Tyndale Commentary Download

I purchased the Tyndale commentary series back last year when it first came on prepub. I received an email yesterday evening to say that it had been posted to me - which was great. However when I then logged onto Logos today I received the entire series (or at least 47 volumes) via download. So I've paid to have the CD shipped (when I would rather have had a download anyway) and then the series has arrived via download! This seems quite pointless to me! Anyone from Logos care to comment?!

I'm pleased to have received it but would rather have paid for a download! I guess an update of some description prompted the download.

Paul

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BillS

Hi Paul,

Others in the forums are asking for the same option--particularly international customers. If you have other prepubs, you might call them to see if your account can be configured that way. Even if it can't, if enough folks ask for it I'm sure they'll respond favorably.

Milford Charles Murray

I purchased the Tyndale commentary series back last year when it first came on prepub. I received an email yesterday evening to say that it had been posted to me - which was great. However when I then logged onto Logos today I received the entire series (or at least 47 volumes) via download. So I've paid to have the CD shipped (when I would rather have had a download anyway) and then the series has arrived via download! This seems quite pointless to me! Anyone from Logos care to comment?!

I'm pleased to have received it but would rather have paid for a download! I guess an update of some description prompted the download.

Paul

Paul! Peace to you! And Joy!

Thanks for posting. I also received an e-mail from Logos saying mine had shipped. Cost = $4.50 to Canada. Because of your post, I looked at my L4 Library, and Lo! And behold! All 49 volumes are there. I knew some resources downloaded yesterday, but not expecting Tyndale, I didn't look!

Actually, I am pleased. When the CD comes, I'll drop the resources into L3 which I am still maintaining on my computer. Except for PBB's, Sentence Diagrams, and Timelines, I don't use L3 any longer... And, am Lovin' L4 more everyday! *smile*

........... Mel

Milford Charles Murray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/78420#Comment_78420

Out of curiosity (which killed the cat, I know!) *smile* ............ I downloaded the Tyndale (TNTS) Philippians from the Logos FTP site. Synchronised my licenses first in L3, since obviously I had the L4 synchronisation and wanted to be synchronised in L3 also for sure ......

There it was! It's too much work to download all 49 resources, so I'll wait for the CD. But, it can be done! *smile*

I too am perturbed about this issue: Even though the only pre-pub option was to order a CD, even though I e-mailed a Logos staff person asking if the Tyndale set would be released for L4, and even though I have already received the product via download, I am being charged for shipping.

It feels like I am being nick-and-dimed over an issue that is Logos' fault, not mine.

Logos, please update your system so that you are not charging us shipping for products which are provided to us already via download.

Luuk Dondorp

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/78559#Comment_78559

Logos, please update your system so that you are not charging us shipping for products which are provided to us already via download.

I agree.

The whole Tyndale Commentary Series was downloaded in Logos 4 automatically and I was able to download it from the FTP site in order to use it in Libronix.

So, sending us a CD is useless and wasting (my) money. Therefore I am hesitant to buy products that are not downloadable. That was the case with the Christmas IVP deal: the deal was good, but the mail postage was too much, so I decided against it.

Perhaps Logos can give us a choice whether we want to have the CD / DVD shipped to us or not.

Mark Stevens

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/78578#Comment_78578

I ordered it exactly the same way and I have been awaiting its download...NOTHING!

Any clues on how to get I downloaded to L4 before the CD's arrive?

Mark Stevens

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/78649#Comment_78649

I just received a 1gig download and I am assuming it is the Tyndales. I had forgotten to turn on "connect to the internet" after turning it off to troubleshoot another problem.

I think I was charged $3 for shipping. I kind of like having the hard disks as backups.

lostlogik

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/78651#Comment_78651

I enquired about these when prepub as I didn't want to pay for international shipping but was told there was no d/l option because they came from a third party. To now find that there is a D/L option grates. I think Logos needs to sort these sort of issues out because it really does smack of poor customer relationship.

