How to Save Yourself Hundreds of Dollars
The Lexham Bible Guides are set to cost
hundreds of dollars, possibly thousands, given that it costs $420 just for the
letters of Paul and $110 for Genesis at pre-pub prices. Are they worth it?
There has been good discussion of some of
the issues here: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/57188.aspx?PageIndex=1
However, I thought I would give my views,
based on the Ephesians
volume that has already shipped. The
format is likely to be the same throughout the series.
On exporting to Microsoft Word, there are remarkably
few pages of text, once the large slides and a little of the extra spacing have
been removed.
The first page is the title page and series
preface. This is followed by a two-page
introduction to the book, consisting of an overview of message, themes, genre,
composition and historical setting, plus a one-page structure of the book. The introduction is clear and well-written,
but there are no links to external sources and there is no discussion of
controversies, scholarly debate or alternative views. Therefore, it is no better than a very short
introduction in a well-written commentary.
This seems like a lost opportunity and something that might have been
expected.
The discussion of the text is broken into
sections, each covering roughly one chapter.
They each have the same format: overview, structure (extracted from the
introduction), place within the book, place within the canon, issues at a
glance and application overview. The
overview has one external link, but this is the only link to any other resource
(other than the Bible) outside of the issues at a glance. Again, there is no discussion of alternative
views or scholarly debate.
This means that the ‘issues at a glance’
section for each chapter is the only unique part of the book. Each of these sections has the same format: a
list of the issues and keywords, followed by a short paragraph or two outlining
the issue or keyword background and a few links to carefully chosen resources
that discuss the issue. The keywords
have two to four simple links each, but the issues themselves have a sentence
or two outlining the author’s view to help you to decide whether to click and
have between two and ten links each. Of
course, the links will only work if you already own the resources. The sample
pages provided are fairly typical.
There are 39 issues and 24 keywords discussed
over the six chapters, with eight of the issues relating to the armour of God,
and the first few issues include a discussion of letters (expanded since the sample
screenshot was taken), authorship and authenticity, and the letter’s destination.
The 12 dictionaries and encyclopedias that are
linked are: three IVP black dictionaries, AYBD, BDAG, BEB, EDB, EDNT, NDB, NIDNTT,
TDNT and WSNTDICT (Zodhiates). The 10 commentaries
that are linked are: Anchor Yale, BECNT, EBC (First Edition), ICC, Interpretation,
NICNT, NIVAC, PNTC, WBC and ZECNT. See http://community.logos.com/forums/t/57188.aspx?PageIndex=1
for details. This seems a likely list
for other Bible Guides.
Only the ‘issues at a
glance’ section provides information and links that you may not find in a good
short commentary. The keywords are
fairly obvious keywords and an even greater supply of links can be quickly
found by right-clicking on a word in a Bible, selecting Bible Word Study and consulting
the Lemma section. The links to
commentaries can be found by running a Passage Guide and consulting the
commentaries section. The Bible Word
Study and Passage Guide offer links to resources that the Bible Guides have not
selected and allow the user to prioritise their favourite resources. This leaves only the succinct summary of
issues as a unique selling point.
Therefore, in short, and
as stated elsewhere, these Bible Guides are helpful in summarising issues and
providing links. However, I suspect that
for most Logos users who have invested in the linked resources, it will not be
worth spending further thousands of dollars on the few succinct summaries that
these guides provide. For those with few
of the linked resources, the usefulness and worth of these guides will be even
lower. Whether the slightly cheaper Pastorum
Series will be better value is yet to be seen.
Comments
However, I suspect that
for most Logos users who have invested in the linked resources, it will not be
worth spending further thousands of dollars on the few succinct summaries that
these guides provide.
Thank you Andrew. I did not conduct a review anywhere near as thorough as yours, but I reached the same conclusion.
Yes, thank you Andrew. I came to the conclusion with just a cursory glance at these resources that I would not buy them at a quarter of what Logos is asking. It seems to me they do only what we all bought Logos to do in the first place, make our research easier. I have no idea how Logos can justify charging what they do. I might take them if they were free.
but my initial reaction to this set was like yours.
That was my impression as well after looking at the Ephesians volume. Too much money for too little original content.
