What books did Joel Osteen read?

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 30 2014 12:27 PM

DAL:

abondservant:

Larry King as was her routine and this guy was on there...

Larry King asked a question.....

That one impression is all I have of the man that when given the perfect opportunity to share the Gospel on nationwide TV he dropped the ball.

Did you watch the part when he was asked if he donated to charity and he hesitantly said "Yes" and when he was asked which one, he evaded the question altogether and never answered but just silly smiled his way out of the question?

Also, when he was asked if he was ok having all that money, he said that "God wants his children to prosper.  Abraham was rich, David was rich, God gave Solomon riches, etc." The funny thing is that this motivational speaker is the only one rich while his members aren't (at least those that don't have the good jobs anyway, but they still give him money).  I think the following picture paints the actual story of it all - Sad but true:

I was lost in disappointmentville and don't remember a thing about the rest of what he had to say.

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Allen Browne | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 30 2014 4:35 PM

mike:
A serious question,

This guy's ammo on "illustrations" are endless and I got to say they're pretty good. (let's be honest)

Not a lot of people are gifted with telling illustrations like that.

I wonder what books he read to get his illustration or where he got them from?

anyone ever searched?

Actually, that's a good question, mike.

Like most of your respondents, I'm not a fan of Joel Osteen either, but there may be something to learn from him about story-telling.

In college, I learned about the importance of illustrations--the stories that illustrate the importance of the points I was trying to make. I've come to believe that that approach is wrong-headed. The stories are the message. That's why the God didn't give us a systematic theology or a wiki or a policy document or a set of principles. He gave us stories of people's lives: Adam, Moses, David, Ezra, Jesus and his apostles. Many of the Psalms are storied. The prophets make sense within the Israel's story. Paul's letters all have storied substructures. Revelation is a single enacted story.

God is a person, not a theological principle, so he shows up in people's stories. We can abstract those stories into principles that help us comprehend him: that's fine, but God is found not in the principles but in the stories. That radical change of epistemology has revolutionized the way I teach.

God is known through people and their stories. He always planned to be known through people. We are people whose stories reflect (image) God to each other. Israel's calling was to be the people through whom other nations would know God. The ultimate revelation of God was through a person. Corporately, our stories are the revelation of God, known through his body.

We might argue that guys like Joel O choose the wrong stories, but perhaps they have understood why the storied approach works. I'm no longer looking for good illustrations: I'm looking for God at work in people's lives.

Hope that's helpful, Mike.

Posts 406
Paul C | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 30 2014 5:51 PM

I don't think anyone objects to using illustrations to help understand/demonstrate Scripture. It becomes troubling when the rare inclusion of a Biblical text is an attempt to support one of a multitude of feel good illustrations.

Posts 1777
Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 30 2014 6:04 PM

mike:
Not a lot of people are gifted with telling illustrations like that.

Hmm...Bill Cosby, Garrison Keillor, Tom Bodett. But they're not staring down the barrel of James 3:1 judgment.

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Posts 525
Kent | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 30 2014 6:10 PM

I listened to Joel Osteen once and that was enough. I won't comment further. However, since it has been mentioned and we are in Logos Forums...

The Preacher as Storyteller https://www.logos.com/product/2544/the-preacher-as-storyteller

Posts 3996
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 1 2014 8:28 AM

Going to link an image that is potentially offensive to followers of Osteen. There are a few others in the image, Joeseph Prince, Joyce Meyer, and Sara Jakes. If you like any of them I wouldn't recommend the image. I'm sharing it because it made me laugh, and because the image follows the tenor of this thread RE Osteen.

Click Here.

Apologies if you find your self offended.

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Posts 406
Paul C | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 1 2014 8:37 AM

abondservant:
Apologies if you find your self offended.
They could mend my crushed sensibilities by enclosing the word Christian in quotes. Smile

Posts 325
Michael | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 1 2014 8:38 AM

abondservant:

Going to link an image that is potentially offensive to followers of Osteen. There are a few others in the image, Joeseph Prince, Joyce Meyer, and Sara Jakes. If you like any of them I wouldn't recommend the image. I'm sharing it because it made me laugh, and because the image follows the tenor of this thread RE Osteen.

Click Here.

