the growing library problem.

Many of the books I've purchased from the recent new base packages became deeply buried & untouched. (those monographs)

Ok, unless I perform a specific search, then they'll show up somewhere in front of me.

My suggestion is: can you guys Logos' smart employees make those books to be "involved/tied/related" to the Sermon Guide, Passage Guide, Exegetical Guide, Topic Guide, etc??

I don't know how, but, make those books become more valuable for us..

Please don't just tell me to do manual prioritization, because how should I prioritize 10k+ books?

Thanks

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

MJ. Smith

Most of my monographs are on specific passages or books so I set up collections by book of the Bible and include the collection in my Guide.

mike

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/622907#Comment_622907

yeah, that is very manual for me. You know every single books that you've bought and tagged them. But for small people like me, we don't have those skills and luxury.

Plus, things that you set up just falls under "collection", I want my monographs to fall under everything possible without manual labor work.

Is that too much to ask?

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/622912#Comment_622912

I want my monographs to fall under everything possible without manual labor work.

Is that too much to ask?

Yes!

Logos provide some tags under the heading of 'Subjects' in Library e.g you can filter Library with subject:Jews. But it soon becomes clear that your ideas of tagging and Logos' don't always agree...so then you have to provide your own tags, which are listed under 'My Tags'.

Plus, things that you set up just falls under "collection",

But those collections (based on rules like subject:Jews) can be used to filter Library, as opposed to the default of "Entire Library".

Some monographs are tagged internally for use by Logos in Guides e.g. Sermons. Some maps and atlases are used in Bible Facts. But the majority of monographs are waiting for you to tag them. Take a year or so, because your immediate requirements will always drive you. I have tagged only 20% in several years.

Mark Barnes

Please don't just tell me to do manual prioritization, because how should I prioritize 10k+ books?

You shouldn't prioritize monographs, period. It will have no effect.

My suggestion is: can you guys Logos' smart employees make those books to be "involved/tied/related" to the Sermon Guide, Passage Guide, Exegetical Guide, Topic Guide, etc??

I'm sure they're working on this, though it's not an easy problem to solve.

The relatively simple way of fixing it for now (for passage-based guides, at least), is to create some simple collections, and add collection sections to your Guides. As a minimum you should have a collection for monographs and add that, you may also prefer to add another for monographs you've rated highly. Doing so will only take a couple of minutes.

That won't help with topic-based guides, though.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/622954#Comment_622954

All but 300 or so titles are in collections in my library now, and all but a thousand (perseus) of my titles are tagged.

It does take a while. But its worth it in the end. I have spent about 30 minutes a day for two months on "library maintenance" which is basically tagging and putting books in collections.

The collections were easy as I simply use the tags from the "theological/denominational tags" thread (a typo early on that has persisted, the thread really is about collections).

I can now search my tags for grieving and baptist, and find a book on grieving from a baptist perspective (or whatever your tradition). I can search for technical commentary Ezekiel (or whatever kind of commentary - exegetical, critical, etc) and have a list of results pop up. for any book in the bible. Its made searching way more effective. but it does require a bit of effort on my part.

But then so does curating your own dead tree library.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/622970#Comment_622970

Tagging used to be fairly quick. You used a text-string to narrow down the list, and then added the tag. But the 'improvement' now makes the whole process a super-pain. Luckily I finished my tagging before they improved it.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/622912#Comment_622912

that is very manual for me

Not if you use the subject field to create your collections

ou know every single books that you've bought and tagged them

'fraid not ... I've just trashed my tags and started over about 3 months ago and am slowly tagging according to my new scheme.

we don't have those skills and luxury.

all of us had to learn the skills - we weren't born Logos-software-literate. I have the luxury/limitations of the life of a retiree who just yesterday got the last child out of the house (again) and has a very elderly mother to care for.

mike

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/622954#Comment_622954

yes, the problem is I've only tagged few of my books. It would take me months even years to go through individual books.

I love to use those GUIDES, but 7 out 10, topics that I'm looking for seldom appear in the GUIDES.

