Zondervan Pricing

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Jim VanSchoonhoven | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2010 11:05 AM

P. Keith Larson, I am not sure, but did I ever say I was going to order EBC on pre-pub?

If you look back at my posts I don't think I did, I have only said that as soon as the resource hits the streets at 130.00 that I will buy it,

I have not put it on pre-pub and do not plan on putting it on pre-pub.  There is no incentive for me to put it on Pre-Pub. But like I said before, if this source was ready to be shipped today, I would buy it for 130.00 today, because of the value I put on it, but I would also check for lower prices to see if some one else offered it for less today, and if they did I would buy it for less, but if I could not buy it today for less I would lay down the 130.00 because it is worth having today for 130.00.

However, I am serious about finding a replacement for it for less money, were you able to think of anything?  What is in the less than 130.00 price range to compete with this series that covers OT and NT?  Did you think of anything?  If not I guess we will just have to disagree on this one, because I am willing to pay the 130.00 for this set!

I actually don't even think the zondervan resources should be listed as pre-pub.

In Christ,

Jim

Posts 5615
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2010 11:12 AM

Alex Scott:

Yeah - tell that to the people who would love to get their hands on The Interpretation Commentaries.

Maybe, but there's a big difference between WJK and Zondervan.  Zondervan has been marketing it's stuff electronically for years (to a popular market, unlike WJK) and only stopped doing it in-house when they switched to Logos.

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Posts 1646
SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2010 11:30 AM

Todd Phillips:
tell that to the people who would love to get their hands on The Interpretation Commentaries

The same thing happened to Barclay's Daily Bible Study Series - before I realized it was available under one of the earlier Schlars packages, it had been yanked out of Logos - I then bought the Scholars back then and it was no longer available. So yes, it happens (hopefuly rarely) but when it does and it is your "favorite" that is no longer available, it is a "sad" day. [And yes, I found an "inferior" version from one of the "free" platforms, but that is really NOT the issue, here.]

And no, I'm also not pre-pub'ing these Zondervan "deals" either until I find our what the "real" street price is (or what "break" they "might" give me for my, formerly, non logos, Pradis items).. If I have to pay these prices now for pre-pub I might as well wait and get them on the "pay-by-the-month" plan. The  extra $5 service charge pales in "pain" compared to the present advertised prices.

Regards

Steve

 

Regards, SteveF

Posts 569
J. Morris | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2010 11:34 AM

JimVanSchoonhoven:
I actually don't even think the zondervan resources should be listed as pre-pub.

Yes

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2010 12:11 PM

is it just me, or does it sound like things are getting a little testy over something few of us can control, but over which we can disagree--and in the end, not matter much one way or the other?  maybe i am overreading the inflections on some of these posts--which seem to have at times a tad bit of condescension or sarcasm.

I sure hope I am reading into these more than is there.

We can argue about pricing desires, but I would agree the EBC series is overall pretty fair in price as it stands, as a pre-pub/"sale price".  And it is better than Tyndale in comparison.  But it is one of only a few Z resources showing that good a deal.  The others are practically MSRP and way higher, same prepub as msrp.  Those are bad 'deals."  and for comparison, tyndale msrp is about half the cost of EBC msrp, whatever that means.  About the same pages in content. and probably about as good--if not better, across the board book for book/author for author.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 1130
Keith Larson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2010 12:24 PM

JimVanSchoonhoven:
P. Keith Larson

 

You can just call me Keith. Smile

JimVanSchoonhoven:

but did I ever say I was going to order EBC on pre-pub?

If you look back at my posts I don't think I did, I have only said that as soon as the resource hits the streets at 130.00 that I will buy it,

 

I am sure you didn't and I did not read your posts closely enough. Sorry if there was any offense.

JimVanSchoonhoven:
However, I am serious about finding a replacement for it for less money, were you able to think of anything?  What is in the less than 130.00 price range to compete with this series that covers OT and NT?  Did you think of anything?  If not I guess we will just have to disagree on this one, because I am willing to pay the 130.00 for this set!

 

I can't think of any either. I never said $130 was too much, but if I can pay less, why not!!

JimVanSchoonhoven:
I actually don't even think the zondervan resources should be listed as pre-pub.

 

I agree. By using the pre-pub page as a pre-order page is potentially very confusing. It concerns me that some people actually think they are getting a deal on these items when in fact they are paying the highest possible retail price.

It seems that all the publishing partners have placed Logos in this uncomfortable position. I cannot recall one example of a third party product that did not sell for more on the Logos pre-pub page that I have not been able to purchase "on the street". Zondervan just happens to be the worst example. At least IVP, Baker and Nelson let Logos offer some discount.

This is not Logos' fault. Zondervan sales the EBC to Exceedingly Happy Christian Software for $65 and Exceedingly Happy sells it for $70, but Zondervan tells Logos they must sell the EBC for full retail. There is no way that Logos or even brick and mortar bookstores can compete against the Internet discounters.

