Questionable statement in EEC volume on James

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Jun 3 2013 4:44 PM

In his comments on James 2:10 William Varner wrote,

 Some of the rabbis actually taught that obedience to certain laws, such as the law about fringes and phylacteries, was as good as obedience to the whole in Midrash Mishle on Prov 1:10

This would seem a rather strange commentary on Proverb 1:10, and no other commentator mentions it. Should it be a reference to some other portion of the Midrash? Considered purchase of a copy of the Midrash Mishile, but Logos does not have it, and Amazon wants a second mortgage on my home Geeked.

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 3 2013 5:19 PM

Misreference???

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 3 2013 5:24 PM

Dan Francis:

Misreference???

Considered that possibility, but do not know how to contact the author. One of the advantages of EEC is the ease of making corrections.

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Eric Weiss | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 3 2013 7:11 PM

Maybe he meant Proverbs 1:9, "for they are a garland of grace on your head and a necklace round your throat." (Robert Alter THE WISDOM BOOKS). This might call to mind the way phylacteries are wrapped around one's head and one's arm.

For they are a fair garland for your head: They refers to the parental instruction and teaching in verse 8, which are described by RSV as a garland. According to Scott the word rendered garland is from a rare Hebrew root meaning to “wind” or “twist,” and refers to winding cloth about the head to make a turban or head covering. A garland is a wreath made of small branches, flowers, and leaves, and is worn on the head on festive occasions.

Reyburn, W. D., & Fry, E. M. (2000). A handbook on Proverbs. UBS Handbook Series (35). New York: United Bible Societies.

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 3 2013 8:34 PM

Great call Eric…. Yes

-Dan

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Clifford Kvidahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 3 2013 8:46 PM

Jack Caviness:

Dan Francis:

Misreference???

Considered that possibility, but do not know how to contact the author. One of the advantages of EEC is the ease of making corrections.

Jack,

Will Varner is a close personal friend and mentor. I will mention this to him and have him stop by the forum to address your question.

Cliff

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williamvarner | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 3 2013 9:49 PM

I have been out of the country for three weeks. Yes, I did make a mistake on the reference in Proverbs. Eric Weiss is correct: It should be Prov 1:9 instead of Prov 1:10. Will make that correction the next round of edits.  Thanks!

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 4 2013 3:03 AM

Clifford Kvidahl:
Will Varner is a close personal friend and mentor. I will mention this to him and have him stop by the forum to address your question.

Thank you, Cliff. BTW: what is the correct method for calling such incidents to Logos' attention?

Will Varner:
 Yes, I did make a mistake on the reference in Proverbs. Eric Weiss is correct: It should be Prov 1:9 instead ofProv 1:10. Will make that correction the next round of edits.

Thank you for the clarification.

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fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 4 2013 3:42 AM

Jack Caviness:
Considered purchase of a copy of the Midrash Mishile, but Logos does not have it, and Amazon wants a second mortgage on my home Geeked.

Then you need to vote for Add more Jewish works and Add more Jewish works to CP.Big Smile

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TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 4 2013 6:09 AM

Jack Caviness:
what is the correct method for calling such incidents to Logos' attention?
The report typo feature on the right click menu get's cataloged for each round of review/edits.

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 4 2013 6:24 AM

TCBlack:

Jack Caviness:
what is the correct method for calling such incidents to Logos' attention?
The report typo feature on the right click menu get's cataloged for each round of review/edits.

In this case I guess a typo would not only be considered as an error in "typing" but an error in "content".

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williamvarner | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 4 2013 8:04 AM

I will provide the English quote when I grab Vistozky's translation today in the TMC library. I only have the Hebrew Mishle and I don't want people to trust my translation.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 4 2013 12:38 PM

William Varner:
I will provide the English quote when I grab Vistozky's translation today in the TMC library.

That's nice

William Varner:
I only have the Hebrew Mishle and I don't want people to trust my translation.

I didn't have a problem with. It was just the reference to Proverbs 1.10.

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williamvarner | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 4 2013 1:19 PM

So here are the actual words of the Midrash Mishle. Surprisingly, the comment IS on 1:10 and illustrates how oftentimes the rabbis make points that we don't clearly see in the text. I have changed my own sentence to not limit the commands to fringes and phylacteries. The change will read as follows:

--Some rabbis taught that obedience to certain commands was as good as obedience to the whole (Midrash Mishle on Prov 1:10: “If you do this (not yield to sinners’ enticement), you will find that you have fulfilled all the commandments of the Torah, whereas if you do not, you will find that you have transgressed all the commandments of the Torah”).--

It is interesting that Vistozky's translation actually footnotes James 2:10-11 as a parallel reference to the Midrash!  

Thanks for this interchange which has helped me to clarify my comments. The changes will show up in the next series of "edits" which will download automatically to those who have my James digital resource. 

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 4 2013 3:32 PM

William Varner:
The changes will show up in the next series of "edits" which will download automatically to those who have my James digital resource. 

So if I quote the above and leave the footnote to your James resource, I will eventually be correct? Although normally going to great lengths to avoid secondary sources, I do not have access to the Midrash. This is not a class assignment, but my own personal work on the epistle—may become a PBB someday.

The footnote:

Varner, James, Jas 2:10. (The Midrash commentary applies to Proverbs 1:9 but it attached to 1:10—Comment by Dr. Varner in the Logos General Forum 06/04/2013 http://community.logos.com/forums/p/71023/494621.aspx#494621

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williamvarner | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 5 2013 9:00 AM

Great!

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Scott E. Mahle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 5 2013 9:11 AM

Interacting with the author of a commentary . . . you just have to love Logos! Cool

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 5 2013 10:41 AM

Scott E. Mahle:

Interacting with the author of a commentary . . . you just have to love Logos! Cool

It truly is a fabulous thing...

-Dan

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 6 2013 3:41 AM

Scott E. Mahle:
Interacting with the author of a commentary . . . you just have to love Logos! Cool

That is a definite plus for Logos Yes. And multiplied thanks to Dr. Varner for taking the time to respond.

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