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Sleiman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 27 2012 11:27 PM

I would like to join in acknowledging the wonderful progress by Logos in getting the software more appealing to Catholics every day; as well as the wonderful work being carried out by Andrew and others getting involved on a grass roots level (example faithlife) as well as on other levels at the same time. It must be very hard work indeed (but I can imagine it to be fun and rewarding).

There is still a lot more to be done of course. MJ's post is an excellent example of where the Verbum software itself can be enhanced to sort of make it more functional for Catholics (as well as Orthodox and other traditions)

At the same time I also have to agree with Fr. Charles on most points. But here's the catch: at play is a situation much like a chicken - egg scenario. Which comes first: a lot of Catholic customers or a totally polished and completed Catholic bible study software?

A proven market is needed to justify increasing the investments to be made on the part of Logos into the Verbum brand. The more the software is appealing to Catholics the more Catholic customers will be inclined to seriously consider investing in Logos. But at the same time, without proven results (i.e. actual number of Catholic customers increasing) there's less incentive on the part of Logos to invest time and effort into Verbum.

Hence the aggressive marketing. But care should be taken so as not to promise too much otherwise it would certainly backfire. Nothing worse than a bad word of mouth to ruin any blooming business.

Fortunately, I see Logos has got a lot to offer in and of itself to Catholics even without being too Catholic (hope that makes some sense) so much so that I would honestly recommend it to as many Catholics as I can even in its current state i.e. lack of Catholic vocabulary or crippled utilization of the lectionary types.

Andrew Jones:

Monroe R Miller:

I too, would like to see Sacra Pagina and Berit Olam

They are top priorities.

This is wonderful to know.

Posts 757
Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 28 2012 12:11 AM

Excellent points Sleiman.

Thanks MJ. You are always very helpful.

Just be glad when things that are important catholic/ancient etc. terms, words, topics are usable search/results etc. criteria.

Blessings all.


Posts 28963
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 28 2012 12:22 AM

As Catholics, we often fail to understand how our perspective of Bible study has some fundamental differences from the Evangelical perspective. It becomes harder when our "professional converts" retain strong elements of their Protestant roots. However, the Catholic perspective also applies to the Orthodox, Anglican and many Lutheran and mainstream Protestants. In many ways we have more in common with Jewish interpretation than with the Logos base. I did not really understand  this until I became active in the Logos forums. a partial list of differences:

  • scripture is intertwined with liturgy - as we pray so we believe
  • scripture's meaning is reflected in the choice of scriptures juxtapositioned with it in liturgy and prayer
  • scripture may have multiple levels of meaning
  • the proposed meaning of scripture must be tested against other scripture and traditional/doctrinal norms
  • the questions asked and therefore the interpretations learned reflect the social and ecclesiastic concerns of the period
  • honest application of intellect will always lead back to its Creator - emphasis on honest
  • scripture study at its most basic is an act of listening to God / prayer / lectio divina not an intellectual activity of finding the one, true meaning of the text.

Now before everyone starts yelling at me, many of these assumptions are also applicable to groups outside those named. Not everyone inside the groups named will agree will my list ... others will add and subtract, reword and qualify my points. Many of those will be improvements on my wording or will emphasize a different aspect than I did. The point is that a truly "Catholic" product must:

  1. allow notes and other observations to cross into multiple passages
  2. allow multiple occurrences of Guides against the same passages in different contexts
  3. allow easier recognition of the time period of particular commentaries/homilies to allow us to put the interpretation in cultural context
  4. allow easier linking of notes to scripture, commentary, doctrinal documents and liturgical service or any combination thereof
  5. provide methods for preserving our research and observations so that when we cycle back (via lectionary, prayer book, reading plan) we can build on our previous work - think spiral not circle

Luckily, the feature that are necessary to be truly "Catholic" are also features that are useful to all Logos users. I truly believe that a mature Logos 5/Verbum product need differ only in a few defaults. Users can adjust their use of the features to reflect their understanding of scripture study.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1602
Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 28 2012 3:59 AM

Andrew Jones:

Monroe R Miller:

I too, would like to see Sacra Pagina and Berit Olam

They are top priorities.


How about the New Jerome Biblical Commentary?

Posts 2565
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 28 2012 6:24 AM

It would be useful if the priorities could be set so that we did not have to re prioritize everything when we switch between Verbum and Logos. Yes, when we first start Verbum it will carry over the Logos priorities already set.  But after that the priorities we set in Verbum or in Logos should not sync across.  For Logos I want KJV, ESV.  In Verbum I want DR, NABRE.   

Posts 1517
Forum MVP
Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 28 2012 7:28 AM

The Liturgy of the Hours in Latin, together with any of the official English translations (there are three of them, so hopefully at least one will give permission!).

Posts 74
Monroe R Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 28 2012 8:08 AM

Yes. That too.



Posts 2565
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 28 2012 11:20 AM

Andrew Jones:

Monroe R Miller:

I too, would like to see Sacra Pagina and Berit Olam

They are top priorities.

Just did a GOOGLE on both sets – One word response ‘WOW’

Both sets go for $30 to $50 per volume  

Sacra Pagina:  About 18 volumes – set goes for $500 in paperback $700 in hard copy    [what will be the Verbum price $150 or so?]

Berit Olam: did not find a listing for the whole set but is about 13 volumes   [what will be the Verbum price $120 or so?] 

And Yes, they should be in any complete catholic library

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