Apologies if you find your self offended.

 

YesYesYes

Posts 21
Gary Foster | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 1 2014 9:36 PM

I'm not a fan of Joel Osteen either. However, purely by accident he was on the television while I was struggling with a really hard personal decision. As I was working my way through my decision I listened to him with half an ear, and his story actually helped me to make up my mind on what to do (and my decision has since been proven right a dozen times over).

Don't be quick to discount how the Lord chooses to give us guidance. He gave me my answer, as plain as the nose on my face, straight from the mouth of someone I have very little respect for and that just proves to me that my own arrogance needs a tempering of humility more often than not. When you place yourself above someone else you are making yourself a prime target for a little humility lesson.

All that being said, I still don't like Joel Osteen but I'm far less tempted to judge him. That's not my place. Ps 9:8–9 is a good thing to remember here along with Mt 7:1-3 of course

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RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 2 2014 8:55 AM

Gary Foster:
When you place yourself above someone else you are making yourself a prime target for a little humility lesson.

Reminds me of Balaam and his talking donkey.

Numbers 22:22-30

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 3996
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 2 2014 10:24 AM

Like I said, I am not sure if I were put on the spot on national television I'd be able to come up with a cogent God glorifying answer that I was later satisfied with. He does keep peoples attention, and in that I could certainly take a few lessons. Further he does find some good illustrations. My criticism was made with that caveat (though I've said more just now than before) if you read back.

When I think about him, I pray for him. I think thats the best course of actions for those of us who disagree to take.

If nothing else he certainly has accumulated a lot of people and piqued their interest in God. Even if he doesn't share the Gospel with them, if they read their bible as a result of his ministry then there is some value in this ministry. We know the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword able to separate bone from marrow, and we also know that the word of the Lord does not return a void. 

The picture I shared was out of an irreverent sense of humor and was perhaps in bad taste. But it is funny.

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Paul C | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 2 2014 10:37 AM

abondservant:
The picture I shared was out of an irreverent sense of humor and was perhaps in bad taste. But it is funny.
From Vocabulary.com :

Originally, the word reverent was used only in religious contexts, but now it works when people are just acting like they’re in a religious setting (even if the object of their worship is a sports star or political pundit). People are occasionally reverent in regard to antique cars, supermodels, spelling bee champions and giant TV screens. Reverent is related to the verb revere, which is also about having or showing respect for someone or something.

Posts 11064
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 2 2014 10:56 AM

Well, I have to be honest periodically. I wasn't actually there. And so we're doomed to actually use the available records (early 2nd century-ish). 

The curiousity is the degree to which they didn't use 'thus saith the Lord' or 'thus saith Paul' or 'thus saith Jesus'  or even 'thus saith the twelve'.  Indeed the Jesus one is so sparce (and the quote is more often than not, not in our gospels), that scholars can opine Jesus quotes either weren't available yet, or as a minimun unknown to at least the church in Rome.

Of course, by the late 2nd century, they'd located a NT to work with.

My favorite is the sun temple in Egypt and the phoenix (as the proof of Jesus' resurrection).  That HAD to be a good proof-text.  Surprisingly the sun played a decent part in early teachings.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 406
Paul C | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 2 2014 11:04 AM

UMMMM. Did you reply to the wrong thread? I understood your post. Others may not.Smile

Posts 11064
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 2 2014 11:21 AM

Didn't reply to the OP; replied to you.  Joel, bless his heart, is in the same 'boat' as early Christian teachers.  And unfortunately doing quite well, too.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 406
Paul C | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 2 2014 11:30 AM

Yes, But you seem to be replying to my post in the Other thread. >>>> http://community.logos.com/forums/p/84198/590585.aspx#590585 

Posts 525
Kent | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 2 2014 12:42 PM

Denise:
unfortunately doing quite well, too.

Interesting choice of words. 2. Tim. 4: 3-4 and 2 Tim. 3:2-4

Posts 11064
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 2 2014 12:52 PM

Paul C ... you're probably right!  I think I had to log in (I keep cookies/java off).

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 130
Willard Scott | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 3 2014 3:14 PM

Kent:
Interesting choice of words. 2. Tim. 4: 3-4 and 2 Tim. 3:2-4
                                          Yes

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