Anybody seen this yet? I received it this am from Rejoice

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 12:59 PM

Joan Korte:
If I have overstepped forum boundaries, then I am sorry.
I don't  think you have Joan, and given the context I don't think John has either.

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 13421
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 1:07 PM

Just to add that I don't think any of this is inappropriate at all. I agree with everything Thomas has said (and it's not often I can say that Wink). Just because the product isn't authorised by Logos doesn't mean that we can't discuss it. And as Thomas says, it's not as though John Fallahee has been inappropriately plugging his own product, nor (on this site) speaking against official products; he's just been responding to our questions. Good on him, I say. It's no different to discussing PBBs.

Posts 569
J. Morris | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 1:21 PM

Joan, it has nothing to do with your post, and is not ment to be personal against you in any way.  You did as you should.  You asked a question.

The issues are stated in the concerns. 

Don't be afraid to ask questions, hope we didn't frighten you!

Blessings

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 1:33 PM

Joan Korte:
I think if I was talking up another Bible software package on the Logos forums, that would be wrong.  My purpose is to advance the use of L4. 

Joan,

You posted the whole R.C.S. advertisement. As much as I love "those guys", they do sell other brands. Dan Pritchett made it very simple to understand when he likened these diversionary postings unto a moving sidewalk transporting customers to the competitor's order counter. (Notice my use of periods to break up the common search name of the off-site company?)

I agree whole-heartedly with your enthusiasm of all things Logos. I eagerly welcome all the training help I can get. But when we post in these forums it is almost like carving the comments in stone. They can be there forever. Even if a SysAdmin deletes the whole thread, Google has a snapshot of it and that can be searched. All that aside, Thank you for calling my attention to this. I just hope John doesn't refuse my order. Angry (Notice I did not mention John's last name? Thereby avoiding another search engine hit .)

It is all about the behind-the-scenes technicalities of search engines and commerce.  We sometimes unintentionally injure those most precious to us. I'm just trying to protect my "golden goose" named Logos.

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Brandon Vaughn | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 2:22 PM

Matthew C Jones:

Does anybody have a problem with John directing traffic away from Logos.com for the purpose of selling something? Making money?

What is the difference between this and the iPhone SMS app spam we kept getting? Don't give me the excuse it is about Logos software so the end justifies the means. Lot's of "third-party" training videos have been produced but nobody else is hocking their wares in the forum for money.

This is bad form

 

I would say the difference is night and day.  This isn't spam, and has everything to do with Logos.  I would hope that every "third-party" training video producer would make us aware of any Logos products.

It would be one thing for them to announce a product, let alone to kindly respond to a posting from someone not employed with the company ... and another thing to constantly start new threads about sales of the same product.

I saw no one hocking the forum for money.  Seems a bit of an over-reaction in many ways.

Ultimately, he isn't directing traffic away from Logos, because it is a circular path!  As much as I like MP stuff, this approach (interactive learning) might just help a lot of folk, who in turn become advertisements for Logos ... which could ultimately mean more sales.  The same argument could be said of MP showing up on the front page of Logos 4. 

We should support and encourage every free and paid resource that supports or encourages Logos.  And provided that the "paid resources" don't use the forums as their monthly "newsletter", then I don't see the big deal with it.

I for one am glad that there are more free and "competitor" resources coming out now!  That will only make training better and hopefully drive down prices on things (which to me are well worth it, but have a tendency to be really expensive).

Blessings,
Brandon

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 2:30 PM

Just for those who may not know what I'm referring to:

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/136/4581.aspx#4581

This is the Logos forum post where Dan Pritchett, VP of Logos Marketing, finally breaks his silence to address the ... Well, you read it for yourselves and determine what you believe he is addressing.

This one key paragraph I will quote (in case you don't want to read everything) is:

"In the forums, it is a totally new ballgame. A post in the forums has the potential to live forever. Exposed to searches, views, casual reading, topic threads, and most importantly—the algorithms that the search engines use to rank every site in the world. Without going into a course on SEO, link building strategies, Google PR, weight, and context relevance and anchor text optimization, let me just say that the main reason I do not like links to the competition is due to how that impacts the search engines for us and particularly for them."

