Fundamentalist Base Package and King James Only Resource Collection

Page 4 of 5 (82 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next >
This post has 81 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 27034
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 3 2015 8:34 PM

This is not the appropriate forum for this discussion - please read the guidelines. I am sufficiently informed on alternative canons and manuscript traditions to know rather precisely Eramus' sources, his modifications based on comparison to other texts, to know the variations between Eramus text and the Patriarchal text of the Orthodox (Byzantine) Church, to know that Eramus access to manuscripts was severely limited and of comparative recent province when he accessed them ...And pointing to an anti-Catholic polemic page is bad form in these forums (again see guidelines). The purpose of these forums is to allow everyone using Logos/Verbum to feel comfortable coming on the forums, asking questions and receiving answers.

It is very appropriate to ask that a bundle of KJVO materials be offered. It is highly desirable that a Fundamentalist base package be offered ... assuming I understand correctly what is intended by "fundamentalist" ... a question that was not answered IIRC.

And to clarify ... by Western Church I mean the Church in the West - primarily Latin based; by Byzantine Church I mean the middle strip geographically - primarily Greek based; by Eastern Church I mean the Church to the East of Byzanthium - primarily Syriac based. For a relevant bibliography see the canon comparison interactive tool.

For anyone wanting to read an academic support for the Textus Receptus, I'd recommended John William Burgon"s The Revision Revised (1881),  Edward Miller's A Guide to the Textual Criticism of the New Testament (1886).or Edward F. Hills' The King James Version Defended: A Christian View of the New Testament Manuscripts (1956).

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 3938
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 3 2015 8:58 PM

The question still remains, does fallacy hound like to come out and play? Or would he prefer to stay home sitting in his doghouse, or on his masters lap?

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 27034
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 3 2015 9:06 PM

abondservant:

The question still remains, does fallacy hound like to come out and play? Or would he prefer to stay home sitting in his doghouse, or on his masters lap?

The poor mutt can't contain himself ... he's turning in circles, jumping to lick my face, and too excited to hold still for a public appearance.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 32
KJB1611 | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 4 2015 4:28 AM

Dear M. J. Smith, 

Thanks again for the comment.  I agree that the resources you listed would be great for a KJVO collection.

Far be it from me to keep anyone from being comfortable coming on these forums asking questions and receiving answers.

I would suggest that the historical resources I referenced on the page termed "anti-Catholic polemic" are indeed relevant to the topic, as for one who believes, like I do, that neither the Western nor Eastern State-churches constitute Christ's congregation, but that the Anabaptist dissenters who existed from the 1st century until the present do, this fact has significant implications for the question of what is the ecclesiastical text.  Thus, the fact that the Waldensian Bible contained 1 John 5:7 is very significant for a KJVO of my stripe and counterbalances its absence in the majority of MSS copied by Eastern Orthodox monks.  The prominent KJVO writer David Otis Fuller, among others, pointed out that the line of 20 centuries of Anabaptist/Baptist dissent used a Textus Receptus sort of text.

Thanks again.

Posts 27034
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 4 2015 8:56 AM

Dear KJB1611 -

Please understand this is not the place for this kind of discussion ...nor for the reference page you gave which does make others uncomfortable coming on these forums. Given that I defined the 3 broad categories of churches for purposes of Bible manuscript traditions geographically, your comments deserve

To avoid violating the guidelines myself, I'm pulling out of this thread.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 32
KJB1611 | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 4 2015 10:10 AM

Dear M. J. Smith,

Thank you so much for your helpful comments in this thread.

Dear all,

Here is part 2 of a response to James White's video discussed earlier:

http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2015/08/more-james-white-on-version-issue_4.html

Posts 5253
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 4 2015 5:21 PM

Please try to refrain from sharing links other than to things like a link to a book you wish to see introduced to Logos. I know you mean no harm whatsoever but all in all this is suppose to be a theologically neutral zone. FL has given users a forum called Christian Discourses to discuss things. Try to imagine links to "Gay Christians" websites or even more disturbing "Reasons Why Jesus is Not God". This is primarily designed to offer technical help for FL products. Most of us have been guilty now and then of sharing things that go past the line, so just a word of reminder of the forum guidelines. God Bless and I hope you can get your collections soon.

