How to Save Yourself Hundreds of Dollars
The Lexham Bible Guides are set to cost
hundreds of dollars, possibly thousands, given that it costs $420 just for the
letters of Paul and $110 for Genesis at pre-pub prices. Are they worth it?
There has been good discussion of some of
the issues here: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/57188.aspx?PageIndex=1
However, I thought I would give my views,
based on the Ephesians
volume that has already shipped. The
format is likely to be the same throughout the series.
On exporting to Microsoft Word, there are remarkably
few pages of text, once the large slides and a little of the extra spacing have
been removed.
The first page is the title page and series
preface. This is followed by a two-page
introduction to the book, consisting of an overview of message, themes, genre,
composition and historical setting, plus a one-page structure of the book. The introduction is clear and well-written,
but there are no links to external sources and there is no discussion of
controversies, scholarly debate or alternative views. Therefore, it is no better than a very short
introduction in a well-written commentary.
This seems like a lost opportunity and something that might have been
expected.
The discussion of the text is broken into
sections, each covering roughly one chapter.
They each have the same format: overview, structure (extracted from the
introduction), place within the book, place within the canon, issues at a
glance and application overview. The
overview has one external link, but this is the only link to any other resource
(other than the Bible) outside of the issues at a glance. Again, there is no discussion of alternative
views or scholarly debate.
This means that the ‘issues at a glance’
section for each chapter is the only unique part of the book. Each of these sections has the same format: a
list of the issues and keywords, followed by a short paragraph or two outlining
the issue or keyword background and a few links to carefully chosen resources
that discuss the issue. The keywords
have two to four simple links each, but the issues themselves have a sentence
or two outlining the author’s view to help you to decide whether to click and
have between two and ten links each. Of
course, the links will only work if you already own the resources. The sample
pages provided are fairly typical.
There are 39 issues and 24 keywords discussed
over the six chapters, with eight of the issues relating to the armour of God,
and the first few issues include a discussion of letters (expanded since the sample
screenshot was taken), authorship and authenticity, and the letter’s destination.
The 12 dictionaries and encyclopedias that are
linked are: three IVP black dictionaries, AYBD, BDAG, BEB, EDB, EDNT, NDB, NIDNTT,
TDNT and WSNTDICT (Zodhiates). The 10 commentaries
that are linked are: Anchor Yale, BECNT, EBC (First Edition), ICC, Interpretation,
NICNT, NIVAC, PNTC, WBC and ZECNT. See http://community.logos.com/forums/t/57188.aspx?PageIndex=1
for details. This seems a likely list
for other Bible Guides.
Only the ‘issues at a
glance’ section provides information and links that you may not find in a good
short commentary. The keywords are
fairly obvious keywords and an even greater supply of links can be quickly
found by right-clicking on a word in a Bible, selecting Bible Word Study and consulting
the Lemma section. The links to
commentaries can be found by running a Passage Guide and consulting the
commentaries section. The Bible Word
Study and Passage Guide offer links to resources that the Bible Guides have not
selected and allow the user to prioritise their favourite resources. This leaves only the succinct summary of
issues as a unique selling point.
Therefore, in short, and
as stated elsewhere, these Bible Guides are helpful in summarising issues and
providing links. However, I suspect that
for most Logos users who have invested in the linked resources, it will not be
worth spending further thousands of dollars on the few succinct summaries that
these guides provide. For those with few
of the linked resources, the usefulness and worth of these guides will be even
lower. Whether the slightly cheaper Pastorum
Series will be better value is yet to be seen.
Comments
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Andrew, thank you for taking the time to review this resource for all of us.
Unfortunately in their latest site upgrade Logos removed the feature that allows people to add reviews of resources. I think your review, while not very positive from Logos' standpoint, would have been great to post there.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Andrew Baguley said:
However, I suspect that
for most Logos users who have invested in the linked resources, it will not be
worth spending further thousands of dollars on the few succinct summaries that
these guides provide.Thank you Andrew. I did not conduct a review anywhere near as thorough as yours, but I reached the same conclusion.
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This seems like a fair review. I have considered getting these resources but was dissuaded by 2 things:
1. They are very pricey
2. It seems like they mostly just present the things I can learn using the tools already in logos like Passage Guide, Bible word Study and Exegetical Guide.
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Yes, thank you Andrew. I came to the conclusion with just a cursory glance at these resources that I would not buy them at a quarter of what Logos is asking. It seems to me they do only what we all bought Logos to do in the first place, make our research easier. I have no idea how Logos can justify charging what they do. I might take them if they were free.
