Page 1 of 2 (30 items) 1 2 Next >
This post has 29 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 634
Pastor Michael Huffman | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Feb 23 2010 7:23 PM

Is there anyone out there that can help me build a syntax search in Logos 4? Thanks!Smile

Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M

Posts 19082
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 23 2010 8:38 PM

Post specifically what you're trying to search for here, and someone will likely respond to you with some help.

Also check out the wiki page on syntax search strategy (http://wiki.logos.com/A_Strategy_for_Syntax_Search), as that might help you be able to figure it out on your own.

Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 24 2010 5:12 AM

I would be happy to help, as Rosie suggests post the specifics of what you want to search for.

I also suggest reading these threads to help acclimate yourself to the logic of syntax search.

http://community.logos.com/forums/t/6312.aspx

http://community.logos.com/forums/t/8109.aspx

http://community.logos.com/forums/t/9154.aspx

http://community.logos.com/forums/t/8872.aspx

http://community.logos.com/forums/t/5356.aspx

I also recommend Mike Heiser's syntax vids linked to here:

http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4_Video_Tutorials

Posts 19082
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 24 2010 9:53 PM

For some reason those first four links weren't clickable. Here they are again. Hopefully they'll work this time. Thanks, Kevin, for digging up all those threads!

http://community.logos.com/forums/t/6312.aspx

http://community.logos.com/forums/t/8109.aspx

http://community.logos.com/forums/t/9154.aspx

http://community.logos.com/forums/t/8872.aspx

 

Posts 110
Philip E. Sumpter | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 26 2010 12:49 PM

Could someone tell me how to emulate the structure of Ps 122:7 so that I can search for other structures? I feel I'm not to bad in doing syntactic searches, but this one is tough. I own Logos 4 and 3, use 3 for syntax searches as I haven't time to figure out version 4 yet.

Posts 4768
RIP
Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 26 2010 3:11 PM

I took a stab at it just because I am trying to learn as much about syntax searches as I can. I could not get a search to return a result that included your passage. It actually runs from verse 7 into verse 8.

I think where I am messing up is emulating the verb that is used by both clauses. The benefactive in verse 8 is also used by both clauses. I would imagine one of the forum's syntax experts is going to look at that passage and say "oh, that's easy". Fortunately right after they do that, they will likely share their knowledge with all of us. I look forward to seeing how this one is handled. It is going to be a great lesson for both of us. Thanks for asking the question.Smile

Kevin, are you out there?Big Smile

Posts 26033
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 26 2010 4:37 PM

Fred Chapman:
I took a stab at it just because I am trying to learn as much about syntax searches as I can. I could not get a search to return a result that included your passage. It actually runs from verse 7 into verse 8.

Andersen-Forbes OT syntax search is not something I do eagerly! 

The basic structure is  Clause ---> multiple Clause IC's and then fill in the appropriate details for each Clause IC  (Immediate Constituent). So I got out the A-F Glossary to search it for some terms in the structure of Ps 122:7 eg. Basic Search for benefactive (right click benf gram to get the expansion). No results, so I try beneficiary and get the clues for Clause IC, Other Participants. The other abbreviations come in a similar fashion.

So here is a basic structure that returns Ps 122:7

The two Clauses in  the passage appear the same but it was only when I put Anything between Subject and Beneficiary that I got a result.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 26033
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 26 2010 4:45 PM

Here's a better query, after I found Location under Space.

It should return 5 results.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 26033
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 26 2010 5:04 PM

Dave Hooton:
Here's a better query

Sorry it was done not in L3, but it should be easily reproduced. Do attempt it in L4 though - you click the Plus + to get a list of elements and you'll get the idea fairly quickly which one of the four puts it where you want it! If it is wrong just right click to Delete it.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 26 2010 5:23 PM

My first search that provided the example was this:

It produces a fair number of hits. Dave's example above with a gap and then beneficiary is better depending on what you are looking to do with the results.

However, the thing that puzzles me is why this search does not return any results

I thought this structure would avoid any complications from the two clauses sharing a verb... evidently it doesn't. If there's a way to account for a second clause using the verb from another clause (or any similar situation) I haven't figure it out. The expansive nature of the A-F database makes it more difficult to deal with than Cascadia or Opentext.

Posts 3578
steve clark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 26 2010 6:38 PM

Dave Hooton:

Here's a better query, after I found Location under Space.

It should return 5 results.

Not being familiar with original language, i built a step by step instruction sheet (for my use later) which might be useful to  those who haven't used Syntax Query building.

3365.Syntax Example1.pdf

It should guide you step by step using Logos4 to build the above example of Dave's.

