Bug 5.2a beta 1: Resources don't open in the right place

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Oct 7 2013 3:33 PM

The release notes say "Resources will now default to opening on the right, while guides will open on the left; when opened in a blank layout.".

If I have a blank layout, then open a guide, the guide opens on the left, as promised. Subsequently all guides open on the left, all resources open on the right. That works as advertised.

If I have a blank layout, then open a resource, the resource opens on the right, as promised. But all subsequent resources (and guides) open on the left. That doesn't work as advertised.

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Dylan Rondeau | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 7 2013 3:43 PM

Mark Barnes:
But all subsequent resources (and guides) open on the left

Thank you for looking into that! I summarized that poorly; it has been changed to "only applies to the first panel opened in a blank layout" which is what the developer told me in the first place. Embarrassed

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Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 7 2013 4:11 PM

That's an interesting choice. Why limit it to only the first resource? Why do the first resource and not do subsequent ones?

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Dylan Rondeau | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 7 2013 4:45 PM

My understanding is so that it mimics the layout of running a search from the Home Page, with the Guides opening on the left and the Resources opening on the right. After that, it's the idea that opening 4 resources would be more useful having 2 panels with 2 resources each rather than 4 in 1 panel. It's essentially a convenience for opening a guide and resource side-by-side, and if that isn't what you're doing it doesn't get in the way.

Edit: Guesswork. I will look into this.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 8 2013 7:23 AM

Dylan Rondeau:
After that, it's the idea that opening 4 resources would be more useful having 2 panels with 2 resources each rather than 4 in 1 panel.

But if you open five resources, one after the other, you'll end up with one on the right, and four on the left. I know it's impossible to predict what someone really does want, but I doubt it's that.

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 8 2013 11:46 AM

I agree with Mark Barnes (again) (sigh)

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Tom Philpot (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 8 2013 12:15 PM

Mark,

Mark Barnes:
But if you open five resources, one after the other, you'll end up with one on the right, and four on the left. I know it's impossible to predict what someone really does want, but I doubt it's that.

I can explain "why" it does what it does currently, but I agree that it's not ideal.

The way the logic is implemented is this:

1) In a blank layout, open resources on the right, and non-resources on the left.

2) If a layout is not blank, and you open a new panel, prefer to put the panel into the empty space. (Hence, on the left in this example). The thought being, you have available space so use it.

3) When a layout has no empty space, try to group panels together by similarity. Since you now have two resources open, and assuming the third resource is roughly equivalent to both of the open resources, the first panel found is chosen, which is going to weight the left panel most heavily

Thus, the left panel gets most of the resources.

Part of the reason we wanted to get these layout changes in beta 1 was to let users test them in the field and see what works and what doesn't.

I'll talk to our designers and see what they say about this case. It shouldn't be hard to prefer the panel with fewest tabs, all other things being equal.

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Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 8 2013 12:23 PM

Thank you very much for that explanation!

FWIW, I think skipping step (2) would be preferable. IOW, always simply try to group by similarity.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 8 2013 1:38 PM

Randy W. Sims:
FWIW, I think skipping step (2) would be preferable. IOW, always simply try to group by similarity.

Yes Yes, Yes Yes

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 8 2013 3:50 PM

Randy W. Sims:
always simply try to group by similarity.

I think this would be an interesting avenue to explore, and would certainly be worth testing. The problem with it is that if I open two or more Bibles, then it is likely that I want to compare them, and therefore have them open side by side. But if I open two or more Bibles, then two or more dictionaries, then two or more commentaries, it's likely that I would like all the Bibles in the lefthand pane, all the Bible dictionaries in the top right pane, and all the commentaries in a lower right pane.

But generally speaking I do believe it would be best to have Logos open new resources in the same pane as other resources of the same type (even to the extent of creating new panes, up to a maximum of six).