Example:why under "illustration", the books that appeared always the same 5 books. (Mark said we can't prioritize monographs)

Also when we use "collection" search, we still have to "search" between those books...I wish there's an easier way where Logos internally can simplified them into Topic Guide or something. The algorithm of results should be more precise, like Google results or something.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623341#Comment_623341

Example:why under "illustration", the books that appeared always the same 5 books. (Mark said we can't prioritize monographs)

I think the issue here is that it is only a specific set of resources (Logos-defined) which will appear in this section

Steve Farson

Just FWIW, I'm with Mike... help make those buried monographs "become more valuable for us."

I've spent serious $$$, but many books go unpointed to or unaccessed.

I see the responses on tagging and collections, but perhaps this can be visited and considered by Logos.

Thanks.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623341#Comment_623341

The algorithm of results should be more precise, like Google results or something.

Google results rarely appear "precise" to me because my searches are out of the mainstream. However, I do think Logos can do better partially by completing the tagging necessary to make particular sections work, partially by improving their sort order or giving the user more control over it, partially by providing more default collections or better support for the exchange of useful collections. And, of course, improving their algorithm although they will never have the base to "educate" the algorithm to the extent Google has.

Veli Voipio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623391#Comment_623391

There is only one mytag field. How about having more mytag fields?

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623397#Comment_623397

There is only one mytag field. How about having more mytag fields?

You may enter many mytags into the field which are treated separately. What we can't do is sort them into a consistent order on a resource.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623341#Comment_623341

yes, the problem is I've only tagged few of my books. It would take me months even years to go through individual books.

The majority of monographs are meant to be read and I've tagged the ones I'm interested in for study e.g. unread, pentecostal, theology, apologetics, creation.

I love to use those GUIDES, but 7 out 10, topics that I'm looking for seldom appear in the GUIDES.

"topics" in Topic Guide or those that are listed in the Topics section of Passage Guide come from bible dictionaries/encyclopedias, not monographs. You can't wish for a monograph to be something it was not designed to be.

Example:why under "illustration", the books that appeared always the same 5 books. (Mark said we can't prioritize monographs)

Prioritizing monographs will not make them useful in Guides. Logos' internal tagging does and we can only recommend that appropriate monographs be tagged for use in certain Guide sections e.g. sermons.

Also when we use "collection" search, we still have to "search" between those books. I wish there's an easier way where Logos internally can simplified them into Topic Guide or something.

See my comment on topics, above.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/622954#Comment_622954

You shouldn't prioritize monographs, period. It will have no effect.

Not entirely true. There are plenty of monographs that exist in different editions/translations and have suitable datatypes: Church Fathers, the CCC, the Code of Canon Law, various papal documents, the Summa... There is no particular need to prioritize them until you find Logos defaulting to another edition than the one you want, but it certainly has effect when you do.

Tagging used to be fairly quick. You used a text-string to narrow down the list, and then added the tag. But the 'improvement' now makes the whole process a super-pain.

What do you mean?

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/624636#Comment_624636

I work, using a tag-sort. In the 'old' days, when you added a tag, it didn't immediately re-sort, so I could add multiple tags for each resource. And since I also edit the title, I have to use a careful strategy to fool the Logos developers.

Playing with Windows Explorer yesterday, I can see what they copied. When editing Israel geological sections and trying to match up with 2 lists to see what was missing, Explorer would re-sort the minute I edited the filename. Luckily I found a master list to overcome Explorer.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/624650#Comment_624650

So your issue is that Logos has become too fast??[:O] That's a new one![:)]

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/624658#Comment_624658

That's ALWAYS been my complaint with cutie-pie software ... the developers want to out-guess your next move.

And in the old 'PC' days, they had to put in event timers to slow the software down, given the likelihood of a new faster chipset.

Currently my headache is with iPad which USED to not move the list of apps open, when you double-clicked. Now they move it one-over and I delete the app I'm trying to move to! Months of trying to use my head have not worked.

To illustrate and just seconds ago (and totally unrelated to libraries), I simply wanted to locate Hazor. I popped open the Facts tool into a small panel only to have the 'big-picture' locator not re-size and thus be as big as wherever Hazor might be down below. Lots of mindliess cutsie.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/624636#Comment_624636

You shouldn't prioritize monographs, period. It will have no effect.

