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Glenn F | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Jan 12 2010 12:40 PM | Locked

I need to know about how close beta 3 is to the actual 4b RTM. I would really, really like to have some of the added functionality in the beta. But, 1. I drive a truck and would not have access to a good high speed connection with any frequency. And 2. This laptop is my only machine so I would need to add another user account.

I will add that I only use L4 for my personal bible study and do not need it to prepare studies or sermons. Also I do not have to worry right now about importing notes from L3, it isn't even on this new laptop.

So should I download and use the beta 3 release or is the RTM version close. Any help deeply appreciated.

 

Thanks.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 12 2010 12:48 PM | Locked

Glenn,

I cannot directly answer you question, but believe that the 4.0b Beta 3 is very stable and usable. Some of the bugs just have to do with the new tools and features, not the existing functionality of 4.0a. There is a small risk involved in doing so, but I think Beta 3 would be a fine working version for you or someone who does not need Logos 4 on a deadline. You can post in the Beta forum and help develop the product if you do find a problem. Its up to you, but Beta 3 is pretty solid.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 12 2010 1:01 PM | Locked

I'm using Beta 3 exclusively on my laptop. It has been fairly stable. I've had a couple of crashed when I've used the command "close all" but other than that it has been just fine. I would be comfortable, in your position, overwriting 4.0a with the beta.

Just don't hold it against me if it doesn't play nice with your particular machine Smile

Posts 650
Jeremy | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 12 2010 1:03 PM | Locked

Kevin Becker:

I'm using Beta 3 exclusively on my laptop. It has been fairly stable. I've had a couple of crashed when I've used the command "close all" but other than that it has been just fine. I would be comfortable, in your position, overwriting 4.0a with the beta.

Just don't hold it against me if it doesn't play nice with your particular machine Smile

I am doing it as we speak. Updating the first beta will bring me to Beta 3 right?

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Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 12 2010 1:05 PM | Locked

JeremyEllis:
I am doing it as we speak. Updating the first beta will bring me to Beta 3 right?

Yes, it should.

Posts 55
Glenn F | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 12 2010 1:40 PM | Locked

Kevin Becker:
I'm using Beta 3 exclusively on my laptop. It has been fairly stable. I've had a couple of crashed when I've used the command "close all" but other than that it has been just fine. I would be comfortable, in your position, overwriting 4.0a with the beta.

 

But the beta will not update to a stable RTM release. Correct? So if I want to have a stable release and not a beta when the dust settles I need to keep them separated or plan on a complete re-install?

My main concern is lack of a internet connection on the road for even the little fixes, especially when those little fixes might be a 100MB download. A lot of the time the internet in truck stops you MIGHT achieve dialup and if you do then the bit torrent people open 900 connections and then it is not even dialup.

I really want to try it. so I just might download it tonight since it is my last night home. I appreciate all the help from you souls that are braver than I.

 

Kevin Becker:
Just don't hold it against me if it doesn't play nice with your particular machine Smile

 

I couldn't hold it against you, you look almost like my non-existent twin brother. Seriously you look almost like me. Stick out tongue

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 12 2010 1:49 PM | Locked

GlennFinch:
But the beta will not update to a stable RTM release. Correct?

Having not done this I don't know. However I think that switching between Beta and live versions is doable. There is a command (http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4_Commands) to set the update channel to default that I think would force the Beta to update to the live version. See the 'Set' section, line 19.

I know that a couple of users have had to sue this command to get the beta to download so I suspect it works in reverse.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 1150
Anthony H | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 12 2010 1:50 PM | Locked

GlennFinch:

But the beta will not update to a stable RTM release. Correct? So if I want to have a stable release and not a beta when the dust settles I need to keep them separated or plan on a complete re-install?

 

I was wonder about this also.

Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 12 2010 2:04 PM | Locked

GlennFinch:
But the beta will not update to a stable RTM release. Correct? So if I want to have a stable release and not a beta when the dust settles I need to keep them separated or plan on a complete re-install?

