Official: Minimum Crossgrade and free engine download are coming!
We're very sorry that the Logos 5 upgrade message hasn't been clear enough.
Logos 5 will be available at many price points, and the free engine will be available soon. But it works best with new content and resources, which are available now as great deals!
We are working to improve the web site and messaging.
- Our packages have been dramatically reconfigured. (For lots of reasons.) Our new dynamic pricing engine calculates a custom price for you to 'upgrade' to any package. If you had 'Gold' in Logos 4, you don't have to move to 'Gold' in Logos 5 -- it's just a different collection of books. You could move to Bronze or Starter or Diamond -- whatever you choose, you only pay for new content. That's the same as always, and hasn't changed.
- Because the collections changed so much, though (some are gone, others are new, ones with the same name are very different), some users are seeing "Gold to Gold" or "Platinum to Platinum" upgrade prices that seem way too high. This reflects all the new content -- data sets, books, etc. -- in the new collections. But not everyone wants/needs/can-afford a lot of new books right now.
- There will be a Minimum Crossgrade for Logos 5. It is not ready yet, and pricing has not been established, but we expect it'll be under $100. (It will use dynamic pricing as well, but will probably be the same price for most users since almost all the content will be completely new to Logos 5.)
- The Minimal Crossgrade is being configured, but we expect it will contain all/most of the unique new data sets (Timeline, Bible Facts, Clause Database, Bible Sense Lexicon, Phrases, Preaching Themes, Thematic Outlines, etc.). Some Logos 5 features only "light-up" or add value when specific books are present, and we're figuring out which ones should be included in this crossgrade.
(The Minimal Crossgrade for Logos 5 is not the same as "Gold to Gold" or a 'same level' crossgrade -- it will not add the books in "Gold 5" to an existing "Gold 4" -- just the new data sets.)
NEW, Friday, 11/9: We've been looking at the interdependence of some of the data sets, and the fact that even for original purchasers, some of the new data sets / resources are only in Gold and above. So we're planning to split the crossgrade into two levels; the smaller one will likely be under $100, and appropriate for someone with CHL, BSL, Leader's, or Scholar's, and the larger one with have the language-related resources and data sets, too, and be somewhere over $100, depending on what you already own. It will be for people who had Scholar's, Silver, Gold, etc.
- The Logos 5 software engine will be available for free download in the future. It is not available yet, but will be. Upgrading just the engine will let you use some new functionality, take advantage of the new user interface, etc. You'll get the search helps, bibliography report, and more. But features that require specific new data sets -- like the new Timeline, Bible Facts, and the Bible Sense Lexicon -- aren't included.
- Why are these not available now? 17 years ago we made a decision to sell content, not code. We did this because we didn't like how people were forced to buy upgrades to maintain access to their library when computers and operating systems changed or were upgraded. We wanted our users to be able to buy an electronic book and know that they wouldn't have to pay again to read it just because Microsoft Windows was updated.
Over the years this turned into "you only buy books, the software is free!" And that has been the case for 17 years, and still is. And for all those years we have continued to offer free updates, free phone support, and excellent customer service. And we still will.
But we pay the bills by selling new content. So when we have a major upgrade we reconfigure our bundles, create high-value collections, and hope that we can sell enough content to cover the ongoing, cost of free upgrades and free support for everyone who ever bought an ebook in our format.
You do not have to buy a level-to-level crossgrade. You do not need to buy more books. We will have a very affordable Minimal Crossgrade. We will have a free engine download. But since we have limited resources -- only so much bandwidth, servers, and (the real limit) phone-lines and people available to take calls and answer email -- we are focusing on selling those new content bundles first.
Once the phone queue slows down, and once we aren't helping people who do want to upgrade to a larger collection at a great price, we will put the Minimal Crossgrade up for sale. Then, some time after we've taken care of people who want to purchase that affordable crossgrade, we will put the free engine online, and offer the same level of free, friendly, phone or email support we've been providing for two decades -- even to people who bought one package a decade ago and have never purchased anything since.
- Yes, but when? We're not sure, but it won't be a terribly long wait -- though it may feel that way if you've watched the Logos 5 videos! I know it's hard to wait when it looks (and is!) so cool....
You'll soon be able to move to the Logos 5 engine at no cost at all. You'll even have an option for adding the coolest new data sets at a very reasonable cost.