Not entirely true. There are plenty of monographs that exist in different editions/translations and have suitable datatypes: Church Fathers,

I had forgotten about the Apostolic Fathers monographs (English) and the use of their Greek text (not monograph) in Word Study guides. Prioritization affects the reference lookup in resources like AYBD and the Greek text to be searched in Word Study.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/624636#Comment_624636

You shouldn't prioritize monographs, period. It will have no effect.

Not entirely true. There are plenty of monographs that exist in different editions/translations and have suitable datatypes: Church Fathers, the CCC, the Code of Canon Law, various papal documents, the Summa... There is no particular need to prioritize them until you find Logos defaulting to another edition than the one you want, but it certainly has effect when you do.

Yes, sorry, that was an over-generalisation. It's a very good general rule, though. In a recent thread, I said this:

Technically, the type of a resource doesn't affect whether or not it can be prioritised. What matters is what indexes it has. If it only has a page number index, or no index, then there's no point prioritising it. We say "don't prioritise monographs", as almost all monographs don't have these indexes.

mike

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/624962#Comment_624962

good idea on the other thread mark.

but, maaaan .... that alloooot of manual works...

I think I have 12k+ resources and I'm NOT planning to tag and make the type of works you did.

I think Logos need to step up their game on these and make those monographs "user friendly" for practical usage.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/624988#Comment_624988

I'm NOT planning to tag and make the type of works you did.

If you're talking about this, I haven't tagged them. They're just collections with simple rules, using the subject field that already exists. I just checked my library, and I have precisely 19 monographs tagged (and one of those tags is "to-read").

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/624988#Comment_624988

I think I have 12k+ resources and I'm NOT planning to tag and make the type of works you did.

Peace. Personally use a mixture of library tagging and dynamic rules for collections. New library resources have myrating of 0 (while community rating can be different):

When have verified a resource is in desired collection(s), then change rating to 2 stars. Like English resources to be in 5 or more collections since have 4 largish collections:

English Library without Bibles
English Library without Commentary
English Library without Perseus
Language:English

If a resource is not in desired collection(s), then have three options: modify collection(s) to include resource, add tag(s), or manually include.

Thankful for Rosie's ratings => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/4363/157779.aspx#157779

0 stars - just purchased, haven't had time to do anything with it yet (though I usually do them right away so they don't stay in this state for very long)
1 star - I really don't think this resource is very valuable and would usually chose to ignore it, but I don't dislike it enough to hide it
2 stars - the rating I assign to everything as soon as I buy it, which means basically "I don't know yet what I think of this"
3 stars - good
4 stars - very good
5 stars - outstanding, one of my favorite resources

When have an opinion about a resource, then change rating appropriately.

Thankful for Logos Metadata, which can be used for dynamic rule collections. Wiki has => https://wiki.logos.com/Example_Collections

If join Faithlife group Logos Collections, can copy any of the 316 Collections by clicking Get Copy to the right of the desired document name followed by synchronizing Logos. Alternative is Select All then Action => Get Copies

Blog => http://blog.logos.com/2014/04/40000-books-in-18-months-a-crowdsourced-tagging-project/

Favorites is also useful; wiki has => http://wiki.logos.com/Favorites

I think Logos need to step up their game on these and make those monographs "user friendly" for practical usage.

Thankful can search for articles using Heading Text; Large Text; Title

Keep Smiling [:)]

mike

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/626727#Comment_626727

thanks for your reply,

First, Rosie spent years rating her resources -- so uhmm...I don't think I want to do that.

Second, I understand those collections are users made, but it is still incomplete. What if I want to find the subject of comparative religion or post modernism? I couldn't find a collection under those topics. (I looked the first 9 pages of the collection thingy plus the search field).

edit:some been answered by person after me.

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/626746#Comment_626746

I understand those collections are users made, but it is still incomplete. What if I want to find the subject of comparative religion or post modernism? I couldn't find a collection under those topics. (I looked the first 9 pages of the collection thingy plus the search field).

Anyway, I think Logos is responsible to create a new system for us.

mike, did you ever look at the subjects column in your library? You can use it to group books in your libray much like the Amazon example you posted and to a greater level of granularity. It's already there (Logos even adresses potential errors and ambiguities in these subjects by reworking the metadata if pointed to it).

When you want to find books on a subject, just type it into the library filter box. This will capture it from all fields, including titles, subjects and resource descriptions. There's no issue around that and you don't need collections for that.