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 8 2013 4:43 PM

Tom Philpot (Logos):
The way the logic is implemented is this:

It doesn't appear to work any differently to the current 'intelligent' system in a populated layout:

  • with a bible in each of two panels, whether open or closed, a new bible opens in the L panel.
  • with 2 lexicons in the R panel,  a new lexicon opens in the L panel
  • with 2 commentaries in R, a new one opens in R
  • with no bible dictionaries, a new one opens in L
  • after repeating some of the above new bible dictionaries open in R & a bible opens in R

Note that I closed newly opened ones before proceeding to the next 'test'.

Dave
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Tom Philpot (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 8 2013 5:24 PM

Dave Hooton:
It doesn't appear to work any differently to the current 'intelligent' system in a populated layout:

The current algorithm makes a simplistic assumption that may break down: it assumes each panel has a "center" tab that is most representative of the contents of that panel. So if you have in one panel, two notes documents and three resources, the center is most likely to be a resource panel, based on a simple averaging of all the information about the 5 tabs in the panel. So, if you open a new document, but the "center" panel is a resource, the new document may get opened in another panel whose "center" is more closely related to the document you are opening.

The previous code only tried to group bible resource panels separately from non-bible resource panels. Any other panel type was considered equivalent to others. It did not try to cluster documents or guides, which is new in 5.2 beta 1. Also the metadata used to group panels is a bit more involved so you have a better chance of having resources of similar types grouped together, subject to the above limitation.

That said, I'm going to take the examples you posted above and use those as further test cases for the algorithm.

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Jonathan Pitts | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 12 2013 5:39 AM

How about giving us a choice of where to open each item? Place an icon in the middle of the screen, which we can then drag to the most convenient location. Similar behaviour to what happens when you drag an open tab around the layout.

This might not be intuitive to new users, so perhaps it should be an option rather than default.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 12 2013 6:24 AM

Jonathan Pitts:
Place an icon in the middle of the screen, which we can then drag to the most convenient location.

You can do that already. You can drag resources and tools to wherever you want them to open right from the library and menus.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 12 2013 7:10 PM

Tom Philpot (Logos):
That said, I'm going to take the examples you posted above and use those as further test cases for the algorithm.

This is my basic layout (3 vertical panels) --> the Exegetical Guide will open on the L:

Note my further comment about opening bibles from search results at http://community.logos.com/forums/p/76327/534272.aspx#534272.

Dave
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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 13 2013 9:15 PM

Tom ,

It is getting more unpredictable with searches, resources, etc. that links will open a new resource in the opposite panel. Please restore consistency in this.

Dave
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Tom Philpot (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 14 2013 4:19 PM

Dave,

I see what you mean about the context menu problem. I'm working on a fix in an upcoming beta release. (Beta 2 is too close to release to make the fixes in).

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Angela Murashov | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 22 2013 2:37 PM

Tom Philpot (Logos):
I'll talk to our designers and see what they say about this case. It shouldn't be hard to prefer the panel with fewest tabs, all other things being equal.


This will be fixed in 5.2 Beta 2.

New resources opened will now prefer to distribute evenly among panels, rather than clustering on the left, assuming the two panels have similar content.

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Tom Philpot (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 30 2013 3:43 PM

Tom Philpot (Logos):
The [5.2 Beta 1 & 2] algorithm makes a simplistic assumption that may break down: it assumes each panel has a "center" tab that is most representative of the contents of that panel. So if you have in one panel, two notes documents and three resources, the center is most likely to be a resource panel, based on a simple averaging of all the information about the 5 tabs in the panel. So, if you open a new document, but the "center" panel is a resource, the new document may get opened in another panel whose "center" is more closely related to the document you are opening.

5.2 Beta 3 changes the algorithm slightly to fix this simplistic assumption. Now, the panel placement logic looks at groups of tabs within a panel by type to determine the best panel in which to place the new tab. So if you only have a panel with 3 resources, 2 guides and 1 notes document, the algorithm considers each group of tab types within the panel individually, e.g. resources, guides and note document, rather than picking one tab to represent the contents of all the tabs in the panel.

Dave, I trust you'll let me know if this change is better or worse than before.

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