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Alan Charles Gielczyk said:
I might take them if they were free.
Then again, they might clutter up one's library. You are a tough sell, Alan, but my initial reaction to this set was like yours.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Mark Smith said:
but my initial reaction to this set was like yours.
That was my impression as well after looking at the Ephesians volume. Too much money for too little original content.
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John Kaess said:
This seems like a fair review. I have considered
getting these resources but was dissuaded by 2 things:1. They are very pricey
2. It seems like they mostly just present the
things I can learn using the tools already in logos like Passage Guide, Bible
word Study and Exegetical Guide.Because of the two reasons you mentioned (and the fact
that the results are not thorough enough for my taste) I was expecting Logos to
include the resources in version 5. This was the only way I could make sense of
it… as reader digest version of the tools that are already there and added to
the premium libraries (gold and above).Now that the Lexham
guides are not included, I am left scratching my head.
Because of the two reasons you mentioned I was
expecting Logos to include the resources in version 5. This was the only way I
could make sense of it. as reader digest of the tools that are already there
I will save my money
and will continue to do the work myself.0 -
Alain Maashe said:John Kaess said:
This seems like a fair review. I have considered
getting these resources but was dissuaded by 2 things:1. They are very pricey
2. It seems like they mostly just present the
things I can learn using the tools already in logos like Passage Guide, Bible
word Study and Exegetical Guide.Because of the two reasons you mentioned (and the fact
that the results are not thorough enough for my taste) I was expecting Logos to
include the resources in version 5. This was the only way I could make sense of
it… as reader digest version of the tools that are already there and added to
the premium libraries (gold and above).Now that the Lexham
guides are not included, I am left scratching my head.
Because of the two reasons you mentioned I was
expecting Logos to include the resources in version 5. This was the only way I
could make sense of it. as reader digest of the tools that are already there
I will save my money
and will continue to do the work myself.
Normal
0
false
false
false
EN-US
X-NONE
X-NONEI agree - it's like Logos 5 usurped the need for the Lexham Bible Guides. Ephesians was not badly done, its just the price doesn't reflect the content. It would be great for an entry level read through but who could afford that at thousands of dollars for the whole Protestant Bible (that's for you MJ!)
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All I will say is Ephesians was the first time I have taken advantage of the 30 day return!
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Mark Smith said:
Unfortunately in their latest site upgrade Logos removed the feature that allows people to add reviews of resources.
That must have been temporary, because I have no problem seeing them now.
Mark Smith said:I think your review, while not very positive from Logos' standpoint, would have been great to post there.
[Y]
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Andrew Baguley said:
Therefore, in short, and
as stated elsewhere, these Bible Guides are helpful in summarising issues and
providing links. However, I suspect that
for most Logos users who have invested in the linked resources, it will not be
worth spending further thousands of dollars on the few succinct summaries that
these guides provide.Thank you for what is, in my opinion, a fair and balanced review.
I personally was more than a little disappointed with the Ephesians instalment. I share your view that the content is light (particularly given the cost). I also question the philosophy of the resource. The summary of secondary material is so brief as to be of little value and the links to AYB, ICC, ZEC, etc. are of no value if one does not own the resources in question. I am guessing many, if not most, Logos customers do not own AYB or ICC (for example). It is my assumption that this series and the AYB/ICC are aimed at very different readerships.
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I completely agree with this review. I honestly like this resource for something quick and fast when I am in a hurry. The price point is what rules it out. This could possibly be one of the most expensive resources in my library and I can't say that I need it that bad.
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Thank you for
your feedback. I have no doubt that Logos Bible Software is capable of helping
you do the kind of work shown in Lexham Bible Guides. Logos Bible Software is,
among many other things, capable of saving you time. You all have different
reasons for making your purchases with us, but saving time is one reason
customers often cite. We took this value and applied it to Lexham Bible
Guides—they take saving time to a whole new level. Not only do the Lexham Bible
Guides summarize content from your library, point you to major issues you may
not be aware of, and explain various viewpoints, they save you the time you
would otherwise spend doing this work. We have professional researchers, with
graduate level degrees (PhDs and MAs), working through all the material in a
particular book to present you with what you need to know in an easy to use
format. We curate and synthesize this information for you—all to save you time.