Posts 579
Jim VanSchoonhoven | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2010 12:28 PM

Dan, I can only speak for myself, and all I am doing is pointing out the same thing that you just mentioned.

Overall I believe Zondervan's pricing is out of line and it is going to cause them some hard feelings, but on the other hand in my case the EBC is a good buy even at their high price and I am willing to buy it at that price because I can't see anything else that fills that spot for any less.

Zondervan must know that EBC is one of their few good deals, and hopefully if enough of us buy their good deals and leave their outrageous priced stuff alone, they will get a message and respond with better values in the future.

In my mind disagreement on this issue is not important, and it doesn't bother me if we disagree, but I was answering a post by another person that could not understand why anyone would have any reason to buy any of the Zondervan products at these prices, I was giving him my reasons.

In Christ,

Jim

Posts 320
John Bowling | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2010 1:15 PM

Alex Scott:
 First of all, many of us who have been here for a long time have been pressuring Z to have their resources in Logos format, giving the impression at least that there is a large demand for the products.

First of all, maybe they should have done better research into the matter if they were misled. If I think there will be a ginormous demand for q-tips and invest all my money in their stock and that turns out to be false, then is everyone else to blame for not wanting more q-tips or am I just a bad investor (or maybe I just made a mistake)? Obviously the consumers aren't to blame for not supplying the demand.

Secondly, did people here suggest that they would pay a certain amount for the product? If not, then Zondervan isn't justified in presuming that customers will be happy with any ol' price sticker they slap on their product.

Alex Scott:
 If on the other hand, it turns out that there is NOT that demand, don't be surprised if Z pull out of the agreement, in which case you may get a really good deal - it will cost you $0.00 - for nothing.

Fine, that would only prove Zondervan made a mistake or a misjudgment. They thought there would be a market for a product at such and such a price but it turns out they were wrong. 

Alex Scott:
But then that won't be a problem for many because it is apparent that the money is far more important than the resources to them.

Exactly, that's how any free transaction occurs. I give something I value less for something I value more and the person I'm trading with is doing the exact same thing. So if you haven't bought the AYBD yet that means you value your money more than that product (or some other item that an equivalent amount of money can be used for). Same goes for Zondervan. If people aren't buying the product "Z" is producing that simply means the people value the money (or the other items they could be acquiring with the money) more than Zondervan's product. If anyone is to "blame," it's Zondervan, the producer, not us, the consumer. (However, I don't mean to imply it's a moral failing, just a business failing.)

Alex Scott:
The upside for Z in that case is that they will no longer have to listen to us pestering them because the matter will have been settled once and for all.

I hope the business persons of Zondervan are smart enough to not see market feedback as "pestering"... otherwise they should have picked a different career.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2010 1:18 PM

JimVanSchoonhoven:

Dan, I can only speak for myself, and all I am doing is pointing out the same thing that you just mentioned.

Overall I believe Zondervan's pricing is out of line and it is going to cause them some hard feelings, but on the other hand in my case the EBC is a good buy even at their high price and I am willing to buy it at that price because I can't see anything else that fills that spot for any less.

Zondervan must know that EBC is one of their few good deals, and hopefully if enough of us buy their good deals and leave their outrageous priced stuff alone, they will get a message and respond with better values in the future.

In my mind disagreement on this issue is not important, and it doesn't bother me if we disagree, but I was answering a post by another person that could not understand why anyone would have any reason to buy any of the Zondervan products at these prices, I was giving him my reasons.

In Christ,

Jim

fair enough!  Smile

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2010 1:18 PM

John Bowling:

 

Alex Scott:
The upside for Z in that case is that they will no longer have to listen to us pestering them because the matter will have been settled once and for all.

I hope the business persons of Zondervan are smart enough to not see market feedback as "pestering"... otherwise they should have picked a different career.

great point!

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 390
Alain Maashe | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2010 1:45 PM

JimVanSchoonhoven:

 

Overall I believe Zondervan's pricing is out of line and it is going to cause them some hard feelings, but on the other hand in my case the EBC is a good buy even at their high price and I am willing to buy it at that price because I can't see anything else that fills that spot for any less.

Zondervan must know that EBC is one of their few good deals, and hopefully if enough of us buy their good deals and leave their outrageous priced stuff alone, they will get a message and respond with better values in the future.

Jim

I personally do not believe that EBC is a good deal. it is not because I do not like the series (I do and have it in Pradis), but it is because it is being phased out and replaced by a revised edition that is 70-80% completed. I would not be surprised if they published the revised volumes electronically later this year or the next (partial collection or in full).

I have the print volumes of the revised edition and will wait until the it is published electronically to purchase it in Logos format (if the price is right).

I would hate to spent the money and be stuck with an edition that is already obsolete (the old edition) by the time it is published by Logos ans see them publish the revised one not too long after.

