frustrating to me.  I just feel like Logos has really let it's Mac users down to this point.

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 30 2009 10:55 AM

David Hilty:

David, one of the final obstacles for me to move to a Mac was the Logos announcement that they had come out with a Mac version.  Here I am a year later without what I would consider a reasonable alternative to what I had on my PC.  I have no desire to run parallels or boot camp on my Mac.  The reason I bought a Mac is so I could be done dealing with lousy Microsoft OS.  But I'm not able to use one of my most used resources prior to the switch.  That's gotten a little frustrating to me.  I just feel like Logos has really let it's Mac users down to this point.

With your comments( in this thread) above though justified, how can Logos give "guidelines" or "deadlines"? More frustration, more disappointment if it does not materialize within the specified time frame. Please be patient, the truth is no one knows.

Ted

 

Posts 24
David Oxtoby | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 30 2009 11:16 AM

David Hilty:

David, one of the final obstacles for me to move to a Mac was the Logos announcement that they had come out with a Mac version.  Here I am a year later without what I would consider a reasonable alternative to what I had on my PC.  I have no desire to run parallels or boot camp on my Mac.  The reason I bought a Mac is so I could be done dealing with lousy Microsoft OS.  But I'm not able to use one of my most used resources prior to the switch.  That's gotten a little frustrating to me.  I just feel like Logos has really let it's Mac users down to this point.

i do share your frustration, since i'd much rather not keep running Fusion or BootCamp, and yes the Mac version is a poor cousin in contrast, but i guess i'm just delighted that this conversion is well under way, the Alpha 5 version is actually pretty usable and stable at the moment.  I guess i'm probably a lot more lenient since in my past life i was a systems analyst and programmer, and it looks like L4 is such a huge project, and bring the Mac into the supported platforms is such a huge undertaking, so hats of to them.  Your right about setting expectations and then not meeting them, always a tricky task when you have a Sales Team and a Development Team, who normally have very different objectives.

I maybe wouldn't let the delay on a full-on Mac client stop your move to the Mac platform though since it's such a breath of fresh air in contrast to the Windows platform, i moved over about 2 years ago and love having a machine i can just use to get a job done, rather than constantly tweak and fix.  I do still keep a small Tablet PC for reading Logos books, but Mac is my prefered platform.

David

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Chris Roberts | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 30 2009 11:20 AM

David Hilty:
Are we talking weeks or months to complete this?

Months, certainly, but usability will increase with each new build. My rough guestimate based on nothing but my own ignorance: a much better, usable version within two months (still alpha, not a beta yet), more or less fully functional within 8 months or so, possibly still in beta but pretty close to the final thing.

One way or another, in two months I'm sure this post will come back to haunt me. :)

Posts 278
Jerry Walker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 30 2009 12:26 PM

Chris Roberts:
a much better, usable version within two months (still alpha, not a beta yet), more or less fully functional within 8 months or so, possibly still in beta but pretty close to the final thing.

Man I sure hope you are wrong!!!! lol!!! I hope its more like 6 months final release... I hope thats more like it!!!! Just my prayer for it....

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 30 2009 1:13 PM

Richard DeRuiter:
Second time I've done this: not realized I was in foreign territory.

Enemy? Who us? Why, we haven't shot a Windows user in weeks. Cool

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 30 2009 1:23 PM

David Hilty:
I don't consider, "When we get to it." a reasonable response to your customers.

I don't believe that the hard work being done by the Mac Development Team should be classed as "When we get to it." Since I have considerably more invested in Logos Mac than you do, I feel free to make this comment.

As one who has been in this camp since 2005 (and who was formerly the loudest complainer), I am encouraged by the progress I have seen in the last few weeks. Sure we would like to know dates, but I can understand the reluctance. Software development is even more unpredictable than kitchen remodeling, and Logos has been burned with date setting already. I think they would be foolish to make a prediction now. 

Having said that, I was almost foolish enough to make one myself. Big Smile

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Richard DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 30 2009 1:43 PM

JackCaviness:
Enemy? Who us? Why, we haven't shot a Windows user in weeks

No not the enemy, just foreigners. A bit like trying to do something 'American' in Canada. I just ended up putting a 30.48 centimeters unit of measurement in my mouth.

 Help links: WIKI;   Videos; Logos 5 FAQ (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 30 2009 2:19 PM

Actually you showed the questioner that the Windows version has some catching up to do also. Cool

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Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 30 2009 10:07 PM

As soon as possible! :-)

It's still very hard to predict when the Mac port will be at feature parity with Windows, especially since the Windows version keeps improving in parallel.

But we don't have to duplicate the features, just code the UI layer. For some features this is trivial, and one bit of UI coding "lights up" many things at once. In other features, the UI is the big part, and has to be largely redone.

The big unknown is "platform issues". There are different performance bottlenecks (and bugs) in Mono than in Microsoft's .NET, and we're still finding them. Some we fix, some we work around, and some we hope the Mono team will fix once we report it with a test case.

Overall, though, progress is good, and we're even beefing up the team. We added a developer in the last couple weeks, and hope to move another to the team in the next few weeks.

If you PROMISE not to hold me to it... I'd GUESS that you'll have good, stable build within two months that performs well on core behaviors, like reading, searching, and the Passage Guide. I'd [WILD GUESS] say we're six months from "most people can't tell the difference" between Mac/Windows functionality.

Feel free to post your priorities here. We're basically working library, reading, searching, Passage Guide, Exegetical Guide, Bible Word Study Guide, tool windows (Information, Power Lookup, Copy Bible Verses, Explorer, Cited By,...) , etc. in that order. When we hit a weird platform-specific bug that won't affect everyone (problems with Syriac text display, for example) we're putting it aside to return to later. (In the hopes that the platform may have a fix for it by the time we get back to it.)

-- Bob

 

Posts 28
Jason Prince | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 30 2009 11:39 PM

Thanks Bob. 2010 looks like everything will be done which works for me. 

I'll continue to use 3 until it gets better

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