Mark Stevens

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/78671#Comment_78671

I think you are going a bit far there Chris. Obviously Logos has done the best they can with this third party product. You may well discover that this has cost them money. It is not there fault the third party did not originally provide DL as an option. The product was caught between the two versions of Logos. It may well have been scheduled to be finished before L4 was released (it is my understanding third party products are developed by the third party and not Logos, but I could be wrong).

I am sure if you called customer service they would help you out and you would discover that there CS is anything but poor.

lostlogik

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/78861#Comment_78861

Yes, with hindsight, too harsh a post, for which I apologise. I was a little miffed at not having a d/l option, not being able to accept a postal delivery and missing out on prepub. Still, c'est la vie. Shouldn't take it out on others.

David Langer

I received a notice today that my CD-ROM was shipping, but I have no download option.

For those wondering why no previous download option was offered, it may be that the publisher insists on the physical media being sold. . . just a thought

John Thomson

Hey, I know a great address to which you can send the CD (s) you got in the mail, if you really do not like them 8-)

Dan Pritchett

I promise we love you! [:D] we actually have meetings on a regular basis to deal with issues just like this to make sure we come up with the best possible solution for every challenge. We really do—no joke... giving the best customer service in the world is serious business here. We really work hard at it. Even during this time where we have had more calls in the last two months of 2009 than in the previous 10 months.

Let me see if I can shed some light on what happened.

The Tyndale Commentaries CD-ROM (49 Vols.) is a product produced by InterVarsity Press and is only available as a CD-ROM for Logos 3/Libronix. It was contracted a long time before Logos 4 shipped and actually comes in a big box with very impressive packaging from IVP.

Everyone who ordered this product ordered it on CD-ROM since that is the only version we are able to sell, the only version we offered, and the only version anyone purchased. It is not available as a downloadable purchase at all, since it is a third party product where we buy inventory to resell it.

In order to provide "above and beyond" customer service, we went out of our way to make the experience as painless as possible for our Logos 4 customers. This title was so popular that we knew we were going to potentially be faced with hundreds of customer service calls from Logos 4 customers who would receive a Logos 3 package with a serial number that they wouldn't necessarily know what to do with.

In order to honor our agreements with the publisher and customers (who all asked for it on CD-ROM since that was the only option) we shipped it to everyone that had ordered it, just as they had asked. The bonus of making the files available on the ftp and pre-activating it so not even one Logos 4 customer would have to worry about installing a Logos 3 product, was just a way of trying to go the extra mile and make the best of a system in transition.

The option to purchase it as a download was never on the table, and still is not. We can't sell it that way, and must honor that. The fact that it hit the ftp and was pre-activated to Logos 4 purchasers is a mechanical "behind the scenes" customer service bonus, and can't replace or invalidate the CD-ROM sale. Without the sale of the CD-ROM we could not have done that. See where I'm going? It's complicated...

The bonus is obvious, no waiting, no need to re-install Logos 3 and put a serial number in sync licenses, delete Logos 3, launch Logos 4, discover... call customer service, wait on hold, activate a serial number to your Libronix.net account... you get the painful picture. We just saw it coming, knew what a horrible customer service experience was on the horizon if we didn't do something, and tried to save us all that pain. [:)]

Another call we had to make here was on the shipping costs. If we sent the product in the actual fancy packaging that IVP put it in, it would cost about $14.00 per order on average to ship it, and a lot more for international customers. On top of that, because of the way it was packaged, we had a very labor intensive procedure to perform on every order from a Logos 4 customer to open the packaging, unseal the product, remove the serial number and activate it to the user's account. That was the only way to honor all obligations and serve the customers with exceptional service.

We could have easily just forwarded the exact product we received, charged actual S&H and dealt with the customers who couldn't figure out how to get a Logos 3 product installed, activated and working on Logos 4, but we knew if we just went the extra mile we could save people money, time, and frustration... even though it was not our product, packaging, or challenge.

All that to say, there are some pretty complicated things going on behind the scenes and we really actually do always try to do the best thing for everyone and think ahead. Right now there are some big transition challenges that we are working through, and we are not always in control of all the options or decisions. For example, we still can't "sell" a download of the Tyndale Commentaries. You'll notice it is still CD only. Same with a lot of other titles. We have a lot of work to do to talk through the issues with all the publishers we partner with and it just takes time.

