Bug 5.2a beta 1: Resources don't open in the right place
The release notes say "Resources will now default to opening on the right, while guides will open on the left; when opened in a blank layout.".
If I have a blank layout, then open a guide, the guide opens on the left, as promised. Subsequently all guides open on the left, all resources open on the right. That works as advertised.
If I have a blank layout, then open a resource, the resource opens on the right, as promised. But all subsequent resources (and guides) open on the left. That doesn't work as advertised.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
Comments
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Mark Barnes said:
But all subsequent resources (and guides) open on the left
Thank you for looking into that! I summarized that poorly; it has been changed to "only applies to the first panel opened in a blank layout" which is what the developer told me in the first place. [:$]
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That's an interesting choice. Why limit it to only the first resource? Why do the first resource and not do subsequent ones?
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My understanding is so that it mimics the layout of running a search from the Home Page, with the Guides opening on the left and the Resources opening on the right. After that, it's the idea that opening 4 resources would be more useful having 2 panels with 2 resources each rather than 4 in 1 panel. It's essentially a convenience for opening a guide and resource side-by-side, and if that isn't what you're doing it doesn't get in the way.
Edit: Guesswork. I will look into this.
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Dylan Rondeau said:
After that, it's the idea that opening 4 resources would be more useful having 2 panels with 2 resources each rather than 4 in 1 panel.
But if you open five resources, one after the other, you'll end up with one on the right, and four on the left. I know it's impossible to predict what someone really does want, but I doubt it's that.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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I agree with Mark Barnes (again) (sigh)
tootle pip
Mike
How to get logs and post them.(now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs) Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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Mark,
Mark Barnes said:But if you open five resources, one after the other, you'll end up with one on the right, and four on the left. I know it's impossible to predict what someone really does want, but I doubt it's that.
I can explain "why" it does what it does currently, but I agree that it's not ideal.
The way the logic is implemented is this:
1) In a blank layout, open resources on the right, and non-resources on the left.
2) If a layout is not blank, and you open a new panel, prefer to put the panel into the empty space. (Hence, on the left in this example). The thought being, you have available space so use it.
3) When a layout has no empty space, try to group panels together by similarity. Since you now have two resources open, and assuming the third resource is roughly equivalent to both of the open resources, the first panel found is chosen, which is going to weight the left panel most heavily
Thus, the left panel gets most of the resources.
Part of the reason we wanted to get these layout changes in beta 1 was to let users test them in the field and see what works and what doesn't.
I'll talk to our designers and see what they say about this case. It shouldn't be hard to prefer the panel with fewest tabs, all other things being equal.
Mobile Development Team Lead
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Thank you very much for that explanation!
FWIW, I think skipping step (2) would be preferable. IOW, always simply try to group by similarity.
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Randy W. Sims said:
FWIW, I think skipping step (2) would be preferable. IOW, always simply try to group by similarity.
[Y] Yes, Yes [Y]
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Randy W. Sims said:
always simply try to group by similarity.
I think this would be an interesting avenue to explore, and would certainly be worth testing. The problem with it is that if I open two or more Bibles, then it is likely that I want to compare them, and therefore have them open side by side. But if I open two or more Bibles, then two or more dictionaries, then two or more commentaries, it's likely that I would like all the Bibles in the lefthand pane, all the Bible dictionaries in the top right pane, and all the commentaries in a lower right pane.
But generally speaking I do believe it would be best to have Logos open new resources in the same pane as other resources of the same type (even to the extent of creating new panes, up to a maximum of six).
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Tom Philpot (Logos) said:
The way the logic is implemented is this:
It doesn't appear to work any differently to the current 'intelligent' system in a populated layout:
- with a bible in each of two panels, whether open or closed, a new bible opens in the L panel.