We also include slides, professionally designed, to help you share this information
easily in an elegant format.Since we aim
to give you what you need/may want in the process, there are links to content
you may or may not own. These are meant to help you go further. However, you do not
have to own that material for the Guides to be valuable. We’re already giving
the basics of what’s covered there. If you’re writing a research paper, you
would still want to look at the original source (because that’s good research),
but if you’re using the material to preach from or glean the basics for a
Sunday school class, small group discussion, or conversation on a particular
topic, we give you everything you need to speak intelligently about the
subjects covered. We take the best of what you glean from a Bible dictionary
article and package it per literary unit. (Who said what on a debate? We have
that info for you too.)So, when
evaluating the price of Lexham Bible Guides, consider the cost of hiring a
research team to do this work for you. Consider the value of your time.
Consider the value of the knowledge base we bring to the table with each book.
Consider the expertise that is giving you time back for ministry, family, and
writing. We are here to make your job easier and I think we’re doing that for a
pretty good price.0 -
John D. Barry said:
Thank you for
your feedback. I have no doubt that Logos Bible Software is capable of helping
you do the kind of work shown in Lexham Bible Guides. Logos Bible Software is,
among many other things, capable of saving you time. You all have different
reasons for making your purchases with us, but saving time is one reason
customers often cite. We took this value and applied it to Lexham Bible
Guides—they take saving time to a whole new level. Not only do the Lexham Bible
Guides summarize content from your library, point you to major issues you may
not be aware of, and explain various viewpoints, they save you the time you
would otherwise spend doing this work. We have professional researchers, with
graduate level degrees (PhDs and MAs), working through all the material in a
particular book to present you with what you need to know in an easy to use
format. We curate and synthesize this information for you—all to save you time.
We also include slides, professionally designed, to help you share this information
easily in an elegant format.Since we aim
to give you what you need/may want in the process, there are links to content
you may or may not own. These are meant to help you go further. However, you do not
have to own that material for the Guides to be valuable. We’re already giving
the basics of what’s covered there. If you’re writing a research paper, you
would still want to look at the original source (because that’s good research),
but if you’re using the material to preach from or glean the basics for a
Sunday school class, small group discussion, or conversation on a particular
topic, we give you everything you need to speak intelligently about the
subjects covered. We take the best of what you glean from a Bible dictionary
article and package it per literary unit. (Who said what on a debate? We have
that info for you too.)So, when
evaluating the price of Lexham Bible Guides, consider the cost of hiring a
research team to do this work for you. Consider the value of your time.
Consider the value of the knowledge base we bring to the table with each book.
Consider the expertise that is giving you time back for ministry, family, and
writing. We are here to make your job easier and I think we’re doing that for a
pretty good price.And what we are saying is that the material is not worth the $$$.
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0
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John D. Barry said:
So, when
evaluating the price of Lexham Bible Guides, consider the cost of hiring a
research team to do this work for you. Consider the value of your time.
Consider the value of the knowledge base we bring to the table with each book.
Consider the expertise that is giving you time back for ministry, family, and
writing. We are here to make your job easier and I think we’re doing that for a
pretty good price.Thanks for the response, John, but does Logos really think that the first 19 Lexham Bible Guides are worth $685, covering just Genesis, Ruth, Jonah, Luke, Paul's letters and 1 Peter, when the 59 volume Word Biblical Commentary series, covering most of the Bible, is available for $699?
The two sets clearly do different things, but the research team who have worked on the Word Biblical Commentaries, the knowledge base being brought to each book and the expertise that has gone into writing them is surely not that much lower in quality than that being brought to bear in the Lexham Bible Guides, is it? The price quoted for the Lexham Bible Guides is the pre-pub price, so set to rise, and the Ephesians volume has very few pages, especially compared to the 565-pages of closely argued text of the WBC Ephesians volume with its thousands of links to the Bible, TDNT, Josephus, Philo, Dead Sea Scrolls... (though admittedly not all the works that could have been linked have been, e.g. Talmud, Mishnah, commentaries including ICC, NICNT, Calvin..., but that's another issue).
It seems that the Word Biblical Commentaries are being sold to reap their return over a much longer period. The Lexham Bible Guides would surely be more popular if they were more competitively priced, had more discussion of a scholarly nature and more links. I still think they are a good idea, but they are much lighter than I was expecting, in terms of issues covered, depth of discussion, number of links and length of the text. There is no promise of free future updates and many of the commentaries available in Logos receive no mention whatsoever. If the Pastorum series is aimed at preachers, then why are these also aimed at preachers? Personally, I would happily see the Pastorum guides and Bible guides combined into the same resource, with more issues covered, including contrasts within the introduction. There is a really useful set waiting to be published by Logos, but I'm not sure that this is yet it...