-Dan

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 4 2015 6:14 PM

Dan beat me to it (was going to respond earlier today but Logos had an outage), but these forums, as Dan mentioned, are mainly "technical" forums. The goal of these forums is to get tech support for Faithlife/Logos products, suggest resources/collections you want to see in Faithlife/Logos products, etc. Theological discussions are best left to ChristianDiscourse.com, which is another Faithlife/Logos forum site, but specifically targeted for Theological/Biblical type discussions. 

This thread is best used for making a list of resources you'd want to see in a Faithlife/Logos collection (such as a Fundamental Collection with resources that defends fundamentalism, the KJV, etc) and if you want to go into a Theological discussion on fundamentalism, KJV only, etc, moving those links and discussions to ChristianDiscourse.com would be ideal. 

For what it's worth, I would be interested in a Fundamental Collection with resources that advocate a KJV only position, and I know other colleges and churches that would be interested in it, as well as if you start a discussion on fundamentalism and/or KJV only over on ChristianDiscourse.com, I'd be happy to read it and watch the discussion unfold.

Faithlife/Logos just wishes to keep things organized and "on topic" by having a technical/support/product suggestion forum separate from their Theology/debate forum.

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 3938
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 4 2015 8:09 PM

MJ. Smith:

Dear KJB1611 -

Please understand this is not the place for this kind of discussion (...) your comments deserve

To avoid violating the guidelines myself, I'm pulling out of this thread.



:):):):)YesYesYesYesYes

KJB1611:

Dear M. J. Smith, 

Thanks again for the comment.  I agree that the resources you listed would be great for a KJVO collection.

Far be it from me to keep anyone from being comfortable coming on these forums asking questions and receiving answers.

I would suggest that the historical resources I referenced on the page termed "anti-Catholic polemic" are indeed relevant to the topic, as for one who believes, like I do, that neither the Western nor Eastern State-churches constitute Christ's congregation, but that the Anabaptist dissenters who existed from the 1st century until the present do, this fact has significant implications for the question of what is the ecclesiastical text.  Thus, the fact that the Waldensian Bible contained 1 John 5:7 is very significant for a KJVO of my stripe and counterbalances its absence in the majority of MSS copied by Eastern Orthodox monks.  The prominent KJVO writer David Otis Fuller, among others, pointed out that the line of 20 centuries of Anabaptist/Baptist dissent used a Textus Receptus sort of text.

Thanks again.


Zip it!Zip it!Zip it!Zip it!Zip it!
DogDogDogDogDog A pack of  Fallacy Puppies.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 4 2015 8:14 PM

Thanks all.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 32
Posts 3156
LogosEmployee
Thomas Ball | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 5 2015 3:13 PM

KJB1611:

I would like to draw attention to the response to James White's video here:

http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2015/08/more-james-white-on-version-issue.html

I intend to publish a reply also, Lord willing, although I have not gotten around to it yet.

I would like to debate Mr. White on the topic below.

The Scriptural paradigm of preservation fits the King James Version and its underlying Greek text better than the Greek critical text and modern Bible versions translated from it.

Affirm: Thomas Ross

Deny: James White

or:

The Scriptural paradigm of preservation fits  the Greek critical text and modern Bible versions translated from it better than the King James Version and the Greek Received Text.

Affirm: James White

Deny: Thomas Ross 

In relation to the original topic on this forum, I suspect that James White himself and anti-KJVO people would themselves buy a KJVO collection so that they could better oppose the dangerous heresy of believing in the perfect preservation of Scripture as taught by the London Baptist Confession of Faith.

As MJ and others have mentioned, these forums are for discussion regarding Faithlife and the products Faithlife produces. Though suggesting resources can easily stray into theological discussions this is not the place for them. Please refrain from such conversation in the future. Here is a link to our forum guidelines https://community.logos.com/forums/t/10072.aspx

Thank you.

