BWS: weird results.

I am sure there is an easy answer, and probably something similar has been posted before. But I am unaware of both. I noticed that the Greek word "episkeptomai" has some odd results when performing a BWS from the NRSV. Notice:

In the former, the the Greek word is grouped with "looked" and in the latter, with "favorably". All are rendered "looked favorably."

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Rich DeRuiter

I am sure there is an easy answer, and probably something similar has been posted before. But I am unaware of both. I noticed that the Greek word "episkeptomai" has some odd results when performing a BWS from the NRSV

In the former, the the Greek word is grouped with "looked" and in the latter, with "favorably". All are rendered "looked favorably."

This is because of inconsistency in the alignment of the English with the Greek in the reverse interlinear (from which this data is generated). Even if a single Greek word must be translated by two words in English (as here) the rev.int. only assigns the Greek word to one of the English words. That wouldn't be terrible, if it did so consistently, but it doesn't.

BTW, this isn't the only word to have this issue. Nor is it consistent across translations.

George Somsel

In the former, the the Greek word is grouped with "looked" and in the latter, with "favorably". All are rendered "looked favorably."

In addition to Rich's comment, note that the concept of a favorable disposition is somewhat contained in the word ἐπισκέπτομαι. While this is from the use as "to visit", note the disposition.

② to go to see a pers. with helpful intent,

Arndt, William, Frederick W. Danker and Walter Bauer. A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature. 3rd ed, s.v. ἐπισκέπτομαι. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/438580#Comment_438580

I am sure there is an easy answer, and probably something similar has been posted before. But I am unaware of both. I noticed that the Greek word "episkeptomai" has some odd results when performing a BWS from the NRSV

In the former, the the Greek word is grouped with "looked" and in the latter, with "favorably". All are rendered "looked favorably."

This is because of inconsistency in the alignment of the English with the Greek in the reverse interlinear (from which this data is generated). Even if a single Greek word must be translated by two words in English (as here) the rev.int. only assigns the Greek word to one of the English words. That wouldn't be terrible, if it did so consistently, but it doesn't.

BTW, this isn't the only word to have this issue. Nor is it consistent across translations.

Thank you for checking in, Rich. I recall this discussion (or one like it) from a good while back. I think I was surprised to see it within one translation, and with a word that is not used that much. I thought they had "fixed" this issue. Curious: would Logos like us to report these instances, and if so, how best?

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/438583#Comment_438583

In the former, the the Greek word is grouped with "looked" and in the latter, with "favorably". All are rendered "looked favorably."

In addition to Rich's comment, note that the concept of a favorable disposition is somewhat contained in the word ἐπισκέπτομαι. While this is from the use as "to visit", note the disposition.

② to go to see a pers. with helpful intent,

Arndt, William, Frederick W. Danker and Walter Bauer. A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature. 3rd ed, s.v. ἐπισκέπτομαι. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000.

Thank you, George. I hadn't gotten as far as to look in BAGD/BDAG yet. I noticed in my quick overview that the NRSV seemed to be the only one to translate it thus, but that the context could allow for such a nuance in some passages. Drawing this explicit attention helped tie up a loose end. May our Lord continue to look favorably on you this Advent season and beyond.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/438602#Comment_438602

Thank you for checking in, Rich. I recall this discussion (or one like it) from a good while back. I think I was surprised to see it within one translation, and with a word that is not used that much. I thought they had "fixed" this issue. Curious: would Logos like us to report these instances, and if so, how best?

I'd like to know too. In cases like this, since "favorably" modifies the verb, it makes most sense to attach the English referent "looked" to the Greek word here. But whatever they do, it should be consistent.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/438607#Comment_438607

In cases like this, since "favorably" modifies the verb, it makes most sense to attach the English referent "looked" to the Greek word here.

exactly

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/438602#Comment_438602

Curious: would Logos like us to report these instances, and if so, how best?

Yes, please do. (We have some plans to detect these inconsistencies algorithmically, but haven't done so yet. In the meantime, customer reports are helpful.) For now, the best way is to send an email to revint@logos.com; we plan to add better UI for reporting data errors (in Bible Facts, Timeline, Reverse Interlinears, etc.) in a future release.

See http://www.logos.com/support/reportaproblem for other ways to contact us.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/438705#Comment_438705

Curious: would Logos like us to report these instances, and if so, how best?

Yes, please do. (We have some plans to detect these inconsistencies algorithmically, but haven't done so yet. In the meantime, customer reports are helpful.) For now, the best way is to send an email to revint@logos.com; we plan to add better UI for reporting data errors (in Bible Facts, Timeline, Reverse Interlinears, etc.) in a future release.

See http://www.logos.com/support/reportaproblem for other ways to contact us.

Okay, great. I'll start looking for them.

Do you agree that verbs in the original language (such as the example above) should be attached to verbs (not adverbs) in the target language? If so, does the same go for nouns/adjectives, and other places where an original language word is translated by more than one English word? If so, I'll report those as I see them too.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/438705#Comment_438705

Curious: would Logos like us to report these instances, and if so, how best?

Yes, please do. (We have some plans to detect these inconsistencies algorithmically, but haven't done so yet. In the meantime, customer reports are helpful.) For now, the best way is to send an email to revint@logos.com; we plan to add better UI for reporting data errors (in Bible Facts, Timeline, Reverse Interlinears, etc.) in a future release.

See http://www.logos.com/support/reportaproblem for other ways to contact us.

Thank you, Bradley. the cobwebs are coming out of my head now. I remember that email, as well. Blessings to you this Christmas season.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/438708#Comment_438708

Do you agree that verbs in the original language (such as the example above) should be attached to verbs (not adverbs) in the target language? If so, does the same go for nouns/adjectives, and other places where an original language word is translated by more than one English word?

good clarification/question, Richard. That's what I would assume as well. running a BWS on the greek word helps see how widespread that is, as well.

I wonder who would like to keep a running list in the wiki of all greek/hebrew words by translation that have this problem, in alphabetical order. [:O] Seriously, it would be a great idea, and I wish I could say I was the one. At least we can report via email. I plan to highlight those words with a unique highlight, so at least I can tell what I have reported.

Milford Charles Murray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/438873#Comment_438873

Peace to all!

But, let us not forget George's Point - for me the main point in this thread! *smile*

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Yesterday 11:35 AM

Dan DeVilder:

In the former, the the Greek word is grouped with "looked" and in the latter, with "favorably". All are rendered "looked favorably."

② to go to see a pers. with helpful intent,