Questionable statement in EEC volume on James

In his comments on James 2:10 William Varner wrote,

[quote] Some of the rabbis actually taught that obedience to certain laws, such as the law about fringes and phylacteries, was as good as obedience to the whole in Midrash Mishle on Prov 1:10

This would seem a rather strange commentary on Proverb 1:10, and no other commentator mentions it. Should it be a reference to some other portion of the Midrash? Considered purchase of a copy of the Midrash Mishile, but Logos does not have it, and Amazon wants a second mortgage on my home Geeked .

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Dan Francis

Misreference???

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/494402#Comment_494402

Misreference???

Considered that possibility, but do not know how to contact the author. One of the advantages of EEC is the ease of making corrections.

Eric Weiss

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/494404#Comment_494404

Maybe he meant Proverbs 1:9, "for they are a garland of grace on your head and a necklace round your throat." (Robert Alter THE WISDOM BOOKS). This might call to mind the way phylacteries are wrapped around one's head and one's arm.

For they are a fair garland for your head: They refers to the parental instruction and teaching in verse 8, which are described by RSV as a garland. According to Scott the word rendered garland is from a rare Hebrew root meaning to “wind” or “twist,” and refers to winding cloth about the head to make a turban or head covering. A garland is a wreath made of small branches, flowers, and leaves, and is worn on the head on festive occasions.

Reyburn, W. D., & Fry, E. M. (2000). A handbook on Proverbs. UBS Handbook Series (35). New York: United Bible Societies.

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/494427#Comment_494427

Great call Eric…. [Y]

-Dan

Clifford Kvidahl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/494404#Comment_494404

Misreference???

Considered that possibility, but do not know how to contact the author. One of the advantages of EEC is the ease of making corrections.

Jack,

Will Varner is a close personal friend and mentor. I will mention this to him and have him stop by the forum to address your question.

Cliff

williamvarner

I have been out of the country for three weeks. Yes, I did make a mistake on the reference in Proverbs. Eric Weiss is correct: It should be Prov 1:9 instead of Prov 1:10. Will make that correction the next round of edits. Thanks!

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/494456#Comment_494456

Will Varner is a close personal friend and mentor. I will mention this to him and have him stop by the forum to address your question.

Thank you, Cliff. BTW: what is the correct method for calling such incidents to Logos' attention?

Yes, I did make a mistake on the reference in Proverbs. Eric Weiss is correct: It should be Prov 1:9 instead ofProv 1:10. Will make that correction the next round of edits.

Thank you for the clarification.

fgh

Considered purchase of a copy of the Midrash Mishile, but Logos does not have it, and Amazon wants a second mortgage on my home .

Then you need to vote for Add more Jewish works and Add more Jewish works to CP.[:D]

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/494480#Comment_494480

what is the correct method for calling such incidents to Logos' attention?

The report typo feature on the right click menu get's cataloged for each round of review/edits.

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/494501#Comment_494501

what is the correct method for calling such incidents to Logos' attention?
The report typo feature on the right click menu get's cataloged for each round of review/edits.

In this case I guess a typo would not only be considered as an error in "typing" but an error in "content".

williamvarner

I will provide the English quote when I grab Vistozky's translation today in the TMC library. I only have the Hebrew Mishle and I don't want people to trust my translation.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/494529#Comment_494529

I will provide the English quote when I grab Vistozky's translation today in the TMC library.

That's nice

I only have the Hebrew Mishle and I don't want people to trust my translation.

I didn't have a problem with. It was just the reference to Proverbs 1.10.

williamvarner

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/494603#Comment_494603

So here are the actual words of the Midrash Mishle. Surprisingly, the comment IS on 1:10 and illustrates how oftentimes the rabbis make points that we don't clearly see in the text. I have changed my own sentence to not limit the commands to fringes and phylacteries. The change will read as follows:

--Some rabbis taught that obedience to certain commands was as good as obedience to the whole (Midrash Mishle on Prov 1:10: “If you do this (not yield to sinners’ enticement), you will find that you have fulfilled all the commandments of the Torah, whereas if you do not, you will find that you have transgressed all the commandments of the Torah”).--

It is interesting that Vistozky's translation actually footnotes James 2:10-11 as a parallel reference to the Midrash!