In a perfect world, all books ever published for Logos would be instantly downloadable and everything would be optimized for Logos 4 and every customer would have already upgraded and be on the same platform, it is just going to take time to get there. As you can imagine, we are very interested in making it easy to buy! We aren't in control of many of our most popular titles, and need to work with the publishers to make sure everyone is moving forward on the same page, the customers are taken care of, and that everything works together for the best experience possible. There are still some challenges looming (like... hey, what about all my existing pre-pub orders for CDs... hmmm... are they Logos 3 or 4... more on that later... before you ask, just know that as soon as the answers are ready we will contact you...) so know that we are well aware of the issues and are working around the clock to move the universe to a Logos 4 world where everything "just works" [;)]

If you want to help us reach this perfect world sooner rather than later, please encourage everyone you can to upgrade to Logos 4 and life will be good for all.

[<:o)]

[:D]

Damian McGrath

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/79319#Comment_79319

Dan,

Seriously, you needed to send an email to the customers explaining what was happening.

I like to know what you are doing when my money is concerned. International orders always take a couple of days to show up on my credit card. I had no way of knowing if I was being charged for shippin or not.

The end result is exactly as I would want it.. but the process is still greatly lacking.

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/79330#Comment_79330

Dan,

Thanks for the back story on this. I have had enough expereinces with Logos (and in life) to know that it is worth giving you all the benefit of the doubt. I tend to try and always give the benefit of the doubt even when I don't know people, because I hope people will give me the same grace in return (although that is rare in this world)

Dan, over the past 12 years of being a Logos customer I have gained a high regard for how well you all run a business that still goes the extra mile. I have run a couple companies over the years, and keeping high standards AND making a profit is hard! A lot of Logos customers have never had to balance those things and I think it is hard for them to understand how hard it really is.

Is Logos perfect, nope [:O] But it seems like you are in a tough spot. Customers bought a product, agreed to have it shipped and pay for that shipping, yet when given a blessing of having it activated ahead of time, they get mad that Logos was not able to let them out of their contract. Some folks will never be satisfied because they tend to see life with a "glass half empty" perspective. But, I am glad for the positives I see from many customers.

Chris,

I appreciate your actions on this thread. Even before you knew all the details that Dan posted, you realized you had assumed the worst, apologized and chose to believe the best of your brother and sisters at Logos--even when you were in the dark about the facts. You are a great example of Christ-like maturity so thank you for that brother. I wish I could see more of this on the forums [:D]

Mark, I put you in the same category as Chris. I am encouraged by your positive attitude as well. Thank you brother! I notice these things and am appreciative. [H]

Dan Pritchett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/79330#Comment_79330

Seriously, you needed to send an email to the customers explaining what was happening.

I like to know what you are doing when my money is concerned. International orders always take a couple of days to show up on my credit card. I had no way of knowing if I was being charged for shippin or not.

Damian, I am sorry the email did not get to you.

Your email with full details was sent on 1/15/2010 at 9:06 AM from our servers. I did look at your account and noticed that you have multiple email addresses associated with your records, so it may have gone to one you don't normally check. If you have a preferred email address, make sure you update your records if you prefer one email address over the other.

Also, full details for all orders may always be found in the My Orders tab of your account, where you may see a copy of the email we sent.

Milford Charles Murray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/79339#Comment_79339

Seriously, you needed to send an email to the customers explaining what was happening.

I like to know what you are doing when my money is concerned. International orders always take a couple of days to show up on my credit card. I had no way of knowing if I was being charged for shippin or not.

Damian, I am sorry the email did not get to you.

Your email with full details was sent on 1/15/2010 at 9:06 AM from our servers. I did look at your account and noticed that you have multiple email addresses associated with your records, so it may have gone to one you don't normally check. If you have a preferred email address, make sure you update your records if you prefer one email address over the other.