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Andrew Baguley said:
does Logos really think that the first 19 Lexham Bible Guides are worth $685, covering just Genesis, Ruth, Jonah, Luke, Paul's letters and 1 Peter, when the 59 volume Word Biblical Commentary series, covering most of the Bible, is available for $699?
(...) The price quoted for the Lexham Bible Guides is the pre-pub price, so set to rise
While the WBC, on the other hand, tends to be on sale third-party for $389-$499 several times a year (and usually in a package with loads of other books included as well).
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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John, There comes a point, when in the interest of saving time, we neglect the real purpose of Bible study.
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Dave M said:
There comes a point, when in the interest of saving time, we neglect the real purpose of Bible study.
This is a key point. It's one thing to have tools and resources to be able to study more quickly and effectively. It's another to think that a tool can do the study for us. I'm confident that no one here would express their motivation that way. But it's always good to be reminded of the risks in stark terms.
Donnie
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The initial posting was never meant to be a full review but since some have seen it that way, I thought I would add a little discussion of the actual content, contrasting the Lexham Bible Guide: Ephesians with the marginally more expensive An
Exegetical Summary of Ephesians, as they both attempt to summarise all
the relevant literature on each passage. (Note that the Exegetical Summaries are much cheaper
as part of a set.)Choosing Ephesians 3 as suitably distanced from the beginning and
end of the book, I found that there were three issues and two words discussed
in the Bible Guide. The first issue was
Paul’s Stewardship in 3:2. Five views were
noted after a 136 word summary of the issue.
Arnold (ZECNT) thinks it references Paul as a minister of God’s eternal
plan; Barth (Anchor) as a minister specifically to the Gentiles; O’Brien (PNTC)
as a minister “specially privileged” to preach and know the gospel; Snodgrass
(NIVAC) as a steward of God’s grace, as an apostle with a responsibility to
preach; and Thielman (BECNT) as a minister of the gospel. Little more information was given regarding each
view, other than a single sentence reason as to why each view was held.In contrast, the Exegetical Summary listed
19 different translation choices and addressed 17 different questions just
within Ephesians 3:1-4,
as well as discussing differences in the discourse units chosen by different
interpreters. So, for example, under
3:2, there were four lexical discussions, including 13 possible different
translations of oikonomia (stewardship),
referencing 21 different Bible versions and commentaries where these
appear. There were also four questions addressed
within this verse, including how to understand this stewardship. There were 10 different views given, each
referenced to at least one commentary (and up to five commentaries) that
preferred that view.Comparing the other issues covered in the Bible Guide, there were
similar results. However, most of the
commentaries covered by the Bible Guide were not covered by the Exegetical
Summary. Where there was overlap, such
as in the Anchor series and WBC, the summaries given in the two resources were
really quite different. As summaries
each was necessarily extracting a reasonably subjective snippet from each
commentary, but it was still surprising how little one summary could be recognized
from its counterpart.Clearly the Exegetical Summary series is more detailed and more
technical. The advantage of the Bible
Guide is that it is very clear, addressing a very small number of carefully
selected issues and views on these issues, each mostly summarized by a single
sentence. This is bound to lead to
claims of over-simplifying and subjectivity, both of which have a ring of truth
about them, but for anyone who wants clear simplicity regarding a few selective
issues, the Bible Guides may have a use.
Logos has not linked the passages in the Exegetical Summaries series to
the commentaries and translations discussed (this would be a mammoth
undertaking), as they have with the Bible Guide, but links only work when
the linked resources are already owned. I'm not
convinced that a fair summary of a technical commentary’s view can always be adequately
described in just one or two sentences, so for me the Bible Guides are pointers
into deeper study. However, this means that to
get the most from them, the reader will have to have paid for a lot of
resources and be willing to pay a lot more for the Bible Guides, as well as
being able to understand the more technical commentaries where the real
discussion takes place. I appreciate the
clarity of the guides, but remain unconvinced that they are worth the hundreds
of dollars being asked. Hopefully this comparison
will help you to decide whether you agree.0 -
fgh said:Mark Smith said:
Unfortunately in their latest site upgrade Logos removed the feature that allows people to add reviews of resources.
That must have been temporary, because I have no problem seeing them now.