This seems like a fair review. I have considered getting these resources but was dissuaded by 2 things:
1. They are very pricey
2. It seems like they mostly just present the things I can learn using the tools already in logos like Passage Guide, Bible word Study and Exegetical Guide.
This seems like a fair review. I have considered
getting these resources but was dissuaded by 2 things:1. They are very pricey
2. It seems like they mostly just present the
things I can learn using the tools already in logos like Passage Guide, Bible
word Study and Exegetical Guide.
Because of the two reasons you mentioned (and the fact
that the results are not thorough enough for my taste) I was expecting Logos to
include the resources in version 5. This was the only way I could make sense of
it… as reader digest version of the tools that are already there and added to
the premium libraries (gold and above).
Now that the Lexham
guides are not included, I am left scratching my head.
Because of the two reasons you mentioned I was
expecting Logos to include the resources in version 5. This was the only way I
could make sense of it. as reader digest of the tools that are already there
I will save my money
and will continue to do the work myself.
This seems like a fair review. I have considered
getting these resources but was dissuaded by 2 things:1. They are very pricey
2. It seems like they mostly just present the
things I can learn using the tools already in logos like Passage Guide, Bible
word Study and Exegetical Guide.Because of the two reasons you mentioned (and the fact
that the results are not thorough enough for my taste) I was expecting Logos to
include the resources in version 5. This was the only way I could make sense of
it… as reader digest version of the tools that are already there and added to
the premium libraries (gold and above).Now that the Lexham
guides are not included, I am left scratching my head.
Because of the two reasons you mentioned I was
expecting Logos to include the resources in version 5. This was the only way I
could make sense of it. as reader digest of the tools that are already there
I will save my money
and will continue to do the work myself.
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I agree - it's like Logos 5 usurped the need for the Lexham Bible Guides. Ephesians was not badly done, its just the price doesn't reflect the content. It would be great for an entry level read through but who could afford that at thousands of dollars for the whole Protestant Bible (that's for you MJ!)
All I will say is Ephesians was the first time I have taken advantage of the 30 day return!
Therefore, in short, and
as stated elsewhere, these Bible Guides are helpful in summarising issues and
providing links. However, I suspect that
for most Logos users who have invested in the linked resources, it will not be
worth spending further thousands of dollars on the few succinct summaries that
these guides provide.
Thank you for what is, in my opinion, a fair and balanced review.
I personally was more than a little disappointed with the Ephesians instalment. I share your view that the content is light (particularly given the cost). I also question the philosophy of the resource. The summary of secondary material is so brief as to be of little value and the links to AYB, ICC, ZEC, etc. are of no value if one does not own the resources in question. I am guessing many, if not most, Logos customers do not own AYB or ICC (for example). It is my assumption that this series and the AYB/ICC are aimed at very different readerships.
Thank you for
your feedback. I have no doubt that Logos Bible Software is capable of helping
you do the kind of work shown in Lexham Bible Guides. Logos Bible Software is,
among many other things, capable of saving you time. You all have different
reasons for making your purchases with us, but saving time is one reason
customers often cite. We took this value and applied it to Lexham Bible
Guides—they take saving time to a whole new level. Not only do the Lexham Bible
Guides summarize content from your library, point you to major issues you may
not be aware of, and explain various viewpoints, they save you the time you
would otherwise spend doing this work. We have professional researchers, with
graduate level degrees (PhDs and MAs), working through all the material in a
particular book to present you with what you need to know in an easy to use
format. We curate and synthesize this information for you—all to save you time.
We also include slides, professionally designed, to help you share this information
easily in an elegant format.
Since we aim
to give you what you need/may want in the process, there are links to content
you may or may not own. These are meant to help you go further. However, you do not
have to own that material for the Guides to be valuable. We’re already giving
the basics of what’s covered there. If you’re writing a research paper, you
would still want to look at the original source (because that’s good research),
but if you’re using the material to preach from or glean the basics for a
Sunday school class, small group discussion, or conversation on a particular
topic, we give you everything you need to speak intelligently about the
subjects covered. We take the best of what you glean from a Bible dictionary
article and package it per literary unit. (Who said what on a debate? We have
that info for you too.)
So, when
evaluating the price of Lexham Bible Guides, consider the cost of hiring a
research team to do this work for you. Consider the value of your time.
Consider the value of the knowledge base we bring to the table with each book.