Mark is right, you can use the "set update channel to default" to update to 4.0b gold release whenever that comes out. I could be wrong but I think when 4.0b hits RC1 the update channel is changed to default in case that release candidate is good enough for gold status. I could be wrong though.

Finally, you don't have to keep them separate. When 4.0b is finally released to the general public you will only have to update the engine, a complete reinstall won't be necessary. Of course, there could be a pile of updated resources by the time you get back to a decent internet connection.

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Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 12 2010 2:05 PM | Locked

Anthony Hamlin:
I was wonder about this also.

If I remember right, you can install Beta over the stable version, but you are NOT able to do it vice versa. You would have to reinstall whole thing. The cure would be to have a backup copy of the stable installation on the ext. HDD and use it to get back to it if needed, without the full download.

EDITED:  Of course when we reach the point of release of 4.0b than there is no reinstall needed. You just continue with the possible engine install.

P.S. All Betas of 4.0a and 4.0b have been very stable for me.

Bohuslav

Posts 18822
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 12 2010 2:26 PM | Locked

Kevin Becker:

GlennFinch:
But the beta will not update to a stable RTM release. Correct? So if I want to have a stable release and not a beta when the dust settles I need to keep them separated or plan on a complete re-install?

Mark is right, you can use the "set update channel to default" to update to 4.0b gold release whenever that comes out. I could be wrong but I think when 4.0b hits RC1 the update channel is changed to default in case that release candidate is good enough for gold status. I could be wrong though.

I used the beta channel for 4.0 and if I recall it automatically gave me the release candidates and the gold version once that shipped. I did not have to use  "set update channel to default" to get it. However I decided not to play with the betas for 4.0a, so after I had the stable 4.0a RTM version, I ran "set update channel to default" to prevent them from downloading automatically. Then when 4.0b went into beta, I switched back to the beta channel, using  "set update channel to beta" and have been using it happily since then. There have only been a few bugs that have hampered me slightly, but nothing earthshattering. I'm liking the new features.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 12 2010 5:23 PM | Locked

Rosie Perera:
after I had the stable 4.0a RTM version, I ran "set update channel to default" to prevent them from downloading automatically.

Correct. If you did that whilst in beta you would still be using the beta Update channel ie.  "default" is relative and does not mean "stable".

These beta's are automatically on the beta channel but when an RC comes along Bradley will inform us how to update. Mark Barnes believes we can get stable releases on the beta channel, and I'm beginning to think that is so. I just noticed that 4.0a SR-3 is on the stable channel but NOT, obviously, on the beta channel. 4.0a SR-2 was on the beta channel BEFORE the 4.0b beta came out! Logos have to get this 4.0b RC right  eg. put it on beta but not stable until it is RTM.

Dave
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Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 12 2010 6:38 PM | Locked

GlennFinch:

But the beta will not update to a stable RTM release. Correct?

The beta will update to a stable release automatically.

(Further details: when 4.0b enters the "release candidate" stage, it is programmed to no longer check the beta channel for updates--because it's a release candidate, and we can't leave beta code in it. If we release a second RC, it will only be published to the beta channel, because it's still in testing. Thus, RC 1 won't find it automatically; it requires manual intervention to upgrade RC 1 to RC 2. However, when RC 2 (or RC 3 or RC 4...) is deemed stable enough to release, it will be published to the stable channel (as well as the beta channel). All 4.0b versions (beta or RC) will then automatically update themselves to it. So, a beta version will always update itself automatically to the stable RTM release; however, it may skip intermediate RC releases until you upgrade to them manually. Instructions for doing so will be posted if and when the need arises.)

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 12 2010 7:45 PM | Locked

Dave Hooton:

Rosie Perera:
after I had the stable 4.0a RTM version, I ran "set update channel to default" to prevent them from downloading automatically.