I'm so sorry we didn't make all of this clearer right from the start, and I hope you won't be offended by our "paying the bills" focus on selling the revenue-generating upgrade bundles for just a short while before we offer the low-cost and free alternatives.
-- Bob Pritchett, President/CEO
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Thank you for the prompt, clear and comprehensive answer. We do appreciate the effort. Many of us use this software so much that our attachment is more visceral than typically experienced with software. Speaking at least for myself, any perceived negativity was because I care.
Keep up the good work
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[Y] good job, thanks Bob.
if we meet and you forget me,
you have lost nothing.
But if you meet Jesus and forget Him,
you have lost everything.
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Thanks, Bob. I hope this what the forums needed and that things settle down.
Please can you clarify one thing for me? Will all of the new features and databases be available separately?
I have Logos 4 Platinum. I would like all of the new features and databases but can't afford a major upgrade at present. Since there are a few resources that interest me, I was considering Logos 5 Silver. That would leave me without the Bible Sense Lexicon and without senses in Bible Word Study. A popup on the upgrade comparison page says that the Bible Sense Lexicon is sold separately for £12.45 GBP, but I couldn't find it for sale online. I phoned the sales team and was told that that price was only shown to make the discount calculator work and that the lexicon is not for sale separately. Is this true?
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Bob Pritchett said:
There will be a Minimum Crossgrade for Logos 5. It is not ready yet, and pricing has not been established, but we expect it'll be under $100
This is helpful. Thanks for the clear information.
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Bob and Logos -
Not that you need more advice, but I would lock this Bob's post above at the top of the forums for awhile. It might help.
Jerry
Macbook Air (2024), Apple M2, 16gb Ram, Mac Sequoia, 1TB storage
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Thanks, Bob, for the explanation. I was away from the forums for a day or so and was overwhelmed by the number of threads about the released-in-my-absence Logos 5. [:)] I don't have time right now to see what all is going on with the upgrade options (Sunday is coming!), but I'll check it out the first of the week.
Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC
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Thanks Bob: Will wait patiently as there are a couple of "issues" right now delaying my decisions on new resources and which package to get:
- no detailed listings available right now (Friday evening) of the content of the various Verbum packages - the "Compare" link which suggests you can compare detailed content of the various Verbum packages currently takes you to the general upgrade page comparing only Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum resources etc - Verbum Capstone and Verbum Master look potentially interesting, but I got a lot of my resources in the Library Builder package and it is not obvious these were considered "automatically" by the pricing algorithm.
- seems to be an issue with many of my "new to me" resources being collections I already own (perhaps because some of my collections were assembled by means other than a direct purchase from Logos of the currently listed collection containing those titles)
- The Upgrade page sorted by resources "new to you" does not "print" all the columns for all the pages, missing which are in Platinum, Diamond and Portfolio when you try to print the pages (using IE9) - doing a printout helps me check against existing resources as listed in Logos 4, given there is no access right now to "my account"
I don't expect everything to be sorted out and 100% functional the first day or two, will wait patiently for things to get ironed out ....[:)]
EDIT: Found the link to the details of the Verbum packages : http://www.logos.com/catholic#compare
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Bob Pritchett said:
- There will be a Minimum Crossgrade for Logos 5. It is not ready yet, and pricing has not been established, but we expect it'll be under $100. (It will use dynamic pricing as well,
Treating it similar to an upgrade package makes a lot of sense and I agree that it should wait until the momentum for package upgrades slows down. It creates the possibility that one can upgrade to L5 Silver AND get the Crossgrade purely for the Bible Sense Lexicon!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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[Y]
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Thanks Bob. I greatly appreciate the clarity and your responsiveness.
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Bob Pritchett said:
I'm so sorry we didn't make all of this clearer right from the start, and I hope you won't be offended by our "paying the bills" focus on selling the revenue-generating upgrade bundles for just a short while before we offer the low-cost and free alternatives.
Thank you! When I called yesterday they were able to take care of me with no issues. Glad I can support Logos.
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Thanks Bob! I need to look more closely at the content being offered.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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Jonathan Pitts said:
Please can you clarify one thing for me? Will all of the new features and databases be available separately?