Consider the expertise that is giving you time back for ministry, family, and
writing. We are here to make your job easier and I think we’re doing that for a
pretty good price.
Thank you for
your feedback. I have no doubt that Logos Bible Software is capable of helping
you do the kind of work shown in Lexham Bible Guides. Logos Bible Software is,
among many other things, capable of saving you time. You all have different
reasons for making your purchases with us, but saving time is one reason
customers often cite. We took this value and applied it to Lexham Bible
Guides—they take saving time to a whole new level. Not only do the Lexham Bible
Guides summarize content from your library, point you to major issues you may
not be aware of, and explain various viewpoints, they save you the time you
would otherwise spend doing this work. We have professional researchers, with
graduate level degrees (PhDs and MAs), working through all the material in a
particular book to present you with what you need to know in an easy to use
format. We curate and synthesize this information for you—all to save you time.
We also include slides, professionally designed, to help you share this information
easily in an elegant format.
Since we aim
to give you what you need/may want in the process, there are links to content
you may or may not own. These are meant to help you go further. However, you do not
have to own that material for the Guides to be valuable. We’re already giving
the basics of what’s covered there. If you’re writing a research paper, you
would still want to look at the original source (because that’s good research),
but if you’re using the material to preach from or glean the basics for a
Sunday school class, small group discussion, or conversation on a particular
topic, we give you everything you need to speak intelligently about the
subjects covered. We take the best of what you glean from a Bible dictionary
article and package it per literary unit. (Who said what on a debate? We have
that info for you too.)
So, when
evaluating the price of Lexham Bible Guides, consider the cost of hiring a
research team to do this work for you. Consider the value of your time.
Consider the value of the knowledge base we bring to the table with each book.
Consider the expertise that is giving you time back for ministry, family, and
writing. We are here to make your job easier and I think we’re doing that for a
pretty good price.
And what we are saying is that the material is not worth the $$$.
So, when
evaluating the price of Lexham Bible Guides, consider the cost of hiring a
research team to do this work for you. Consider the value of your time.
Consider the value of the knowledge base we bring to the table with each book.
Consider the expertise that is giving you time back for ministry, family, and
writing. We are here to make your job easier and I think we’re doing that for a
pretty good price.
Thanks for the response, John, but does Logos really think that the first 19 Lexham Bible Guides are worth $685, covering just Genesis, Ruth, Jonah, Luke, Paul's letters and 1 Peter, when the 59 volume Word Biblical Commentary series, covering most of the Bible, is available for $699?
The two sets clearly do different things, but the research team who have worked on the Word Biblical Commentaries, the knowledge base being brought to each book and the expertise that has gone into writing them is surely not that much lower in quality than that being brought to bear in the Lexham Bible Guides, is it? The price quoted for the Lexham Bible Guides is the pre-pub price, so set to rise, and the Ephesians volume has very few pages, especially compared to the 565-pages of closely argued text of the WBC Ephesians volume with its thousands of links to the Bible, TDNT, Josephus, Philo, Dead Sea Scrolls... (though admittedly not all the works that could have been linked have been, e.g. Talmud, Mishnah, commentaries including ICC, NICNT, Calvin..., but that's another issue).
It seems that the Word Biblical Commentaries are being sold to reap their return over a much longer period. The Lexham Bible Guides would surely be more popular if they were more competitively priced, had more discussion of a scholarly nature and more links. I still think they are a good idea, but they are much lighter than I was expecting, in terms of issues covered, depth of discussion, number of links and length of the text. There is no promise of free future updates and many of the commentaries available in Logos receive no mention whatsoever. If the Pastorum series is aimed at preachers, then why are these also aimed at preachers? Personally, I would happily see the Pastorum guides and Bible guides combined into the same resource, with more issues covered, including contrasts within the introduction. There is a really useful set waiting to be published by Logos, but I'm not sure that this is yet it...
John, There comes a point, when in the interest of saving time, we neglect the real purpose of Bible study.
Although the body of your post is limited to the Lexham Bible Guides, the title suggests an openness to other methods of saving hundreds on Logos...
So far, I'm saving hundreds on an upgrade to L5 by waiting for the free version in 1Q13.
