Tyndale Commentary Download

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Posts 223
Paul Meathrel | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Jan 16 2010 7:13 AM

I purchased the Tyndale commentary series back last year when it first came on prepub. I received an email yesterday evening to say that it had been posted to me - which was great. However when I then logged onto Logos today I received the entire series (or at least 47 volumes) via download. So I've paid to have the CD shipped (when I would rather have had a download anyway) and then the series has arrived via download! This seems quite pointless to me! Anyone from Logos care to comment?!

I'm pleased to have received it but would rather have paid for a download! I guess an update of some description prompted the download.

Paul

Posts 3659
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 16 2010 10:53 AM

Hi Paul,

Others in the forums are asking for the same option--particularly international customers. If you have other prepubs, you might call them to see if your account can be configured that way. Even if it can't, if enough folks ask for it I'm sure they'll respond favorably.

Grace & Peace,
Bill


Asus GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 17 2010 4:10 PM

Paul Meathrel:

I purchased the Tyndale commentary series back last year when it first came on prepub. I received an email yesterday evening to say that it had been posted to me - which was great. However when I then logged onto Logos today I received the entire series (or at least 47 volumes) via download. So I've paid to have the CD shipped (when I would rather have had a download anyway) and then the series has arrived via download! This seems quite pointless to me! Anyone from Logos care to comment?!

I'm pleased to have received it but would rather have paid for a download! I guess an update of some description prompted the download.

Paul

Paul!  Peace to you!   And Joy!

           Thanks for posting.  I also received an e-mail from Logos saying mine had shipped.  Cost = $4.50 to Canada.  Because of your post, I looked at my L4 Library, and Lo!  And behold!     All 49 volumes are there.  I knew some resources downloaded yesterday, but not expecting Tyndale, I didn't look!

             Actually, I am pleased.  When the CD comes, I'll drop the resources into L3 which I am still maintaining on my computer.  Except for PBB's, Sentence Diagrams, and Timelines, I don't use L3 any longer...              And, am Lovin' L4 more everyday!          *smile*

                 ...........    Mel

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 4625
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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 17 2010 5:24 PM

Out of curiosity (which killed the cat, I know!) *smile*       ............             I downloaded the Tyndale (TNTS) Philippians from the Logos FTP site.  Synchronised my licenses first in L3, since obviously I had the L4 synchronisation and wanted to be synchronised in L3 also for sure  ......

There it was!         It's too much work to download all 49 resources, so I'll wait for the CD.   But, it can be done!        *smile*

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 67
LO | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 17 2010 9:26 PM

I too am perturbed about this issue: Even though the only pre-pub option was to order a CD, even though I e-mailed a Logos staff person asking if the Tyndale set would be released for L4, and even though I have already received the product via download, I am being charged for shipping.

It feels like I am being nick-and-dimed over an issue that is Logos' fault, not mine.

Logos, please update your system so that you are not charging us shipping for products which are provided to us already via download.

Posts 316
Luuk Dondorp | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 17 2010 10:41 PM

Laurence O'Donnell:

Logos, please update your system so that you are not charging us shipping for products which are provided to us already via download.

I agree.

The whole Tyndale Commentary Series was downloaded in Logos 4 automatically and I was able to download it from the FTP site in order to use it in Libronix.

So, sending us a CD is useless and wasting (my) money. Therefore I am hesitant to buy products that are not downloadable. That was the case with the Christmas IVP deal: the deal was good, but the mail postage was too much, so I decided against it. 

Perhaps Logos can give us a choice whether we want to have the CD / DVD shipped to us or not. 

Luuk

 

Posts 439
Mark Stevens | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 4:25 AM

I ordered it exactly the same way and I have been awaiting its download...NOTHING! 

 

Any clues on how to get I downloaded to L4 before the CD's arrive?

Posts 439
Mark Stevens | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 4:35 AM

I just received a 1gig download and I am assuming it is the Tyndales. I had forgotten to turn on "connect to the internet" after turning it off to troubleshoot another problem.

I think I was charged $3 for shipping. I kind of like having the hard disks as backups.

Posts 184
lostlogik | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 6:02 AM

I enquired about these when prepub as I didn't want to pay for international shipping but was told there was no d/l option because they came from a third party. To now find that there is a D/L option grates. I think Logos needs to sort these sort of issues out because it really does smack of poor customer relationship.

Posts 439
Mark Stevens | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 11:58 AM

I think you are going a bit far there Chris. Obviously Logos has done the best they can with this third party product. You may well discover that this has cost them money. It is not there fault the third party did not originally provide DL as an option. The product was caught between the two versions of Logos. It may well have been scheduled to be finished before L4 was released (it is my understanding third party products are developed by the third party and not Logos, but I could be wrong).

I am sure if you called customer service they would help you out and you would discover that there CS is anything but poor.

Posts 184
lostlogik | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 1:31 PM

Yes, with hindsight, too harsh a post, for which I apologise. I was a little miffed at not having a d/l option, not being able to accept a postal delivery and missing out on prepub. Still, c'est la vie. Shouldn't take it out on others.