...A popup on the upgrade comparison page says that the Bible Sense Lexicon is sold separately for £12.45 GBP, but I couldn't find it for sale online. I phoned the sales team and was told that that price was only shown to make the discount calculator work and that the lexicon is not for sale separately. Is this true?
Yes, it is (and it's an error on the website that will be corrected): http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58026/414094.aspx#414094
The current plan is that new data sets will only be available in base packages.
It is possible (like any decision) that this could change in the future. However, consider the data sets from Logos 4 (e.g., Biblical People, Places, Things; Syntax Search; Reverse Interlinears); these have never been available for individual purchase, but only ever as part of base packages (or the minimal crossgrade).
As Bob said, "The Minimal Crossgrade is being configured, but we expect it will contain all/most of the unique new data sets (Timeline, Bible Facts, Clause Database, Bible Sense Lexicon, Phrases, Preaching Themes, Thematic Outlines, etc.)". You may wish to wait and see what it does contain (when it is announced) before making your final decision.
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I was never worried
thanks team logos for all your efforts. God bless0 -
Here is a question I haven't been able to find an answer to by searching around.
If for instance (as I have) one owns the L4 Scholars Library, when I purchased it I had no idea about databases, and those types of resources. Does the scholars library include all the databases and so forth for L4, and if not, would those databases be included in an L5 minimal crossgrade, or would one ALSO need the L4 minimal cross grade.
What about someone who just has the bare minimal L4 library, but wants the benefits of all the L4 features and L5 features...
thanks!L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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Or Datasets, or whatever they are called...
L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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Ken Baker said:
If for instance (as I have) one owns the L4 Scholars Library, when I purchased it I had no idea about databases, and those types of resources. Does the scholars library include all the databases and so forth for L4, and if not, would those databases be included in an L5 minimal crossgrade, or would one ALSO need the L4 minimal cross grade.
You had all the extra databases and capabilities of L4 with Scholars, as far as I can recall. You didn't need to have also purchased the L4 minimum crossgrade. It would have duplicated what you had already in L4 Scholar's. You would not need it to get the L5 minimum crossgrade.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Thank you, Bradley.
That's the conclusion that I am coming to.Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:You may wish to wait and see what it does contain (when it is announced) before making your final decision.
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I have a question that I have not seen addressed. Bob (anyone) know if academic pricing status will reduce the package upgrade cost? (Platinum 4 to 5)
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Thanks for this explanation, and your gracious responses despite all the negativity. I appreciate that you take time to read the forums and address people's concerns.
Couple of quick thoughts/suggestions (totally acknowledging that you obviously know your business better than I do):
A. I think one reason that people are being negative is because this strategy of releasing first to people who are willing to upgrade their libraries, while perhaps profit-efficient in the short-run, leaves the majority of your loyal customer base feeling like we're out in the cold unless we're willing to fork over some major cash. While it's maybe profitable in the short-run, it's dampened my excitement about Logos 5 (and I'd suspect the same applies to others as well). So instead of your customer base enthusiastically telling their friends about it, they're left being frustrated. I suspect this will prove to be an unprofitable marketing strategy in the long run.
B. The line between features and resources is becoming increasingly blurry, and this is something that needs clarity brought to it. Especially considering that you probably can't expect your average user to understand the difference between a feature requiring a new data-set, a feature not requiring a new data-set, and a resource.
C. Maybe it's just psychological since people never lose their resources, but the idea that someone could go from Logos 4 Platinum to Logos 5 Starter is unappealing and understandably frustrating for folks. For someone who's invested a ton in Logos 4 Platinum to go to Logos 5 Starter feels like you're starting all over again. And on top of that, you have to trust the mysterious "upgrade customization engine" to give you a decent price when you decide to upgrade to Platinum again. If you needed to revamp your bundles for marketing purposes, that's fine, but it would have been nice if you'd have done it in a way that allows people to maintain their current status. The reality is that marketing is psychological and status matters to people.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Take it for what it's worth, and thanks again for your gracious response. Looking forward to the minimal crossgrade. Blessings!
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Bob it would still be nice if Logos 5 would run after installing it. I run Windows 7, a very widely used operating system, but am unable to use the program after downloading it and installing it. This also overwrote my copy of Logos 4, so until this issue is fixed, I will not be able to use any of the books I've spent well over $10,000 for over the years. Of course, I'll still be charged the same amount for the next several months for Logos 5 since I chose to make payments this time.