Mark Smith said:I think your review, while not very positive from Logos' standpoint, would have been great to post there.
Thanks for the encouragement. After my third post, I thought I'd try to combine the three posts into a single review and post it as suggested. However, the review was nearly 10,000 characters long, so when I pasted it into the review box, it was over 9000 characters too long. Apparently, Logos really only wants very short summary reviews, [:(] so I added a link back to here.
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Although the body of your post is limited to the Lexham Bible Guides, the title suggests an openness to other methods of saving hundreds on Logos...
So far, I'm saving hundreds on an upgrade to L5 by waiting for the free version in 1Q13.
But I'm thinking there may be a more cost effective way to upgrade to the full features of L5 than merely exercising the crossgrade option. I have the original L4 Platinum package + many add-ons (including all the classic commentaries so far). The $600+ Platinum upgrade & $500+ Gold upgrades are out of reach.
I'm pastor of a tiny church with no separate book budget (my $1200 professional expense allowance has to accommodate ALL prof. expenses, including a probable laptop upgrade next year). Any thoughts on the most cost effective / least cost methods to arrive at on L5 with or without some new package?
Grace & Peace,
Bill
MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
iPad 9th Gen iOS 15.6, 256GB0 -
Bill, would the Minimal Crossgrade meet your needs and be within budget? For somewhere around $150 you'd get pretty much all the functionality and datasets that power L5.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Jack Caviness said:
Just walked through Ephesians. I like it. But...
You need a HUGE investment in resources to support this resource and the price point for the series is eye watering.
It's a pity because if this was more economical or bundled in a package, it would be a killer resource as your library grows. In fact, I would suggest that this series could encourage users to buy commentaries that they might not consider otherwise. (Pillar, BECNT, NIVAC, ICC, WBC, AB & NICNT)
In the meantime, I'll stick to a bit of work using Logos tools and resources such as Exegetical Summaries.
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Thanks for this post, Andrew. I had concluded that the guides weren't worth the money, and therefore never placed an order for them. I'm glad to hear that was the right decision and I didn't miss out on a pre-pub bargain. If Logos is still listening, I would have considered buying these at $10 each. I would certainly have bought them at $5 each.
At the price you're asking for Genesis ($110 on prepub), I would expect the Lexham Bible Guide, plus two or three of the other commentaries it links to.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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BillS said:
So far, I'm saving hundreds on an upgrade to L5 by waiting for the free version in 1Q13.
But I'm thinking there may be a more cost effective way to upgrade to the full features of L5 than merely exercising the crossgrade option. I have the original L4 Platinum package + many add-ons (including all the classic commentaries so far). The $600+ Platinum upgrade & $500+ Gold upgrades are out of reach.
Bill, I had the same pkg and options that you have. L5 Platinum is not as attractive as L4 Platinum was.
I knew that I wanted to at least get the L5 Gold in order to get full L5 functions.
I felt that the Platinum was worth the difference in price over the Gold. There were enough new resources of interest to me in the Platinum to help me justify the $600 upgrade price. In addition to gaining the full functionality of L5, I gained about 450 new titles for about $1 each, after considering that the Minimal Crossgrade to get full functionality would have been $159.95. The Exposition of Prayer was one of the key sets that helped me make my decision.
I have had L5 for 2 weeks now and highly recommend it. The additional features are excellent.
The Mark Barnes video covering the 20 major new features is a great presentation.
If you cannot swing the base pkg upgrade, I would recommend the MC as well worth the $159.95 to get all the functions of L5.
BTW--I'm a Sunday School teacher. After upgrading, I recommended to our church board that we do the same for our pastor. They not only agreed to the L5 Platinum upgrade, but added some extra funds so he could add the IVP Essential Collection and some other resources. I wish more churches could/would take care of their pastor's library expenses like that.
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John D. Barry said:
So, when
evaluating the price of Lexham Bible Guides, consider the cost of hiring a
research team to do this work for you.John I really appreciate the thought and effort that has gone into this but we already have a research team. It's called Logos Bible Software. It does the grunt work of finding potential resources of value, retrieves them from out libraries and opens them up to the correct page. This then allows us to focus on what we love, digging into the word, considering different opinions and views on the passage / topic of interest, praying through it and seeking the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
We are like kids in a candy store, we much rather walk the isle and choose what we want than received a pre-packed selection.
To really catch on these guides need to have a much lower price point. At the current price point when we look at what we have already invested in our current research team, hiring more research assistance at this price point just doesn't give us enough bang for our buck.