Thanks for this interchange which has helped me to clarify my comments. The changes will show up in the next series of "edits" which will download automatically to those who have my James digital resource.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/494621#Comment_494621

The changes will show up in the next series of "edits" which will download automatically to those who have my James digital resource.

So if I quote the above and leave the footnote to your James resource, I will eventually be correct? Although normally going to great lengths to avoid secondary sources, I do not have access to the Midrash. This is not a class assignment, but my own personal work on the epistle—may become a PBB someday.

The footnote:

Varner, James, Jas 2:10. (The Midrash commentary applies to Proverbs 1:9 but it attached to 1:10—Comment by Dr. Varner in the Logos General Forum 06/04/2013 http://community.logos.com/forums/p/71023/494621.aspx#494621

williamvarner

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/494667#Comment_494667

Great!

Scott E. Mahle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/494841#Comment_494841

Interacting with the author of a commentary . . . you just have to love Logos! [H]

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/494846#Comment_494846

Interacting with the author of a commentary . . . you just have to love Logos!

It truly is a fabulous thing...

-Dan

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/494846#Comment_494846

Interacting with the author of a commentary . . . you just have to love Logos!

That is a definite plus for Logos [Y]. And multiplied thanks to Dr. Varner for taking the time to respond.

RANDY ENGLISH

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/494846#Comment_494846

Hello Scott......do you still have your library for sale...? If so, can you please write me at pibs.adm@gmail.com........thank you very much. Randy

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1270632#Comment_1270632

All this for nothing! Fast forward to 2023 and the commentary is not even available anymore! Hopefully rules will change on plagiarism and publishers can understand once and for all that “There’s nothing new under the sun.”

DAL

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1270651#Comment_1270651

All this for nothing! Fast forward to 2023 and the commentary is not even available anymore! Hopefully rules will change on plagiarism and publishers can understand once and for all that “There’s nothing new under the sun.”

No offense, DAL, but no thank you. The Biblical scholarly world standards are already too low, and the secularly world is infused with the same problem.

Extra: I've not understood the logic (seen it several times on the forum): it's ok if it's common already. I'd think that'd be what Christianism is against?

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1270659#Comment_1270659

All this for nothing! Fast forward to 2023 and the commentary is not even available anymore! Hopefully rules will change on plagiarism and publishers can understand once and for all that “There’s nothing new under the sun.”

No offense, DAL, but no thank you. The Biblical scholarly world standards are already too low, and the secularly world is infused with the same problem.

Extra: I've not understood the logic (seen it several times on the forum): it's ok if it's common already. I'd think that'd be what Christianism is against?

None taken! Well, at least let the authors fix their mistake. O’Brien wrote some good commentaries, so did Köstenberger and Varner. No need to get rid of the whole thing!

For a split second I almost thought Osborne had committed the same crime as the others, but I just remember he passed away and that’s why Schreiner is replacing him with his new commentary on Revelation for the BECNT series 😂

DAL

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1270651#Comment_1270651

Hopefully rules will change on plagiarism and publishers can understand once and for all that “There’s nothing new under the sun.”

The issue is attribution not reuse. The academic rule of thumb is that if a statement can be found in at least 5 sources without attribution, then you can assume that it is general knowledge not subject to copyright. Perhaps the problem is too tempting a market for pseudo-scholarship that encourages authors to produce commentaries where they actually have nothing to say but are simply meeting a market need for theology-position-compatible pseudo-scholarship commentaries for the pseudo-educated. I prefer scholars who have the guts to go against the party-line or to explore new approaches.