Posts 56
David Langer | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 7:17 PM

I received a notice today that my CD-ROM was shipping, but I have no download option.  

For those wondering why no previous download option was offered, it may be that the publisher insists on the physical media being sold. . . just a thought

Posts 46
John Thomson | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 9:11 PM

Hey, I know a great address to which you can send the CD (s) you got in the mail, if you really do not like them 8-)

Posts 184
LogosEmployee
Dan Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 10:42 PM

I promise we love you! Big Smile we actually have meetings on a regular basis to deal with issues just like this to make sure we come up with the best possible solution for every challenge. We really do—no joke... giving the best customer service in the world is serious business here. We really work hard at it. Even during this time where we have had more calls in the last two months of 2009 than in the previous 10 months.

Let me see if I can shed some light on what happened.

The Tyndale Commentaries CD-ROM (49 Vols.) is a product produced by InterVarsity Press and is only available as a CD-ROM for Logos 3/Libronix. It was contracted a long time before Logos 4 shipped and actually comes in a big box with very impressive packaging from IVP.

Everyone who ordered this product ordered it on CD-ROM since that is the only version we are able to sell, the only version we offered, and the only version anyone purchased. It is not available as a downloadable purchase at all, since it is a third party product where we buy inventory to resell it.

In order to provide "above and beyond" customer service, we went out of our way to make the experience as painless as possible for our Logos 4 customers. This title was so popular that we knew we were going to potentially be faced with hundreds of customer service calls from Logos 4 customers who would receive a Logos 3 package with a serial number that they wouldn't necessarily know what to do with.

In order to honor our agreements with the publisher and customers (who all asked for it on CD-ROM since that was the only option) we shipped it to everyone that had ordered it, just as they had asked. The bonus of making the files available on the ftp and pre-activating it so not even one Logos 4 customer would have to worry about installing a Logos 3 product, was just a way of trying to go the extra mile and make the best of a system in transition.

The option to purchase it as a download was never on the table, and still is not. We can't sell it that way, and must honor that. The fact that it hit the ftp and was pre-activated to Logos 4 purchasers is a mechanical "behind the scenes" customer service bonus, and can't replace or invalidate the CD-ROM sale. Without the sale of the CD-ROM we could not have done that. See where I'm going? It's complicated...

The bonus is obvious, no waiting, no need to re-install Logos 3 and put a serial number in sync licenses, delete Logos 3, launch Logos 4, discover... call customer service, wait on hold, activate a serial number to your Libronix.net account... you get the painful picture. We just saw it coming, knew what a horrible customer service experience was on the horizon if we didn't do something, and tried to save us all that pain. Smile

Another call we had to make here was on the shipping costs. If we sent the product in the actual fancy packaging that IVP put it in, it would cost about $14.00 per order on average to ship it, and a lot more for international customers. On top of that, because of the way it was packaged, we had a very labor intensive procedure to perform on every order from a Logos 4 customer to open the packaging, unseal the product, remove the serial number and activate it to the user's account. That was the only way to honor all obligations and serve the customers with exceptional service.

We could have easily just forwarded the exact product we received, charged actual S&H and dealt with the customers who couldn't figure out how to get a Logos 3 product installed, activated and working on Logos 4, but we knew if we just went the extra mile we could save people money, time, and frustration... even though it was not our product, packaging, or challenge.

All that to say, there are some pretty complicated things going on behind the scenes and we really actually do always try to do the best thing for everyone and think ahead. Right now there are some big transition challenges that we are working through, and we are not always in control of all the options or decisions. For example, we still can't "sell" a download of the Tyndale Commentaries. You'll notice it is still CD only. Same with a lot of other titles. We have a lot of work to do to talk through the issues with all the publishers we partner with and it just takes time.

In a perfect world, all books ever published for Logos would be instantly downloadable and everything would be optimized for Logos 4 and every customer would have already upgraded and be on the same platform, it is just going to take time to get there. As you can imagine, we are very interested in making it easy to buy! We aren't in control of many of our most popular titles, and need to work with the publishers to make sure everyone is moving forward on the same page, the customers are taken care of, and that everything works together for the best experience possible. There are still some challenges looming (like... hey, what about all my existing pre-pub orders for CDs... hmmm... are they Logos 3 or 4... more on that later... before you ask, just know that as soon as the answers are ready we will contact you...) so know that we are well aware of the issues and are working around the clock to move the universe to a Logos 4 world where everything "just works" Wink

If you want to help us reach this perfect world sooner rather than later, please encourage everyone you can to upgrade to Logos 4 and life will be good for all.

Big Smile

Posts 2212
Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 11:12 PM

Dan,

Seriously, you needed to send an email to the customers explaining what was happening.

I like to know what you are doing when my money is concerned. International orders always take a couple of days to show up on my credit card. I had no way of knowing if I was being charged for shippin or not.