Lastly, I have no idea what the details are in Morris Proctor's relationship with Logos as an "authorized trainer." But I would hate to be Morris seeing the ad-copy presenting a competitive comparrison rather than a complementary one. Merry Christmas, Morris! Gift

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SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 2:36 PM

John, Thanks for all the L3 Videos

Seeing the turn this thread has taken  (like most others usually do Smile ) I just want to thank you for so many past helpful videos in Logos 3.

I am also still waiting for your "Fellahee Exegetical Study Guide" to show up in L4 (along with the other "beta" guides from L3). - Yes, I know it is supposed to be one of the 'Coming Soon...features.

For myself, I would have been very upset if we had NOT been informed about these products. The more the merrier!

Regards

Steve F

.

 

Regards, SteveF

Posts 187
Rev. D. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 2:41 PM

I have Logos installed on two systems and it's easier for me, based on my learning style, to view the video and be able to simulate the activity without having to switch between screens. This also enables me to look at the actual lesson and perform the activity while watching the video simulation. 

It just seemed like the pauses were too long, but that was a very minor complaint, and even complaint is too strong of a word. Thanks for sharing the information and I'll try the video again. 

iMac 27 inch, 3.1 GHz Core i5, 1T HD, 4 GB RAM

 

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 2:50 PM

I think a bit of  over-reacting is taking place here. I just don't see what the problem is.

As for the comment from the VP of Logos, one should read it in context. I have searched the Logos website and i don't find these interactive training videos being offered by Logos! John was simply responding to question being asked by members of this forum - sorry i can't fault his action on this thread.

Ted

 

 

 

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

Posts 1668
SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 2:53 PM

QUOTE: Google has a snapshot of it and that can be searched.

Matthew, that is exactly why Logos told us they wanted to be here way out in the "world wide web." They wanted to be searched for and found. It is why they 'moved' us from the e-mail based News Reders.

And (trying to be fair to your point of view) this is part of the price they pay for being  on display on the web (if they even  see it as an issue.)

Some (- in general - not you specifically, my brother) seem very quick to leap to Logos "defense" on Forum postings when I'm really not convinced that Logos even cares. Yes, this IS their "sandbox."  Yes, they are very gracious. But for so many to get their "knickers-in-a-knot" over "perceived" ills, slights etc  seems to be a little much.

Note: I've purchased Morris' (very helpful) 2 volume set of manuas, AND when I sort out Christmas,l plan to purchase John's video as well. AND MR. Barnes and MR. Fidel are producing wonderful FREE materials that is as good, or better than anything else I've seen.  If there are helpful logos materials out there, especially from talented folks like Mr. Fellahee I WANT to know about it!

There are so many deep concerns in our world, I'm just not sure we need to so quickly jump to defend Logos from every perceived slight.

Thank you

Steve F

 

Regards, SteveF

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 2:59 PM

Welcome to the forum Brandon,

BrandonVaughn:
Ultimately, he isn't directing traffic away from Logos, because it is a circular path!

I refer you to Dan's explanation referenced above to how search engines DO direct traffic based on links.  The route is not necessarily circular because R.C.S. does sell other Bible software.  

BrandonVaughn:
And provided that the "paid resources" don't use the forums as their monthly "newsletter", then I don't see the big deal with it.

There is a term in campaign financing called "stream income" (not "income stream") that says there is a certain amount you can dip out of the current cash flow. Logos knows this is real when they look at their sales statistics. If everybody buys Anchor Yale Bible, they might not buy NICOT/NICNT, or Portfolio, or Zondervan Collection or ICC....  You get the picture. If every related third party seller comes on here and collects some of that limited "stream income" and leaves nothing for us to buy Logos resources, Logos ceases to exist. Read how many people say they spent all their money and cannot buy into the 12 days of Logos sale. Worst of all, Logos is being required to underwrite their own undermining! Sounds like a plan right out of the White House.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 3:06 PM

Matthew, thanks for posting that. I understand now much better why you said what you did.I'll simply say that:

  • I am glad that there are no policies on this. I applaud Bob's stance here.
  • That important post in the other thread is one of the most disappointing things I've ever read from a Logos employee. If the forum was flooded with spam it would have been justified. That wasn't the case.
  • I'm not sure that post would have been written in that way today. The fact that the original post in theis thread hasn't been deleted, probably suggests the same. Logos has 'used' us (I mean that in a good way) to help them through a very busy time of customer support, and they continue to do so. Thousands of hours are given voluntarily on this forum and on the wiki. There needs to be some give and take. Logos are gaining immeasurably more from this forum than they are loosing over one or two posts from users which tell other users of sources for their products or resources that help users use their products.

 

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 3:09 PM

<Post no longer relevant>.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 3:18 PM

Ted & Stephen Please read all of Dan Pritchett's posts on the referenced thread. My complaint (& Dan's whole point) is not talking about third party products. The issue is linking to outside locations has a REAL and undesired effect. Maybe that is not very obvious to godly men and women who spend all their time studying the Bible and working hard in their ministries.

Soul in Cyberspace http://www.logos.com/ebooks/details/SOULCYBR gives a little peak behind the curtain of how the internet is not so innocent.

Try a google search on Logos Bible Software. I get 734,000 hits. How many do you think I click on? Where do I start? Do I ever click on #538,188? If the top 20 this week includes this forun reference to an outside website selling competing Bible software Logos suffers REAL damages. That is what I'm griping about.

Meanwhile, Thank you to every one of you who wisely spends your time labouring in the Word rather than dabbling behind the IT curtains. (Unless of course God has called you back there. Geeked)

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 3:25 PM

Thank you Mark for helping me keep perspective. A Brother in time of need is a Brother indeed.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 3:27 PM

Thanks Matthew. I appreciate it.

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 3:28 PM

Matthew C Jones:

external links drive down search engine statistics

I think a page with one link to an external site will not drive down the search engine stats. It's those pages that are filled with links to other sites, pages that exist solely to increase the number of links in to other sites to supposedly drive up their Google page ranks that cause problems. I don't think this particular link to John's website is going to cause Logos any problems in search engine ranking.

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 4:21 PM

Matthew C Jones:

Just for those who may not know what I'm referring to:

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/136/4581.aspx#4581

Somehow I'd missed that post among the tens of thousands of posts here. (grin).  Thanks for pointing that out Matthew. I've saved that link for future reference.

 

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 1130
Keith Larson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 7:18 PM

A much as people might want to defend Logos here, I suggest that we let Logos do their own defending. Several years ago when the PBB came out John Cross and I converted a few public domain books to PBBs. The accusations that John and I had to endure totally turned me off the newsgroup for several years. It has only been in the past few weeks that I have braved participation beyond the lurker level. The accusations of "robbing sales from Logos" did not end until Bob himself  intervened and say it was OK for users to use the PBB to publish book that Logos was publishing. My suggestion is to please slow down and let Logos respond if they see this as a problem.

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2009 7:32 PM

P. Keith Larson:

A much as people might want to defend Logos here, I suggest that we let Logos do their own defending. Several years ago when the PBB came out John Cross and I converted a few public domain books to PBBs. The accusations that John and I had to endure totally turned me off the newsgroup for several years. It has only been in the past few weeks that I have braved participation beyond the lurker level. The accusations of "robbing sales from Logos" did not end until Bob himself  intervened and say it was OK for users to use the PBB to publish book that Logos was publishing. My suggestion is to please slow down and let Logos respond if they see this as a problem.

I hope my posts were not taken as a condemnation of any kind :-) If Logos is willing to provide a place for the free exchange of appropriate (e.g. not vulgar) ideas then when it happens it shouldn't be condemned. On a personal level I believe we should all respect Logos within these forums, and I believe asking if they mind my commenting about a product I am selling is an appropriate step. Some may feel that is unnecessary and that's fine. Since I do not know what communication has transpired between John and Logos I certainly am not going to say that he is wrong. I'm just a little uncomfortable with it personally until I know such communication has taken place.

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