Also, full details for all orders may always be found in the My Orders tab of your account, where you may see a copy of the email we sent.

Peace in the Lord to you, Dan! *smile* And Joy!

For the record: I'm "pretty much very absolutely happy" with you guys, and I thank you all for your work and efforts! For your information and possible interest, I like Damian, did not get the email. I'm not bothered by this, but thot I'd take a moment and let you know. Also looked under my account but couldn't find a My Orders tab and there was no email under my Order History. I was invited by Phil to be part of the L4 Beta Testing at the e-mail account that I used for the old Logos Newsgroups. My Order Account is a different e-mail address and is the one shown on the HomePage of L4.

Yours in Christ, ......... Mel

Mark Stevens

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/79333#Comment_79333

Mark, I put you in the same category as Chris. I am encouraged by your positive attitude as well. Thank you brother! I notice these things and am appreciative.

Not sure what you mean by "same category" but I will take it as a compliment!

Being an international customer has had its frustrations. It isn't easy to just call Logos. I called customer service the other day and when I was put through to tech support they Skyped me and helped me fix an issue I was having...BRILLIANT! Like you, I have come to trust that logos will do whatever it can and is not out to rip anyone off.

Mark Stevens

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/79319#Comment_79319

Another call we had to make here was on the shipping costs. If we sent the product in the actual fancy packaging that IVP put it in, it would cost about $14.00 per order on average to ship it, and a lot more for international customers. On top of that, because of the way it was packaged, we had a very labor intensive procedure to perform on every order from a Logos 4 customer to open the packaging, unseal the product, remove the serial number and activate it to the user's account. That was the only way to honor all obligations and serve the customers with exceptional service.

Dan, are you for real? You guys actually opened my CD and activated my product by hand (so to speak) and then re-packaged the CD and shipped it? WOW, can I say a HUGE thank you to you and your team for this laborious process. I appreciate it very much. [:D] I hope the next time someone complains that you guys have not done enough that they would take the time to read this fact.

Damian McGrath

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/79339#Comment_79339

Damian, I am sorry the email did not get to you.

Your email with full details was sent on 1/15/2010 at 9:06 AM from our servers

Dan,

I received the stock standard email informing me that my prepub was preparing to ship and that my credit card was being charged (including shipping charges!).

I received no email informing me of a change in practice with regard to how CD only orders were being handled or that you would be personally opening our orders and entering the details into our account. Is this the email which was sent to me on the 15th of January?

As I said, I'm happy with the end result, but the process is lacking,,,,

Damian McGrath

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/79333#Comment_79333

Customers bought a product, agreed to have it shipped and pay for that shipping, yet when given a blessing of having it activated ahead of time, they get mad that Logos was not able to let them out of their contract. Some folks will never be satisfied because they tend to see life with a "glass half empty" perspective. But, I am glad for the positives I see from many customers.

Joe,

How hard is it to understand that some customers may wonder why they are being charged for shipping when we have NOT been told there would be no shipping charge? I was told that my card had been charged in accord with my order.Fine! I then find that my product is being downloaded. Great! Why am I being charged to be sent something I already have? Oh.. three days later, I'm told that I was not being charged for shipping and I'm not being sent the CDs... How hard would it be to tell us that ahead of time?

Mark Stevens

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/79363#Comment_79363

Can someone please confirm: WILL WE RECEIVE THE CD'S for these commentaries?

even though it has downloaded I wouldn't mind having the disks for L3...

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/79358#Comment_79358

Mark, I put you in the same category as Chris. I am encouraged by your positive attitude as well. Thank you brother! I notice these things and am appreciative.

Not sure what you mean by "same category" but I will take it as a compliment!

The category of someone who has encouraged me with a positive attitude. [:)]

Paul M

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/79363#Comment_79363

how hard is it to understand that some customers may wonder why they are being charged for shipping when we have NOT been told there would be no shipping charge? I was told that my card had been charged in accord with my order.Fine! I then find that my product is being downloaded. Great! Why am I being charged to be sent something I already have? Oh.. three days later, I'm told that I was not being charged for shipping and I'm not being sent the CDs... How hard would it be to tell us that ahead of time?