The end result is exactly as I would want it.. but the process is still greatly lacking.

 

Posts 2774
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2010 12:05 AM

Dan,

Thanks for the back story on this.  I have had enough expereinces with Logos (and in life) to know that it is worth giving you all the benefit of the doubt.  I tend to try and always give the benefit of the doubt even when I don't know people, because I hope people will give me the same grace in return (although that is rare in this world)

Dan, over the past 12 years of being a Logos customer I have gained a high regard for how well you all run a business that still goes the extra mile. I have run a couple companies over the years, and keeping high standards AND making a profit is hard!  A lot of Logos customers have never had to balance those things and I think it is hard for them to understand how hard it really is.  

Is Logos perfect, nope Surprise But it seems like you are in a tough spot.  Customers bought a product, agreed to have it shipped and pay for that shipping, yet when given a blessing of having it activated ahead of time, they get mad that Logos was not able to let them out of their contract.  Some folks will never be satisfied because they tend to see life with a "glass half empty" perspective.   But, I am glad for the positives I see from many customers.

 

Chris,

I appreciate your actions on this thread.  Even before you knew all the details that Dan posted, you realized you had assumed the worst, apologized and chose to believe the best of your brother and sisters at Logos--even when you were in the dark about the facts.  You are a great example of Christ-like maturity so thank you for that brother.  I wish I could see more of this on the forums Big Smile

PS

Mark, I put you in the same category as Chris.  I am encouraged by your positive attitude as well.  Thank you brother!  I notice these things and am appreciative. Cool

 

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

Posts 184
LogosEmployee
Dan Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2010 1:21 AM

Damian McGrath:

Seriously, you needed to send an email to the customers explaining what was happening.

I like to know what you are doing when my money is concerned. International orders always take a couple of days to show up on my credit card. I had no way of knowing if I was being charged for shippin or not.

Damian, I am sorry the email did not get to you.

Your email with full details was sent on 1/15/2010 at 9:06 AM from our servers. I did look at your account and noticed that you have multiple email addresses associated with your records, so it may have gone to one you don't normally check. If you have a preferred email address, make sure you update your records if you prefer one email address over the other.

Also, full details for all orders may always be found in the My Orders tab of your account, where you may see a copy of the email we sent.

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Milford Charles Murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2010 2:46 AM

Dan Pritchett:

Damian McGrath:

Seriously, you needed to send an email to the customers explaining what was happening.

I like to know what you are doing when my money is concerned. International orders always take a couple of days to show up on my credit card. I had no way of knowing if I was being charged for shippin or not.

 

Damian, I am sorry the email did not get to you.

Your email with full details was sent on 1/15/2010 at 9:06 AM from our servers. I did look at your account and noticed that you have multiple email addresses associated with your records, so it may have gone to one you don't normally check. If you have a preferred email address, make sure you update your records if you prefer one email address over the other.

Also, full details for all orders may always be found in the My Orders tab of your account, where you may see a copy of the email we sent.

Peace in the Lord to you, Dan!  *smile*   And Joy!

           For the record:  I'm "pretty much very absolutely happy" with you guys, and I thank you all for your work and efforts!        For your information and possible interest, I like Damian, did not get the email.  I'm not bothered by this, but thot I'd take a moment and let you know.  Also looked under my account but couldn't find a My Orders tab and there was no email under my Order History.  I was invited by Phil to be part of the L4 Beta Testing at the e-mail account that I used for the old Logos Newsgroups.  My Order Account is a different e-mail address and is the one shown on the HomePage of L4.

Yours in Christ,                     .........   Mel

Philippians 4:  4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........

Posts 439
Mark Stevens | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2010 2:57 AM

Joe Miller:

Mark, I put you in the same category as Chris.  I am encouraged by your positive attitude as well.  Thank you brother!  I notice these things and am appreciative. Cool

 

Not sure what you mean by "same category" but I will take it as a compliment!

 

Being an international customer has had its frustrations. It isn't easy to just call Logos. I called customer service the other day and when I was put through to tech support they Skyped me and helped me fix an issue I was having...BRILLIANT! Like you, I have come to trust that logos will do whatever it can and is not out to rip anyone off. 

Posts 439
Mark Stevens | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2010 3:04 AM

Dan Pritchett:
Another call we had to make here was on the shipping costs. If we sent the product in the actual fancy packaging that IVP put it in, it would cost about $14.00 per order on average to ship it, and a lot more for international customers. On top of that, because of the way it was packaged, we had a very labor intensive procedure to perform on every order from a Logos 4 customer to open the packaging, unseal the product, remove the serial number and activate it to the user's account. That was the only way to honor all obligations and serve the customers with exceptional service.

Dan, are you for real? You guys actually opened my CD and activated my product by hand (so to speak) and then re-packaged the CD and shipped it? WOW, can I say a HUGE thank you to you and your team for this laborious process. I appreciate it very much. Big Smile I hope the next time someone complains that you guys have not done enough that they would take the time to read this fact.

 

 

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