Correct. If you did that whilst in beta you would still be using the beta Update channel ie.  "default" is relative and does not mean "stable".

Really? That doesn't sound right. Of course I know that if I'm currently using a beta version and I change my update channel to "default" it's not going to give me the latest stable release, because you can't go backwards once you've already upgraded to a beta. But it can't be that this would leave me in the beta channel. There are only two possible channels to be in, beta and non-beta (e.g., stable, which is the default, because it is what Logos ships with and what most people who never use betas will have as their update channel.) Thus if I set my channel to "default" while using the beta, I'm still going to be using the beta version for the time being. But I switch over to waiting for the next stable version to be pushed out rather than the next beta. In other words, this should prevent future betas from downloading to me automatically. We've had times in the past where a beta release goes out with something badly broken in it from the previous beta. And if someone raises the red flag about it soon enough on the forum, I ought to be able to save myself the grief by temporarily changing my update channel to "default".

I'd like to hear Bradley's explanation directly. All I've heard thus far is your interpretation of it (http://community.logos.com/forums/p/8338/67409.aspx#67409). But I think you were misunderstanding at least part of this back then, because you said "if you set the update channel to beta you will receive only beta releases ie. you won't get stable releases" but Bradley (in supporting other commenters after you on that thread) and here above has just contradicted that notion: "The beta will update to a stable release automatically."

So I think you are still confused when you say (in that previous thread): "set update channel to default" is not the same thing as setting the update channel to stable; it will do that only if you are running a stable release. So the default channel for a beta release is the beta channel, the default channel for a stable release is the stable channel. "  As Mark pointed out afterwards, the stable channel is called "default" not "stable" so you can't set update channel to stable.

Bradley said over here that "set update channel to default" turns off the beta channel (which I take it to mean sets you to the other channel, i.e., the stable channel; there are only two possible channels). He did not say "it sets the channel to the default which is relative and happens to be the beta channel while you're running a beta."

There are two channels, and only two ways to set the channel, either to beta (which sets it to the beta channel) or default (which sets it to the stable channel, regardless of what version you happen to be running right now).

Bradley, could you please clarify one more time? And yes, I know this is a "use at your own risk" command.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 13 2010 4:58 AM | Locked

Rosie Perera:
I'd like to hear Bradley's explanation directly.

So would I, and I also had asked previously for a clarification.

Dave
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BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 13 2010 8:14 AM | Locked

Bradley Grainger:
when 4.0b enters the "release candidate" stage, it is programmed to no longer check the beta channel for updates--because it's a release candidate, and we can't leave beta code in it.

Hi Bradley,

Does that mean we have to go back & set update channel to beta? Not complaining, just trying to understand how those of us with CBD can stay glued to the beta update channel...

Blessings!

Bill

 

 

Grace & Peace,
Bill


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Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 13 2010 9:44 AM | Locked

There are two named channels: stable and beta. Stable contains stable releases and SRs only. Beta contains beta releases. We'll probably also put stable releases on the beta channel, too (while there is not an ongoing beta test) to help out users who left themselves on the beta channel.

"Default" is not the name of a channel; it simply means the default channel for the type of build you're running. The default channel for an RC build is stable. The default channel for an alpha/beta build is beta. "set update channel to default" simply clears any previously-set preference of which update channel to use and makes the program use the default one for the build you're running.

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Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 13 2010 9:45 AM | Locked

BillS:

Bradley Grainger:
when 4.0b enters the "release candidate" stage, it is programmed to no longer check the beta channel for updates--because it's a release candidate, and we can't leave beta code in it.

Does that mean we have to go back & set update channel to beta? Not complaining, just trying to understand how those of us with CBD can stay glued to the beta update channel...

Yes, that would be one way to upgrade from RC 1 to RC 2 (when there is an RC 2). The other way is to run a Logos4Setup.exe program directly; we will provide a link in the release notes if it's necessary.

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