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Mark Barnes said:
Thanks for this post, Andrew. I had concluded that the guides weren't worth the money, and therefore never placed an order for them. I'm glad to hear that was the right decision and I didn't miss out on a pre-pub bargain. If Logos is still listening, I would have considered buying these at $10 each. I would certainly have bought them at $5 each.
At the price you're asking for Genesis ($110 on prepub), I would expect the Lexham Bible Guide, plus two or three of the other commentaries it links to.
Exactly.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Logos also benefits from pointing users (of these LBGs) repeatedly to other (locked) Logos resources. The thinking is that some users, sooner or later, will go ahead and purchase some of the items. The links to locked resources thus serve as free advertising for Logos. From a Logos sales perspective, it makes a lot of sense.
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Paul Strickert said:
Exactly.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Logos also benefits from pointing users (of these LBGs) repeatedly to other (locked) Logos resources. The thinking is that some users, sooner or later, will go ahead and purchase some of the items. The links to locked resources thus serve as free advertising for Logos. From a Logos sales perspective, it makes a lot of sense.
I too think this is the best way to use these resources.
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tom said:
I too think this is the best way to use these resources.
I have wondered that if Logos would practically give these away that the resulting sales of people purchasing unlocks would pay for the production of these resources.
Anyhow, this is going to be interesting to see how these do or do not take off at their current price point.
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It looks to me like these are the resources with the most discussion on their price. I would like to have these guides but as mentioned earlier, I finally decided to cancel my pre-pubs and request a refund for the Ephesians Guide, the first time in 15 years. I really hope Logos revisits the pricing of these resources.
Armin
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This may be worth a new thread, but I thought I'd take a quick look at an Old Testament Lexham Bible Guide, to see how it compared. It appears that the guide to Genesis 1-11 is actually quite different.
As many of the linked commentaries to the Ephesians guide are in 'New Testament only' commentary series, I wondered what commentaries might be linked for the Old Testament. There is quite a range:
Anchor, Calvin, Cassuto,
CCS, Cornerstone, Dillman, EBC, ICC, Interpretation, ITC, JPSTC, NAC, NICOT,
NIVAC, PTW, Pulpit Commentary, TOTC, Two Horizons, T&T Clark Study Guides,
Waltke, WBCPlus various commentaries on Romans for entries
on Original SinHowever, unlike the Ephesians Guide, there is a plethora of other linked books. See the massive list of dictionaries, theologies, ancient texts and other books at the end of this post (covering just Genesis 1-7).
It's a highly diverse list of resources, including pre-pubs, Vyrso resources and many that are not even in the new Portfolio collection. (Admittedly some of the links don't seem to work - some of the Kidner (TOTC) links don't work even though I have purchased this resource, and the links to Calvin's Commentary on Genesis don't work because I bought Calvin's Commentary as part of a different series.)
With this many resources, the links can be really helpful for anyone who owns all of these resources. You would have to know your way around them really well to find your answers that quickly. With many of these resources, it is not as easy as just looking up the obvious passage in a commentary, as it would be with the Ephesians guide. This guide really does look like it has been much better thought out. Whether this only applies to the Genesis 1-11 volume because it contains so many controversial issues that have had so much ink spilt on them is hard to say. This especially applies to the wealth of links in the introduction, as the Ephesians volume had virtually no links in the introduction.
A downside that applies even more with this many linked resources is that there is no clue as to where some of the links go. Many are not clearly flagged. Some are internal (links within the guide itself), some are external (links to other resources), some are to purchased resources, some are to not-yet-purchased resources (and sadly some of the 'you don't own this, but you could' links don't work). It's hard to tell before you click, especially as many are just to definitions of words. This is really useful, but "Source Critics" links to an internal definition in most places but, in at least one place, it links to Genesis 2:25-3:34 in the Anchor Commentary, which presumably displays an example of source criticism.
In short, this Guide is better than the Ephesians guide. It really does seem to represent worthwhile scholarly work. Of course, the others in the series may not be as full and, with Genesis 12-50 costing $95 in pre-pub, I may never find out, as they still seem to be massively over-priced.
The question of how the links were chosen also applies to the Pastorum Series (http://community.logos.com/forums/p/62261/440014.aspx#440014), and it would be good to have an answer. If anyone has time to check out just how well chosen the links are, then that would help to answer just how worthwhile these guides actually are. After all, at a (much?) reduced price, the series may yet prove quite useful.