 

Posts 2423
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 5 2015 7:16 PM

Take a look at: 

""Welcome to Christian Discourse! Christian Discourse is a civilized place for public discussion. Here you can share your thoughts, questions, and experiences about the Christian Faith and all its facets. Find the right category for your contribution and become part of the community!""

http://christiandiscourse.com/  

[[Warning: Some topics get 'flamed' but just ignore those replies]]

Posts 933
Matthew | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 6 2015 12:07 PM

Just adding a suggestion that if there is a KJV resource collection released, Faithlife might want to use it as an opportunity to review and beef up the Textus Receptus offerings. Specifically I am referring to (in no particular order):

1. Including at least one edition of the Greek New Testament by Erasmus. See https://community.logos.com/forums/p/113732/753444.aspx

2. Including a COMPLETE copy of Scrivener's Greek text. From what I can tell, Logos offers Scrivener in three flavors, two of which are missing the preface and all  three of which are missing an appendix mentioned in the preface. See https://community.logos.com/forums/p/113850/754069.aspx

3. Including the 1633 text of the Elzevirs. This was the edition with the famous statement in the preface, “Textum ergo habes, nunc ab omnibus receptum: in quo nihil immutatum aut corruptum damus” (“You have therefore the text now received by all: in which we give nothing altered or corrupt.”). It is from this that the term "Textus Receptus" arose, yet this edition does not appear to be available in Logos. All I see is this, which only has a modern preface (although it is not labelled as such), not a preface from the original publication: https://www.logos.com/product/1795/elzevir-textus-receptus

4. Updating any other relevant TR texts that may only be partial texts. Points 2 and 3 make me question if relevant parts are missing from other texts. I don't know. Others may be better able to comment on this.

5. Including at least one edition of Beza's text.

Yes, these texts only vary in minor ways, especially after printing errors are taken into consideration, but they also have historical and academic value. Since I think I already made my point here, I will spare the Logos community from having to read threads entitled "Has anyone seen Beza?" and "Has anyone seen the Elzevirs?" Smile

Posts 32
KJB1611 | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 6 2015 12:16 PM

Dear Matthew,

Very good idea.  Publishing a complete Ben Chayyim 1524-1525 Rabbinic Bible (online in the public domain here: http://faithsaves.net/bibliology/) would be a good one to include also, as would the Ginsburg ed. of the Hebrew Textus Receptus as published by the Trinitarian Bible society

Posts 32
KJB1611 | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 6 2015 12:20 PM

Also:

Introduction to the Rabbinic Bible, Jacob ben Chayyim

Introduction to the Massoretico-critical edition of the Hebrew Bible, C. D. Ginsburg

which are in the public domain and linked to here (http://faithsaves.net/hebrew-courses/

these Hebrew text resources would also be valuable in a general textual criticism package, and I could see both TR/KJV and critical text resources bundled together and finding their way into a base package, as some already are.

Posts 32
KJB1611 | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 6 2015 12:23 PM

The Gomez revision of the Reina-Valera would also be a great feature for Logos, e. g.:

http://www.4thesaviour.com/8.html

Posts 10127
Forum MVP
NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 6 2015 2:04 PM

KJB1611:
The Gomez revision of the Reina-Valera would also be a great feature for Logos

User DominicM made it into a Personal Book bible: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/83996/588901.aspx#588901 

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 32
KJB1611 | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 17 2015 12:57 PM

David Otis Fuller's works defending the KJV are held by the Institute for Biblical Textual Studies, and Logos can contact them to get permission to use them:

http://kjv-ibts.org/

David Cloud's works defending the KJV are at:

http://wayoflife.org

so Logos can contact him there for permission.

The Biblical theology of the Perfect Preservation of Scripture edited by Kent Brandenburg can have permission obtained by contacting Bethel Baptist Church here:

http://www.pillarandground.org/home/

and permissions for the KJVO essays here:

http://faithsaves.net/bibliology/

can be obtained here:

http://faithsaves.net/contact-us/

I hope Logos acts on these soon!

Posts 27034
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 17 2015 1:05 PM

When Logos does not have a relationship already established with a publisher, I assume it will take at least a year although it has occasionally been less when the publisher was already primed for contact by Logos.

When there is a relationship with the publisher, I still allow at least six months for them to cycle back to negotiating with a particular publisher.

In short, anything under a year and a half I assume was "already in the works".

This is pure speculation based on experience with no actual knowledge of their process for negotiating rights.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Page 4 of 5 (82 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next > | RSS