- with 2 lexicons in the R panel, a new lexicon opens in the L panel
- with 2 commentaries in R, a new one opens in R
- with no bible dictionaries, a new one opens in L
- after repeating some of the above new bible dictionaries open in R & a bible opens in R
Note that I closed newly opened ones before proceeding to the next 'test'.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
It doesn't appear to work any differently to the current 'intelligent' system in a populated layout:
The current algorithm makes a simplistic assumption that may break down: it assumes each panel has a "center" tab that is most representative of the contents of that panel. So if you have in one panel, two notes documents and three resources, the center is most likely to be a resource panel, based on a simple averaging of all the information about the 5 tabs in the panel. So, if you open a new document, but the "center" panel is a resource, the new document may get opened in another panel whose "center" is more closely related to the document you are opening.
The previous code only tried to group bible resource panels separately from non-bible resource panels. Any other panel type was considered equivalent to others. It did not try to cluster documents or guides, which is new in 5.2 beta 1. Also the metadata used to group panels is a bit more involved so you have a better chance of having resources of similar types grouped together, subject to the above limitation.
That said, I'm going to take the examples you posted above and use those as further test cases for the algorithm.
Mobile Development Team Lead
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How about giving us a choice of where to open each item? Place an icon in the middle of the screen, which we can then drag to the most convenient location. Similar behaviour to what happens when you drag an open tab around the layout.
This might not be intuitive to new users, so perhaps it should be an option rather than default.
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Jonathan Pitts said:
Place an icon in the middle of the screen, which we can then drag to the most convenient location.
You can do that already. You can drag resources and tools to wherever you want them to open right from the library and menus.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Tom Philpot (Logos) said:
That said, I'm going to take the examples you posted above and use those as further test cases for the algorithm.
This is my basic layout (3 vertical panels) --> the Exegetical Guide will open on the L:
Note my further comment about opening bibles from search results at http://community.logos.com/forums/p/76327/534272.aspx#534272.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Tom ,
It is getting more unpredictable with searches, resources, etc. that links will open a new resource in the opposite panel. Please restore consistency in this.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave,
I see what you mean about the context menu problem. I'm working on a fix in an upcoming beta release. (Beta 2 is too close to release to make the fixes in).
Mobile Development Team Lead
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Tom Philpot (Logos) said:
I'll talk to our designers and see what they say about this case. It shouldn't be hard to prefer the panel with fewest tabs, all other things being equal.
This will be fixed in 5.2 Beta 2.
New resources opened will now prefer to distribute evenly among panels, rather than clustering on the left, assuming the two panels have similar content.
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Tom Philpot (Logos) said:
The [5.2 Beta 1 & 2] algorithm makes a simplistic assumption that may break down: it assumes each panel has a "center" tab that is most representative of the contents of that panel. So if you have in one panel, two notes documents and three resources, the center is most likely to be a resource panel, based on a simple averaging of all the information about the 5 tabs in the panel. So, if you open a new document, but the "center" panel is a resource, the new document may get opened in another panel whose "center" is more closely related to the document you are opening.
5.2 Beta 3 changes the algorithm slightly to fix this simplistic assumption. Now, the panel placement logic looks at groups of tabs within a panel by type to determine the best panel in which to place the new tab. So if you only have a panel with 3 resources, 2 guides and 1 notes document, the algorithm considers each group of tab types within the panel individually, e.g. resources, guides and note document, rather than picking one tab to represent the contents of all the tabs in the panel.
Dave, I trust you'll let me know if this change is better or worse than before.
Mobile Development Team Lead
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I just got on the Logos Beta 3 (Mac). Concerning where the resources open, I have two observations:It’s great that a search panel or a guide or a note now finds the panel where there another search, guide, or note panel resides to open. It always bugged me that they would stubbornly open in the left-most panel. Good job there!However, with the resource panels, I am having problems. Previously, Logos, at the very least, understood the difference between a Bible and a commentary. It could even tell where a dictionary was and add a new dictionary tab to the correct panel.That no longer happens. Logos adds any new resource to seemingly random panels. E.g., A dictionary opens in the Bible panel.Here’s a couple screenshots to show, that while I had a dictionary open, the new dictionaries I opened (from the passage guide) always opened in my Bible [KJV1900] panel. Even moving the Bible panel didn’t help.
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Integ said:
However, with the resource panels, I am having problems. Previously, Logos, at the very least, understood the difference between a Bible and a commentary. It could even tell where a dictionary was and add a new dictionary tab to the correct panel.