But I'm thinking there may be a more cost effective way to upgrade to the full features of L5 than merely exercising the crossgrade option. I have the original L4 Platinum package + many add-ons (including all the classic commentaries so far). The $600+ Platinum upgrade & $500+ Gold upgrades are out of reach.
I'm pastor of a tiny church with no separate book budget (my $1200 professional expense allowance has to accommodate ALL prof. expenses, including a probable laptop upgrade next year). Any thoughts on the most cost effective / least cost methods to arrive at on L5 with or without some new package?
Grace & Peace,
Bill
MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
iPad 9th Gen iOS 15.6, 256GB
So far, I'm saving hundreds on an upgrade to L5 by waiting for the free version in 1Q13.
But I'm thinking there may be a more cost effective way to upgrade to the full features of L5 than merely exercising the crossgrade option. I have the original L4 Platinum package + many add-ons (including all the classic commentaries so far). The $600+ Platinum upgrade & $500+ Gold upgrades are out of reach.
Bill, I had the same pkg and options that you have. L5 Platinum is not as attractive as L4 Platinum was.
I knew that I wanted to at least get the L5 Gold in order to get full L5 functions.
I felt that the Platinum was worth the difference in price over the Gold. There were enough new resources of interest to me in the Platinum to help me justify the $600 upgrade price. In addition to gaining the full functionality of L5, I gained about 450 new titles for about $1 each, after considering that the Minimal Crossgrade to get full functionality would have been $159.95. The Exposition of Prayer was one of the key sets that helped me make my decision.
I have had L5 for 2 weeks now and highly recommend it. The additional features are excellent.
The Mark Barnes video covering the 20 major new features is a great presentation.
If you cannot swing the base pkg upgrade, I would recommend the MC as well worth the $159.95 to get all the functions of L5.
BTW--I'm a Sunday School teacher. After upgrading, I recommended to our church board that we do the same for our pastor. They not only agreed to the L5 Platinum upgrade, but added some extra funds so he could add the IVP Essential Collection and some other resources. I wish more churches could/would take care of their pastor's library expenses like that.
Thanks for this post, Andrew. I had concluded that the guides weren't worth the money, and therefore never placed an order for them. I'm glad to hear that was the right decision and I didn't miss out on a pre-pub bargain. If Logos is still listening, I would have considered buying these at $10 each. I would certainly have bought them at $5 each.
At the price you're asking for Genesis ($110 on prepub), I would expect the Lexham Bible Guide, plus two or three of the other commentaries it links to.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
Thanks for this post, Andrew. I had concluded that the guides weren't worth the money, and therefore never placed an order for them. I'm glad to hear that was the right decision and I didn't miss out on a pre-pub bargain. If Logos is still listening, I would have considered buying these at $10 each. I would certainly have bought them at $5 each.
At the price you're asking for Genesis ($110 on prepub), I would expect the Lexham Bible Guide, plus two or three of the other commentaries it links to.
Exactly.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Logos also benefits from pointing users (of these LBGs) repeatedly to other (locked) Logos resources. The thinking is that some users, sooner or later, will go ahead and purchase some of the items. The links to locked resources thus serve as free advertising for Logos. From a Logos sales perspective, it makes a lot of sense.
Exactly.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Logos also benefits from pointing users (of these LBGs) repeatedly to other (locked) Logos resources. The thinking is that some users, sooner or later, will go ahead and purchase some of the items. The links to locked resources thus serve as free advertising for Logos. From a Logos sales perspective, it makes a lot of sense.
I too think this is the best way to use these resources.
I too think this is the best way to use these resources.
I have wondered that if Logos would practically give these away that the resulting sales of people purchasing unlocks would pay for the production of these resources.
Anyhow, this is going to be interesting to see how these do or do not take off at their current price point.
Andrew, thank you for taking the time to review this resource for all of us.
Unfortunately in their latest site upgrade Logos removed the feature that allows people to add reviews of resources. I think your review, while not very positive from Logos' standpoint, would have been great to post there.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
That must have been temporary, because I have no problem seeing them now.
[Y]
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
Thanks for the encouragement. After my third post, I thought I'd try to combine the three posts into a single review and post it as suggested. However, the review was nearly 10,000 characters long, so when I pasted it into the review box, it was over 9000 characters too long. Apparently, Logos really only wants very short summary reviews, [:(] so I added a link back to here.
[Y]
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2