Linked Resources from just Genesis 1-7
Recent
biblical and theological dictionary entriesDictionary
of Biblical ImageryDictionary
of Deities and Demons in the BibleDictionary
of the Old Testament: PentateuchDictionary of Theological Terms
Eerdmans
Dictionary of the BibleEnhanced
Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English LexiconEvangelical
Dictionary of Theology: Second EditionHALOT
Lexham
Bible DictionaryNew
Dictionary of Biblical TheologyNew
International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology and ExegesisThe Anchor
Yale Bible DictionaryThe
Complete Word Study Dictionary: Old TestamentThe
Encyclopedia of Christianity, Volumes 1–3The
International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, RevisedThe New
Bible Dictionary, Third EditionThe Oxford
Dictionary of the Christian ChurchThe Zondervan
Encyclopedia of the BibleTheological
Lexicon of the Old TestamentTheological
Wordbook of the Old TestamentZondervan
Illustrated Bible Backgrounds CommentaryAncient
TextsAncient
Egyptian LiteratureAncient
Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old TestamentContext of
ScriptureThe Old
Testament PseudepigraphaTheologies
Berkhof,
Systematic TheologyCalvin’s
InstitutesGoldingay,
Old Testament Theology, Volume 1: Israel’s GospelGrudem,
Systematic Theology: An Introduction to Bible DoctrineHenry, God,
Revelation and AuthorityOther
A Biblical
Case for an Old EarthA Matter of
Days: Resolving a Creation ControversyA Survey of
Old Testament IntroductionA Survey of
the Old TestamentA Walk in
the Garden: Biblical, Iconographical and Literary Images of EdenAncient
Near Eastern Thought and the Old Testament: Introducing the Conceptual World of
the Hebrew BibleAnthropology
in Theological PerspectiveCreation
and Blessing: A Guide to the Study and Exposition of GenesisCreation
and Chaos in the Primeval Era and the EschatonFaithlife
Study BibleGenesis for
Today: The Relevance of the Creation/Evolution Debate to Today’s SocietyGod of the
Possible: A Biblical Introduction to the Open View of GodGod’s
Lesser Glory: The Diminished God of Open TheismJBL
Knowing the
Truth about Creation: How It Happened and What It Means for UsMere
Creation: Science, Faith & Intelligent DesignMore Than a
Theory: Revealing a Testable Model for Creation (Gathering Interest)Prolegomena
to the History of Israel (Wellhausen)Science and
Faith: Friends or Foes?Seven Days
that Divide the World: The Beginning according to Genesis and ScienceSix Day
Creation: Does It Matter What You Believe?The
Evolution ControversyThe Genesis Record
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Andrew Baguley said:
This may be worth a new thread, but I thought I'd take a quick look at an Old Testament Lexham Bible Guide, to see how it compared. It appears that the guide to Genesis 1-11 is actually quite different.
Peace, Andrew! Your hard labours of investigation for your Forums Brothers and Sisters is much-appreciated indeed! *smile* I find the work that Logos has done here quite fascinating, although right now I'm not into the market for this particular product.
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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I am one of the Logos users who falls down more on the academic side than theological side. I own a good number of the resources listed above. I spent about 20 minutes looking through chapters 1-3 (I'm working on a book on chapter 1) and decided there wasn't enough depth to justify the money. I was surprised not to see more references, in those chapters, given the massive amounts of specialized study, commentary, parallel texts, etc. that are out there.
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
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Ben said:
I was surprised not to see more references, in those chapters, given the massive amounts of specialized study, commentary, parallel texts, etc. that are out there.
It's clear that different users have differing expectations for this series. Were you hoping for: a wider range of linked resources? More links per issue, like the Exegetical Summaries series? More issues to be discussed (also like the Exegetical Summaries series)? Something else?
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Andrew Baguley said:Ben said:
I was surprised not to see more references, in those chapters, given the massive amounts of specialized study, commentary, parallel texts, etc. that are out there.
It's clear that different users have differing expectations for this series. Were you hoping for: a wider range of linked resources? More links per issue, like the Exegetical Summaries series? More issues to be discussed (also like the Exegetical Summaries series)? Something else?
Andrew
To be honest I would prefer the SIL series "A Semantic and Structural Analysis" http://www.ethnologue.com/show_catalog.asp?by=ser&name=SSA.
