New UserVoice feature to vote on: improved hyperlink color

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Posts 18758
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, May 11 2012 10:15 PM

This seems like such a tiny feature to waste a UserVoice vote on, but I've been informed that's the only way it is going to be addressed by Logos. It's so annoying and has been bugging people for so long. If you've ever been bothered by how hard it is to see hyperlinks because the dark blue is virtually indistinguishable, or if you've now got a votes to spare because some of your other feature requests have been addressed, please consider voting for this one:

Make hyperlink color more distinguishable from black and/or allow user to customize it

See how readable that hyperlink was here on the forum? Now compare that to how hard it is to see the hyperlinks in a Logos resource.

Here, play "Spot the Hyperlink":

Is that 172 actually a different color from the 135?

Here's another round. How many hyperlinks are in this excerpt? Trick question.

Answer: 3. Can you see them all?

See why this is an issue?

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 11 2012 10:38 PM

Rosie Perera:
This seems like such a tiny feature to waste a UserVoice vote on, but I've been informed that's the only way it is going to be addressed by Logos. It's so annoying and has been bugging people for so long. If you've ever been bothered by how hard it is to see hyperlinks because the dark blue is virtually indistinguishable, or if you've now got a votes to spare because some of your other feature requests have been addressed, please consider voting for this one:
It is nuts (IMHO) that we have to waste a uservoice vote on this request.

Posts 18758
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 11 2012 11:05 PM

tom collinge:

Rosie Perera:
This seems like such a tiny feature to waste a UserVoice vote on, but I've been informed that's the only way it is going to be addressed by Logos. It's so annoying and has been bugging people for so long. If you've ever been bothered by how hard it is to see hyperlinks because the dark blue is virtually indistinguishable, or if you've now got a votes to spare because some of your other feature requests have been addressed, please consider voting for this one:
It is nuts (IMHO) that we have to waste a uservoice vote on this request.

Agreed. It would probably take a Logos developer all of 2 minutes to change a color value in a table somewhere. It's probably already taken Logos employees more time interacting with me over this issue than it would have taken someone to just change, say, (0,0,128) to (11,116,255) in a color table and recompile.

And here's how it would improve the visibility of the hyperlinks:

Posts 2694
DominicM | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 11 2012 11:18 PM

even better if we could just pick a color of our choice..

Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have

Posts 1145
William | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 12 2012 4:23 AM

I think this should have been done..̣....I have moved 3 votes away from somthing else to see if this can"T be pushed up....

Posts 888
Brother Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 12 2012 5:21 AM

DominicM:

even better if we could just pick a color of our choice..

THIS is the complete solution, Dom!  Color choice for foreground, background and font in every pane of Logos.

 

"I read dead people..."

Posts 1691
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 12 2012 12:09 PM

The point of coloring hyperlinks at all is to improve discoverability. On the web this is important so that you can quickly see which text is links to other articles.

As the web has matured, though, people have developed other indicators for links -- graphical, implicit in layout (the site-logo in the upper-left taking you to the home page, for example), etc.

In Logos 3, hyperlinks were (we believe) even more of a distraction than on the web. While most web hyperlinks were set apart from your reading, or else used to indicate that a portion of the text was an anchor to another article, almost all links in Logos books are doubly-indicated: the link was shown both with color and by the semantic value of the text alone: "John 3:16" or "See JERUSALEM" are obvious links even without color.

In addition, rightly or wrongly, we'd "overtagged" abbreviations as colored links to popup glossary entries.

The result was "fruitcake" -- a screen full of many-colored links that made reading distracting.

In Logos 4 we toyed with the idea of turning off all link color. People don't scan a book looking for links the way you might scan an index of news articles on a web page looking for interesting titles. You actually read the book (usually). In an ideal world, everything you could possibly want to have behave as a link would, so discoverability would be replaced with an assumption that every reference to something off the actual page you were reading would e a useful link.

But we aren't there yet, so we settled on a subtle link color.

In the example posted here, I think my case is made. "Q" and "1st" are nearly pointless links for the reader -- they're "because we can" glossary popups. In Logos you can already double-click "portrayal" to get to a dictionary entry on that word if you don't know it. So subtle color and a changing cursor shape when you hover over "Q" -- the first action you'd take if you want to know what "Q" is -- seems like a very good indicator.

Even Bible references, when in a bright color, can be a distraction that doesn't add anything -- I think it's a safe assumption in Bible software that you can click Bible references, and that you only need to learn that once.

So that's how we got to subtle coloring...and, if/when we finish linking every bibliographic reference ("Mack 1988; Kloppenborg 1989") we'd be open to the idea of not coloring them at all, so you can focus on reading the book, not looking at fruitcake.

But maybe we're wrong -- it sounds like some of you think so! -- and we'll reconsider giving you control over hyperlink color in an upcoming release, as much as we are reluctant to add more option settings... And then we can go back to books that look like this:

 

Posts 187
James Hudson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 12 2012 12:53 PM

User customization as opposed to Company Imposition is ALWAYS the way to go for happy customers!!