 

Alain

 

Posts 538
Bobby Terhune | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2010 1:47 PM

Dan DeVilder:

I would agree the EBC series is overall pretty fair in price as it stands, as a pre-pub/"sale price".  And it is better than Tyndale in comparison.  But it is one of only a few Z resources showing that good a deal.  The others are practically MSRP and way higher, same prepub as msrp.  Those are bad 'deals."  and for comparison, tyndale msrp is about half the cost of EBC msrp, whatever that means.  About the same pages in content. and probably about as good--if not better, across the board book for book/author for author.

Dan,

I think we need to realize the EBC is out of date, some of the volumes are 33 years old and are now being superceded by the new EBC that is now almost complete, I believe 8 volumes are now complete. I don't think Zondervan is giving us a "deal" here, but being practical in their pricing since it won't be long when be will see another pre-pub for the 2nd edition of EBC. And that is a pre-pub I'm looking forward too.

Posts 1130
Keith Larson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2010 2:03 PM

John great points. Bob has gone to great lengths on this forum reminding us that Logos is a business, not a non-profit ministry. That means we are consumers, not supporters of a non-profit ministry. If we don't act like good consumers we really are not doing Logos a favor, because the market will catch up with any business, no manner how much the loyalty of few "supporters" temporarily skew sales. Despite what has been suggested by some, the failure of any product to not generate enough sales is never the fault of the consumer and is always the fault of the business. There is an old saying in business that "the consumer is always right", businesses that ignore this rule do so at their own risk. It is not because I am not a loyal American that I drive a Toyota and Honda, it is because the big three and the UAW forgot this basic rule. All things being equal I would buy American, I take no pleasure in seeing large sections of Detroit abandoned. In fact, it makes me very sad. However not all things are equal.  "Buy American" bumper stickers are not going to guilt me into being less than a good steward by being a good consumer.

Posts 1130
Keith Larson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2010 2:06 PM

Alain Maashe:
I personally do not believe that EBC is a good deal. it is not because I do not like the series (I do and have it in Pradis), but it is because it is being phased out and replaced by a revised edition that is 70-80% completed.

 

Wow. I didn't know this. Thanks for the information. Now I can be an even wiser consumer! Smile

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2010 2:09 PM

John Bowling:
I hope the business persons of Zondervan are smart enough to not see market feedback as "pestering"... otherwise they should have picked a different career.

Great post and a great response.Yes

Ted

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Posts 579
Jim VanSchoonhoven | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2010 2:36 PM

Bobby, I know how old the EBC is and I still love to use it and I love the insight that many of it's authors had, new or not does not effect the value to me, it's usefullness does. In my case I sure hope I am getting the old set!

On the other hand, the way I look at it, all commentaries are out dated in some areas by the time they are printed, so we are only talking degrees here!

I am not knocking the new commentaries, I am only saying that the age of a commentary does not always deterimine it's usefulness, and some things never get out dated, and for me this set fits that bill and is worth the 130.00.

Of course I get a lot of use out such old commentaries as Lange, Linski and The Greek Testament by Alford, along with the old  Expositor’s Greek Testament by Nicoll and even the old Greek set by John Bengel.

If I want the latest, most up to date information on a subject or passage I go to journals!  These are the leading edge as far as I can see.

In Christ,

Jim

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 7 2010 2:40 PM

BobbyTerhune:

Dan DeVilder:

I would agree the EBC series is overall pretty fair in price as it stands, as a pre-pub/"sale price".  And it is better than Tyndale in comparison.  But it is one of only a few Z resources showing that good a deal.  The others are practically MSRP and way higher, same prepub as msrp.  Those are bad 'deals."  and for comparison, tyndale msrp is about half the cost of EBC msrp, whatever that means.  About the same pages in content. and probably about as good--if not better, across the board book for book/author for author.

 

Dan,

I think we need to realize the EBC is out of date, some of the volumes are 33 years old and are now being superceded by the new EBC that is now almost complete, I believe 8 volumes are now complete. I don't think Zondervan is giving us a "deal" here, but being practical in their pricing since it won't be long when be will see another pre-pub for the 2nd edition of EBC. And that is a pre-pub I'm looking forward too.

Alain's post and yours are enlightening.  I had heard about an EBC revision, but had long forgotten it.  And mostly I agree that we are not getting a "deal" in that sense.  My post was relative to the MSRP and the Logos pre pub price compared to the other Z products that have zero difference.  And I was agreeing that it was cheaper than Tyndale (if we are indeed comparing apples to apples, even if they might be Red Delicious vs. Granny SmithStick out tongue).  

Being reminded of the revised series, that tempers my "good deal" comment somewhat.

 

Still, the EBC is not bad.  even if a bit dated.  I have liked several volumes within that, even as others were pretty weak.  It was a good set to own, money wise, when my resources (dollars and books) were slim.  They can still be helpful, but I refer less and less to them.

Curious . . . WHY the "deep discount" on NIVAC NT and EBC and some others, and ZILCH on the others (NIDOTT, etc)  EBC's revision could explain that.  Would NIVAC be up for a revision?  It is not as old as EBC.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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