The only way the guides work for me is if I shell out close to 2,000.00 or more for resources, that's not acceptable to make a resource just function, sorry.
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I wouldn't be against the SSA series being made available in Logos, but the Lexham Bible Guides clearly serve a different purpose. I've tried to put forward a more positive proposal concerning the guides, dealing with most of the criticisms above, here: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/63694/447500.aspx.
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Thanks for the link and input- a greater commitment, and maybe sell this as a set- with pr-orders it is bound to offset their current cost- making it more attractive, plus expanding some of the linked resources and features.
Though still basic in nature with a little work this could be a resource that could be user expanded to their individual needs, and desires.
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Any thoughts on the spreadsheet/graphing suggestion in the Still Dreaming section of http://community.logos.com/forums/p/63694/447500.aspx? I'm guessing it's largely lost within such a long post...
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Dear John
Of course one would not consider paying a research team to do individual research! That would be like employing Don Carson to write me a private commentary. The point of buying a commentary or purchasing resources such as Logos offer is to enable a wide number of people to benefit from research done by scholars. With all due respect justifying a high price by comparing it with employing private researchers is simply daft! We expect Christian publishers to exercise Christian integrity.
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Peace and Blessing to you, Andrew! *smile*Andrew McDonald said:Dear John
Of course one would not consider paying a research team to do individual research! That would be like employing Don Carson to write me a private commentary. The point of buying a commentary or purchasing resources such as Logos offer is to enable a wide number of people to benefit from research done by scholars. With all due respect justifying a high price by comparing it with employing private researchers is simply daft! We expect Christian publishers to exercise Christian integrity.
I notice on this lovely morning that this is your first post; so I would like to welcome you to the Logos Forums where Logos Bible Software users from around the world attempt to help and support and enlighten one another ....... It would be great if you feel truly welcome and "accepted" here on these Logos Forums ..............
I also notice that you are replying to an extremely old thread. If you desire to continue, you have many options of course! *smile*
One - just leave everything as it is .......
or
Two - write a new post (re-writing what you are desiring to share with your brothers and sisters and start a new post in the appropriate forum ...
or
Three - whatever! *smile*
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Being a self-appointed forum policeman is just as bad as what you are accusing him of- and he didn't say anything that was objectionable.
Or, will you chastise me now for not living on the forum and having hundreds of posts?
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Stuart A Weber said:
Being a self-appointed forum policeman is just as bad as what you are accusing him of- and he didn't say anything that was objectionable.
Or, will you chastise me now for not living on the forum and having hundreds of posts?
Stuart, I'm confused as to what you mean by your post. After reading it I re-read this entire thread and could not see anyone who could be described as being "a self-appointed forum policeman".
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Stuart, it seems that you were replying to Milford's post right before yours? From my experience reading Milford's posts on this forum, I can affirm that you totally misunderstood his intention. I'm pretty sure he didn't mean to chastise anyone, especially a first time poster; rather, he was being welcoming more than anything else. And while his post may have come across somewhat different to you; please rest assured: Milford is probably one of the nicest people who spend time on the forum with the selfless intention of helping out. Not a self appointed police or anything like that. Cheers! [:)]Stuart A Weber said:Being a self-appointed forum policeman is just as bad as what you are accusing him of- and he didn't say anything that was objectionable.
Or, will you chastise me now for not living on the forum and having hundreds of posts?
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I must say I am so glad I ran into this thread. Although, it's a year or two old but I believe the input and reviews here really just "amplified" what I was thinking after reviewing the Lexham Bible Guides Paul's letter.
First, let me say that I have 3,500 resources. While many may think that's a little or a lot it's all relative.
However, the resources I have are a tremendous help to me! Some, not so much!When I first got this volume I was extremely excited because I'm currently studying 2 Timothy and cross referencing over to 2 Corin. all a part of my inductive study.
Upon using it for 2 days (2 Tim. and 2 Cor.) I found that everything "offered" I have already done on my own using my own resources. The key words in each chapter are obvious, the summary was obvious, etc. If you sat down, outline the entire chapter, you will end up with the same summary, almost.
The great thing about the inductive study is that it shows you how to study the word for yourself without any help from commentaries, just only you and the Holy Spirit. It includes cross references, word studies, a concordance, exegetical study, etc. Which all of these are also included in the Lexham Bible guides. If you are already doing this on your own, you don't need the Lexham Bible guide but if you're still new to studying the word and need guidance, then it's for you. I will be returning this volume. Such a bummer because I expected more.0