 

Looking forward to clear hyperlinks!

Posts 2694
DominicM | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 12 2012 12:56 PM

Bob Pritchett:

So that's how we got to subtle coloring...and, if/when we finish linking every bibliographic reference ("Mack 1988; Kloppenborg 1989") we'd be open to the idea of not coloring them at all, so you can focus on reading the book, not looking at fruitcake.

But maybe we're wrong -- it sounds like some of you think so! -- and we'll reconsider giving you control over hyperlink color in an upcoming release, as much as we are reluctant to add more option settings... And then we can go back to books that look like this:

Cheers Bob,

Although most will opt not to change anything, it enables those who like fruit to have their selection, thank you so much for reconsidering this.

Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have

Posts 888
Brother Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 12 2012 1:04 PM

Bob,  Thanks for jumping in with that explanation which clearly articulates the reasoning behind link color choices.  However, I greatly prefer to make my own decisions with respect to link/foreground/background/font colors due to my poor vision.  If we can all choose, then those that prefer to read a book without obvious links can certainly set the color that way.  Some of us need the fruitcake, and actually like it.   Yes

 

"I read dead people..."

Posts 1649
Room4more | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 12 2012 1:16 PM

Thanks Bob.

Leave it as is. U can't please everyone all the time. NO More fruit-cake books. If it really offends them then there are other lines with less of a wait. I can recommend some if they would like.

Let's concentrate our endeavoures to not to fix want ain't broke, but fix what is broke and move forward...........

DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 12 2012 4:29 PM

Bob Pritchett:
But maybe we're wrong -- it sounds like some of you think so! -- and we'll reconsider giving you control over hyperlink color in an upcoming release, as much as we are reluctant to add more option settings...

As eyes age, being able to choose higher contrast colors is important for easy reading.  Highway signage has many high contrast color combinations, which are quick and easy to read.

For those with macular degeneration (e.g. my grandmother), being able to choose bright letters on a black background with enlarged text is vital for reading because the center of their eyes are losing ability to distinguish color and focus so need ability to read with peripheral vision, which lacks ability for subtle color detection.

Many Logos 4 panels have hard-coded a bright white background, which is hard to read by a number of Logos customers since the white background is too bright compared to information on screen.  Similar effect to trying to read a page with sunlight shining directly on the back of the page.  The bright background color effectively obscures everything else so cannot see unique shapes and twists that distinguish letters and words.

Personally dreaming of Logos with more useful color choices.  Related Logos User Voice suggestion => Allow each pane to have an individual background color

For Bible reading and study, would greatly appreciate being able to hide chapter #'s, verse #'s, pericopes, and footnotes so can look at contextual contents without distractions: possibly add options to check/uncheck under three circles like notes, community notes, and visual filters.  Same menu could have hyperlink check/uncheck option(s) OR provide a way to create visual filter(s) for hyperlinks, chapter #'s, verse #'s, pericopes, and footnotes.  Visual filter(s) would allow customer customization of colors as desired along with ability to choose when to display.

Thread => Is there a Bible with no verses, chapters or headings? includes fruitful Bible Study steps => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/12407/96883.aspx#96883 that is problematic to do in Logos since currently only one personal book bible does not have chapter and verse #'s => American Standard Version 1901 - Personal Bible without Chapter and Verse #'s

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 5159
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 2 2012 1:03 PM

James Hudson:
User customization as opposed to Company Imposition is ALWAYS the way to go for happy customers!!

Yes

Bob Pritchett:
But maybe we're wrong -- it sounds like some of you think so! -- and we'll reconsider giving you control over hyperlink color in an upcoming release, as much as we are reluctant to add more option settings...

Bob I respect why Logos wants to reduce the number of option settings, and appreciate what Logos provide us with in L4, but accessibility & visibility requirements is not something Logos should be imposing upon their customers based on Logos preferences.This is broken. Logos did this much better in L3 where users had some level of choice of what colour to set hyperlinks.  It's a very personal choice and a very personal need for some users and I believe Logos have gotten this totally wrong in taking away that choice from your users.  Basically Logos is saying to users if they have any sort of  vision impairment issues that result in their preference for clearly distinguishable coloured links, their needs don't count, Logos preferences are what counts.

Posts 808
Kevin Maples | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 4 2012 6:01 AM

tom collinge:
It is nuts (IMHO) that we have to waste a uservoice vote on this request.

What is a uservoice vote?

Posts 2964
tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 4 2012 7:37 AM

Kevin Maples:

What is a uservoice vote?

Logos has a uservoice site that allows their users to provide feedback on their products.  Each user gets 10 votes for the improvements that they would like to see.  Logos' uservoice site is www.logos.uservoice.com

Posts 808
Kevin Maples | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 4 2012 8:22 AM

tom collinge:
Logos has a uservoice site that allows their users to provide feedback on their products.

Ok, thanks. I'm still new and didn't know about this. 

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