So what I'm unclear on is whether all people who ordered this have been charged shipping or whether none of us have? What did you have on your credit card Damian?

Dan Pritchett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/79365#Comment_79365

Can someone please confirm: WILL WE RECEIVE THE CD'S for these commentaries?

Yes Mark, you will receive the CD-ROM shipment, as will all customers of this CD-ROM product. That is the only way we can complete the "sale" under our current terms even though the "files" and "activation" are accomplished, the "sale" is not until the customers receive the physical CD-ROM in this very unique situation.

So what I'm unclear on is whether all people who ordered this have been charged shipping or whether none of us have?

Paul, all customers for this product ordered the CD-ROM option and we are delivering what they ordered. All customers will be charged for the product and S&H. You order records will show the exact amounts charged, you should have received an email receipt with the same information, but if you did not see that you may always check your order receipts at https://www.logos.com/user/MyOrders

There are a few orders that still have not been processed due to declined/expired/mistyped credit cards, but other than that all orders have been processed.

Ted Hans

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/79586#Comment_79586

Thanks Dan for the explanation it makes sense to me.[Y]

However i have a question. What about Logos products that are only available on CDs like the "Commentary on the Psalms by E.W. Hengstenberg" on Pre-Pub? Is there a move on your part to making this and the rest of the CD LOGOS products on Pre-Pub download? I can understand the issues with third party products but what about your products where you do have control? You can make the change.

How are we going to make the switch from CD to download if you make the decision to offer it as a download option at a future date before it ships from Pre-Pub? As an international customer i can tell you, i prefer the download option.

Thanks.

Ted

Luuk Dondorp

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/79319#Comment_79319

I promise we love you! we actually have meetings on a regular basis to deal with issues just like this to make sure we come up with the best possible solution for every challenge. We really do—no joke... giving the best customer service in the world is serious business here. We really work hard at it. Even during this time where we have had more calls in the last two months of 2009 than in the previous 10 months.

Let me see if I can shed some light on what happened.

The Tyndale Commentaries CD-ROM (49 Vols.) is a product (...........)

(.........) so know that we are well aware of the issues and are working around the clock to move the universe to a Logos 4 world where everything "just works"

If you want to help us reach this perfect world sooner rather than later, please encourage everyone you can to upgrade to Logos 4 and life will be good for all.

Thank you Dan for this clear explanation.

I didn't know about al of the efforts behind the scenes in order to take care of all the customers and the publishing partners as well. I am learning to know you as a very trustworthy company going great lengths to please your customers and taking responsibility as well. And I see your willingness to learn and listen.

For example: just the way you (and Bob) are spending so much time and effort to write this (and others) explanatory posts. Where in the world you will find such a company. Oh, sure, there must be more of these. Perhaps even better. But for the moment I found one: Logos.

Well, looks nice..a Logos universe At least on my computer.

Dan Pritchett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/79613#Comment_79613

How are we going to make the switch from CD to download if you make the decision to offer it as a download option at a future date before it ships from Pre-Pub? As an international customer i can tell you, i prefer the download option.

Ted, we are working on a plan for this right now. This is a big challenge in more ways than one, so in order to make sure it gets taken care of with as much ease and simplicity as possible, I'm going to wait until the complete plan is in place before giving out any more details. As soon as it is ready we will let everyone know.

Ted Hans

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/79730#Comment_79730

Ted, we are working on a plan for this right now. This is a big challenge in more ways than one, so in order to make sure it gets taken care of with as much ease and simplicity as possible, I'm going to wait until the complete plan is in place before giving out any more details. As soon as it is ready we will let everyone know

Thanks Dan for taking time out to respond to my questions, much appreciated.

Every Blessings.

Ted.

Mark Stevens

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/79586#Comment_79586

Yes Mark, you will receive the CD-ROM shipment, as will all customers of this CD-ROM product. That is the only way we can complete the "sale" under our current terms even though the "files" and "activation" are accomplished, the "sale" is not until the customers receive the physical CD-ROM in this very unique situation.