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Michael Kahler said:
Bob it would still be nice if Logos 5 would run after installing it.
Michael, how about turning on diagnostic logging and posting your log files after you try to restart Logos 5? The way to turn on logging and post logs is found in the link below:
Also, please post the logs in a new thread. Call it Logos 5 won't start or something like that.
Thanks. maybe we can help. There are also Logos developers standing by to help out with issues like yours.
(Many of us successfully use L5 in Windows 7.)
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Michael Kahler said:
Bob it would still be nice if Logos 5 would run after installing it.
Michael – First, welcome to the forums! [:)] Sorry you are having troubles [:S]
Please start a new thread in the L5 forum and post your logs. Explain your issue as clearly as possible. Have you tried starting to a blank layout?
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
Phew. Thanks.
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macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
Preacherman said:
I have a question that I have not seen addressed. Bob (anyone) know if academic pricing status will reduce the package upgrade cost? (Platinum 4 to 5)
I called sales today and asked the very same question. They told me that there is not a discount for "academic pricing" status. Thus, everyone receives the same deal. The website's upgrade calculator is the best price that Logos will offer you.
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Hey, thanks!
I wonder if the "upgrade" calculator really considers software one has purchased outside of the "base" packages? Price still is too high; have to wait for the Bob's deal I guess [:)]
Just would kind-of like to try it out now[:'(]
Blessings!
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Thanks Bon, that helps a lot!
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Thanks Mark. I did contact Logos and was routed to the technical help folks. Just wanted to post the issue so that others would be aware of it. Hopefully I will hear something soon from Logos and can get back to the business of sermon preparation and Bible study preparation.
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Hello Alabama, I am waiting for a response at this time from the technical gurus at Logos. Hope to be up and running sometime this weekend. Thanks for the input, though!
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Preacherman said:
I wonder if the "upgrade" calculator really considers software one has purchased outside of the "base" packages? Price still is too high; have to wait for the Bob's deal I guess
Yes, the upgrade calculation includes credit for resources, which were purchased outside of "base" packages.
Comparing upgrade prices with a couple friends found substantial differences. Personally pondering Portfolio upgrade.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:
The current plan is that new data sets will only be available in base packages.
According to Bob's post earlier:
Bob Pritchett said:You'll soon be able to move to the Logos 5 engine at no cost at all. You'll even have an option for adding the coolest new data sets at a very reasonable cost.
I am basing my decision of upgrading on how and what we can buy as far as data sets go. I can get 8 of the 9 data sets for a $204 upgrade, but the next step up for me to get all 9 would be $442. While I want the Bible Sense Lexicon, I doubt if it is worth the $240 difference to me. It would be nice to know if the data sets are going to be available individually or as a package. I understand that a final decision may not have been made yet on how to offer these, but it would be nice to have an idea, if someone could shed some light on this...
"It seems our problems solve themselves when we look beyond us to those truly in hell." - Beyond Our Suffering - AILD
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I understand the costs involved in upgrading. I can see the value of all the cool new resources being added and that if I were to buy them separate I would spent many times what the upgrade prices is. I can appreciate the company's views and wanting to get back their investment in time and resources building this product. I am on the fence about the upgrade. I have only one that makes any sense currently. As a Platinum 4 user, Gold or Platinum are the only viable choices. You don't have a fully functional product with less than Gold. It is missing what appears to be one data set but a sales rep informed me that it is actually missing three. So, since I get a 15 percent discount to go with Platinum and no discount on Gold, it gives me a difference in cost between the two of only 120 dollars. So, going from Platinum 4 to Platinum 5 is the only real choice. I am patient enough to wait for the 100 dollar (hypothetical number) upgrade to give me all the data sets and the new engine. However, my fear is that once I do this and find out that none of my old resources will be able to take advantage of all the new flashy whiz bang features and then say... oh, I changed my mind. I want that Platinum upgrade still. Only now, it will cost me 1000 with taxes instead of 750 to get there from here since that initial roll out discount has now expired. Honestly if that happened, I would find a way to sell out and be out the door if that happened but I would hate to stick myself into a position like that needlessly. I am not a huge fan of major changes. Sometimes it is necessary but it sure does cause you to have lumps on your head from bouncing it off the desk and bald spots from pulling hair out. :-)
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Bob, your employees are still disseminating contrary information here
Jose:
We do not plan to offer the Bible Sense Lexicon by itself: you'll need to purchase a base package/upgrade to Gold or above.