That no longer happens. Logos adds any new resource to seemingly random panels. E.g., A dictionary opens in the Bible panel.
Thanks for the feedback. I've created a case for this regression and we'll get that fixed.
Mobile Development Team Lead
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Tom Philpot (Logos) said:
Dave, I trust you'll let me know if this change is better or worse than before.
It is not improved as Program Settings opened first in the left panel and then in the right panel, then L and then R
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:Tom Philpot (Logos) said:
Dave, I trust you'll let me know if this change is better or worse than before.
It is not improved as Program Settings opened first in the left panel and then in the right panel, then L and then R
Thanks Dave. I was able to reproduce this behavior and I'll take a look at how to fix it.
Mobile Development Team Lead
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It would be a lot easier to go back to the pre-v5.2 algorithm.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
It would be a lot easier to go back to the pre-v5.2 algorithm.
That's basically what I did to fix it for program settings and for the bible/dictionary issue that Integ mentioned. The fixes will go out with the next 5.2 release.
Mobile Development Team Lead
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Can I propose the following logic? Whilst it wouldn't suit every circumstance, I think it would suit most people, most of the time.
- If there's empty space, put the resource there.
- If there's no empty space, find the other resources of the same type, and put the new resource in the panel that already has the most resources of this type open.
- If there is more than one panel with an equal number of resources,
- Prefer the panel that is docked.
- Prefer the panel that doesn't have a Bible in it (unless you're opening a Bible, of course).
- Prefer the panel that was most recently active.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
Can I propose the following logic? Whilst it wouldn't suit every circumstance, I think it would suit most people, most of the time.
- If there's empty space, put the resource there.
- If there's no empty space, find the other resources of the same type, and put the new resource in the panel that already has the most resources of this type open.
- If there is more than one panel with an equal number of resources,
- Prefer the panel that is docked.
- Prefer the panel that doesn't have a Bible in it (unless you're opening a Bible, of course).
- Prefer the panel that was most recently active.
I would put the panel being docked higher up the list: I don't want new resources opening in floating windows, which usually have specific purpose for me (library; people, places and things; anything I want full screen).
There is also the question of whether a link from a resource should open in the same place as it came from or not.
Type is a good criterion. Using the panel with the most of that type makes more sense than using the one with fewest resources overall.
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The trouble is that different people want different behaviour. I still wonder whether some system where the new item hovers for moment and asks where you want to put it would be best. When I am working remotely with Splashtop, dragging resources around precisely is difficult. Having to just click/tap the panel that I want the new resource to open in would be easiest.
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I absolutely love Mark's proposal and hope that the Logos development team will incorporate these changes soon. Thanks for your suggestion Mark!Mark Barnes said:Can I propose the following logic? Whilst it wouldn't suit every circumstance, I think it would suit most people, most of the time.
- If there's empty space, put the resource there.
- If there's no empty space, find the other resources of the same type, and put the new resource in the panel that already has the most resources of this type open.
- If there is more than one panel with an equal number of resources,
- Prefer the panel that is docked.
- Prefer the panel that doesn't have a Bible in it (unless you're opening a Bible, of course).
- Prefer the panel that was most recently active.
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Mark Barnes said:
Can I propose the following logic?
I'm going to slightly add to my proposal. When adding a new resource to a panel, place it to the right of the resource of the same type, to try and prevent different resource types getting jumbled up in the same panel.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark,
Thanks for the input. The changes you propose are not vastly different from what we do now, in that we always prefer an empty space (#1) and we try to factor type most heavily into the weighting for resources, giving Bibles a special treatment in keeping them distinct. As of 5.2 Beta 3 we do give docked windows a slight preference in scoring over floated windows that the user opened and over floated windows that the app opened (e.g. Bible Facts)
There are a lot of corner cases to consider with active panels and placements, and we've tried to balance the various ways users might want to work with the software. I've created a case for our designers to look into, and we'll monitor the feedback from the forums. If there's a big enough demand for further tweaks, we'll put them in.
Mobile Development Team Lead
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