The collection rules in the wiki, the forum and Faithlife are just examples that users found helpful and shared and some others found helpful and adopted and/or refined or used as input for their own collections.

Have you been to a paper library once? You can think of a collection like these four-wheel carts filled with books. You don't need this cart to find a certain book (or shelf). But you can ask Logos to put certain books from all the shelves into that cart and then tell it to look for information only in the cart. That's what collections are for.

So if you have a library filter phrase that is helpful for you to assemble a bunch of books you want to treat as information source (such as title:"post modern" OR subject:"post modern") you can simply use this to build your collection of post-modernism books. You can add or remove titles (or groups) for greater precision. Logos will fill these into the cart - and have them remain on your shelf. A book doesn't need to be in a collection or in one collection - it can be in zero or a hundred of them.

What some do, is using collections as representation of bookshelves. Which is great, since you can have a book in multiple shelves, if you want to. And work on the unshelved ones - if you like.

What Rosie and others who want to really know their library do doesn't take years, but it takes a couple of seconds at each newly-acquired resource over the years. And persistence.

The dynamic nature of collections allows to counter the "growing library problem" by automatically putting a new book into the existing collections, if the rules apply. An update to Luthers Works, consisting of Sermons will automatically put itself into the cart(s) / into the shelf(ves) it belongs, such as "Lutheran", "Sermon Examples", "Post-medieval devotional literature", whatever.

The point is, Logos can't know your research interest. Someone in urban youth ministry may want a large collection "old boring stuff" with rule pubdate:<2000 whereas someone doing a PhD on "the development of preaching themes in reformation-era continental Europe" may manually assign books that relate to this topic to a dozen fine-grained collections that differ by years, by regions and by slightest shades of theological traditions. This is something Logos can't do for us. The subjects, however, provide some structure in the library jungle and are already there - afaik mostly prefilled by the publishers according to some common standards.

mike

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/626762#Comment_626762

thanks Mick,

I didn't know "subject" existed because my laptop screen is 13", and subject tab is all the way on the right. I've never journeyed that far. [:P]

Now, I humbly request Logos to register more monographs into the GUIDES.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/626771#Comment_626771

Hi Mike

subject tab is all the way on the right

If you're not aware already you can drag columns so you can position the "subject" column in a more easily visible position. You can also right-click on the column headers and change which columns are displayed

Graham

Randy W. Sims

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/626771#Comment_626771

I thought about this issue a while back in relation to the bookstore and topic guides. I had asked on the forums for a recommendation for a resource on a topic, but I kept thinking it would be great (for me and for Logos) if I could tap the collective wisdom of other users to find resources on a topic from within Logos. If Logos could tap subjects, community tags on resources, community tags on clippings, notes and/or highlights (a very good suggestion engine is needed here, one that learns as more things are tagged based on the text being tagged), to generate a list of highly relevant resources based on how many people tag a resource with a certain topic and how many clippings from a resource are tagged with relevant tags, etc. Additionally, a way to browse (prev/next) through community highlights, clippings, etc, for resources we own and resources we don't own but are interested in would help to better evaluate those resources for relevance. A good suggestion engine would be key in order to get a lot of people tagging, but with that tagging Logos should be able to make great suggestions based on community wisdom. In order to eliminate the irrelevant stuff, this would probably need to be restrained so it only takes into consideration a set vocabulary of terms when analyzing tags, ignoring those odd tags we use for personal uses, dates of purchase, etc.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/626746#Comment_626746

What if I want to find the subject of comparative religion or post modernism?

One option is filter Library that searches all fields:

Noticed a variety of subjects in Library results.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Wayne

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/626746#Comment_626746

Something that I have done when I want to search a topic like comparative religion or post-modernism is that I will do a search of a particular topic in the appropriate collection and then followup with a search of the whole library. What I am looking for is books that are not part of the collection, but should be. I don't tag the books, but look to see how they were tagged by Logos. I then add the Logos tag to my collection. I usually end up several books to my collection when I follow this procedure.

The second thing that I do is search for a topic in the Title and Heading Text fields. You could for example search for Hindu with this search in your entire library and could be fairly certain that your results wills be appropriate.