You can read more about it here: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/58208.aspx
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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So, as one who just bought this 5 months ago and am still making payments.... bummer. Any chance that I get a break or should I just stop making payments and start over with another package?
Remaining in Him (1 John 2:28), Robert
Mac Book Pro, Windows 7 Professional, iPhone 4S, iPad 1
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Robert Iversen said:
So, as one who just bought this 5 months ago and am still making payments.... bummer. Any chance that I get a break or should I just stop making payments and start over with another package?
The package you bought originally is a different package than any available now and may even be a better package for you depending on your needs (several nice resources were in the previous packages that are no longer in the new packages). Of course, if you find the current packages more to your liking, you should call sales to see what they can do for you. If it's just features and/or datasets you want, then wait for the free engine download or the minimal crossgrade.
I don't think you should stop making payments. That wouldn't be nice. [A]
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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I would like to echo Tom Geswein's post
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I have no problem with your desire to pay the bills. I have a big investment in content, and so want you to stay in business. But I think this approach will not maximize your revenue. I can't actually figure out what if anything to buy, so my wallet stays shut. A fundamental proposition is that if you want to sell something, the buyer has to understand something about what they are buying.
I use many different kinds of software from vendors like Apple, Microsoft, Adobe and on and on. I have never seen such a confusing upgrade. I cannot answer a simple question. If I want to upgrade what am I getting that is different? That seems a big mystery. Maybe it will all become clear at some point. So I will wait on the sidelines and see.
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Please does anyone know what/when is happening with the Catholic Packages?
Real shame nothing was mentioned or explained on the excellent blog.
Thanks
John
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Thanks Bob!
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john joyce said:
Please does anyone know what/when is happening with the Catholic Packages?
Real shame nothing was mentioned or explained on the excellent blog.
Thanks
John
Now site back up found a whole range of packages called Verbum. Fellow Catholics take a look!
I am very happy [:D]
John
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Verbum - Latin for Logos - Greek for Verbum - Latin for Logos - Greek for . . .
Can we throw a totally Lutheran version in the mix and call it: "WORT"
[:)]
Of course, being Lutheran, the starter version would have be called "King" and the Portfolio version "Beggar" - fitting with Lutheran theology.
"We are beggars: this is true." Luther
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And being Lutheran, I am begging for a quick release of the crossgrade. (Please?)
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Wow. Thank you for this open and honest response. Another reason why I love Logos.
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Tom Geswein said:
It would be nice to know if the data sets are going to be available individually or as a package. I understand that a final decision may not have been made yet on how to offer these, but it would be nice to have an idea, if someone could shed some light on this...
The data sets are not going to be for sale individually: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58026/414094.aspx#414094 (Please also re-read the caveats in my original post.)
The current plan is that new data sets will only be available in base packages and possibly/probably the Minimal Crossgrade; please re-read Bob's original post to see the details on that.
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Thank you for clarifying that Bradley. I'm sorry if I mis-represented you or Bob by quoting you both, but your statements appeared to be conflicting and I just wanted to clear things up...
Bob's quote about "You'll even have the option for adding the coolest new data sets at a very reasonable cost" probably meant through a minimal crossagrade, which he didn't mention in that statement.
"It seems our problems solve themselves when we look beyond us to those truly in hell." - Beyond Our Suffering - AILD
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Very helpful info. Thanks, Bob.
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Thank you for the clarification. My heart skipped a beat when I saw the price to stay within my package. This makes sense and is a great plan.
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My interest in L5 is the fix of the program bugs. I have personally built over the years an extensive library and really don't want to have to replicate and re-purchase any of it again. The packages don't do it for me at all.
Additionally I run Logos on a MacBook Air, Desktop, iPhone and iPad. I love the way Logos ties all my notes together so that when I use any of the devices a note written on one will show up at the other.
What I hope L5 will fix is the regular crashing L4 causes on my MacBook Air. The crashes happen when the L4 indexer works in the background and the code people don't seem to be able to fix this.
After all the above my question is this, will L5 use all my current content and are the Mac indexer issues fixed?
Thanks!
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