I would also like to thank you for taking the time to answer the question Dan. If I could buy you a coffee I would! [:D]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/79319#Comment_79319

Dear Dan,

On the one hand I appreciate your explanation. On the other, from the perspective of a customer who has already invested substantially in an upgrade, your conclusion is a non sequitur and raises an underlying question:

If you want to help us reach this perfect world sooner rather than later, please encourage everyone you can to upgrade to Logos 4 and life will be good for all.

In actuality it is Logos, not the customers, who needs to upgrade (a) its products, (b) its licensing agreements, and (c) its current advertising and product distribution methods in order to account for the "interim" period which Logos created and in which Logos is asking customers to live.

Case in point: as a L4 user I need the old Libronix program in order to use the Tyndale CD Logos just mailed me. (BTW, telling customers that the CD is "for backup purposes" is another example. The advertising for L4 explicitly claims no need for backups....)

For us Mac users especially, Logos has asked us to run two programs (i.e. the old version and the new version). Ok, that's fine for the interim. I've been willing to go along (again, I've invested heavily with my checkbook). But, from the customer's perspective, the underlying question is this: If Logos wants its customers to upgrade, then customers want to know first whether Logos itself is fully committed to upgrading its products and processes--especially during this interim period?

I'm sure you will say "yes." However, it is somewhat disconcerting that your answer to Ted Hans' question is not a straight "yes," but "we're working on it."

Dan Pritchett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/80192#Comment_80192

In actuality it is Logos, not the customers, who needs to upgrade (a) its products, (b) its licensing agreements, and (c) its current advertising and product distribution methods in order to account for the "interim" period which Logos created and in which Logos is asking customers to live.

Laurence, I am sorry if my message came across the wrong way. I am a marketing guy, and I was simply trying to encourage people in a friendly way to do word of mouth advertising for us, there was no deeper message other than to say "we love it when you spread the word for us! Tell your friends!"

As far as saying "we're working on it." to Ted Hans' question instead of a straight "yes" I figured I was just being more conversational than robotic. I basically understood the question to be "are you aware of all the issues and are you working on them to make sure the situation will be addressed?" Since I had already addressed the question before it came up I could have said "Yes" and left it at that, I was simply trying to be more conversational and reassuring. I am sorry it came across the opposite way.

Joe Heng

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/80438#Comment_80438

Hi,

I would like to check what is the file name of the Tydnale Commentaries. My order has moved from Pre-Pub to my order, thus I assume that if I do License Sync I will be able to use the books once I am able to download it.

I am in Australia so that CD may take a while to arrive. In the mean time I am hoping to be able to use some of the commentary for my sermon preparation.

Please advice.

joe

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/80572#Comment_80572

Check they are in your L3 licence by doing Tools | Library Management | Account Summary. You should readily find them under the name LLS:TNTC* and LLS:TOTC* (where * is any sequence of letters/numbers).

You can download from FTP site ftp://ftp.logos.com/lbxbooks/. They are:-

TNTC*.lbxlls (20 volumes)

TOTC*.lbxlls (29 volumes)

Total 63 MB

Don't copy them direct to L4. Download to a folder (which could be L3 resource folder) and use the scan <Tyndale folder> command in L4 + restart L4.

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/80438#Comment_80438

I could have said "Yes" and left it at that, I was simply trying to be more conversational and reassuring.

Thank you Dan for your "yes" and even more [:)] It sounds promising for all of us who are trying to avoid paying unnecessary shipment fee in the time when Logos operates completely in the download way. I know it is not possible to change all the products at once. I appreciate your hard work to make it easier for us. Thanks.

Dan Pritchett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/79730#Comment_79730

The system to convert all of your existing CD/DVD Pre-Pub orders to the download option at the same price you locked in is ready! If you haven't seen today's blog post, go check it out:

http://blog.logos.com/archives/2010/02/change_your_cd-rom_pre-pub_orders_to_downloads.html

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/89229#Comment_89229

Great news! And a great step forward for L4.