Edit: you can use the same process to build Kevin's example.

QLinks, Bibl2, LLR, Macros
Dell Insp 17-5748, i5, 1.7 GHz, 8G RAM, win 8.1

Posts 26033
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 26 2010 8:07 PM

Kevin Becker:
I thought this structure would avoid any complications from the two clauses sharing a verb.

I avoided that structure because I suspected a "gap" relationship between the specified Clause IC's. My KISS principle!

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 26033
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 26 2010 8:13 PM

steve clark:
It should guide you step by step using Logos4 to build the above example of Dave's.

Steve, that is excellent. We need to get that on the wiki and tie it in with the existing Syntax topics, somehow .....

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 3578
steve clark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 26 2010 9:22 PM

Dave Hooton:
We need to get that on the wiki and tie it in with the existing Syntax topics

Dave,

Please check out the new wiki page Setting up a Syntax Search

Also please see if the link to the above page looks OK in A Strategy for Syntax Search , i placed it in the See Also section on the right. If you think it needs to be somewhere else on this page, let me know or feel free to move it.

Also on the Table of Contents page i placed a link under Searching .

 

QLinks, Bibl2, LLR, Macros
Dell Insp 17-5748, i5, 1.7 GHz, 8G RAM, win 8.1

Posts 26033
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 26 2010 11:56 PM

steve clark:
Please check out the new wiki page Setting up a Syntax Search

That's very well done. I'll incorporate a few refinements (linking Syntax topics) and then we can add a NT (Cascadia) Syntax example to your Setting page - I'll get back with an example.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 3578
steve clark | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 27 2010 12:01 AM

Dave Hooton:
we can add a NT (Cascadia) Syntax example to your Setting page - I'll get back with an example.

Please include pictures. i don't have Cascadia (it doesn't come with Scholar's package, think you need Silver or Gold). Perhaps i can give you my email address and you could send the pics that way (it would prevent cluttering up the forum). Or you could attach a file as i did on my previous post. (i will check tomorrow....its 2am here...my eyes have gone blurry...Crying )

QLinks, Bibl2, LLR, Macros
Dell Insp 17-5748, i5, 1.7 GHz, 8G RAM, win 8.1

Posts 26033
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 27 2010 5:58 AM

Well it's nearly Sunday and a busy day ahead here - probably Monday your time before I get back with a file.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 4768
RIP
Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 27 2010 5:05 PM

To all who contributed to this thread, thank you. Though I was not the one who asked the original question I learned from it being asked and then all you syntax guys going to work on it. 

Steve I saved your PDF file to have at my finger tip as I continue learning.

 

Posts 26033
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 28 2010 12:19 AM

I trust that the OP has also benefited!

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 110
Philip E. Sumpter | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 29 2010 12:40 PM

Guys, thank you so much for your feedback. My query is actually more specific than the way I originally expressed it. In other words I am strictly interested in the syntax of v. 7 only, despite the fact that v. 8 is part of the clause (by virtue of ellipsis of the predicate) and irrespective of the benefactive. For this reason, the solutions by Fred and Dave are not what I need because they include a semantic dimension - "benefactive" -  that is too restrictive.

My ultimate interest is in searching for word pairs in poetic couplets, e.g. cases in which the word "sea" occurs in one colon and "earth" appears in the other colon. The problem is twofold 1) cola relate to each other syntactically in various ways - Ps 122:7 is a typical but complex example; 2) cola and clauses are not always co-extensive. In Ps 122:7 we have 3 cola but two clauses, where the second colon - v. 7b - is syntactically part of both 7a and 8a. In other words, v.7b, which is a poetic unit is not a syntactic unit: it is interwoven with two other clauses and has no independent status. I want to create a search query in which I can discover whether my two words occur in each of the first two cola respectively (e.g. "sea" in v. 7a and "earth" in v. 7b). I have concluded that A-F simply can't do this. Kevin's solution doesn't work because it assumes that we the two clauses are next to each other, but they are not, they are interwoven.

After much sweat and bother I have in fact figured out a search query which gives me what I need, including the freedom to have the various CICs in whatever order possible and even for the two cola (the colon with the predicate and the elided colon, i.e. 7a and 7b) to appear in any order (because sometimes it is the first clause that is elided). 

I'd like to post the image here but I don't have the software to do so (I'm useless with computers). If someone tells me a good piece of software I ought to download I can copy and post the search query here.

I'll be on holiday, however, from tomorrow evening until  a week after Easter, so if you answer by tomorrow morning German time (!) I can post it before I leave

Page 1 of 2 (30 items) 1 2 Next > | RSS