Zondervan Pricing

After much research i shall be cancelling my Pre -Pub order and waiting for the Zondervan discount announcement for existing Pradis users. The price is way to high for the digital format in Logos. Not Logos fault of course as the pricing is down to Zondervan. I am not prepared to pay a high price for the Zondervan product as it is currently advertised on the Logos Pre-Pub page. I will wait for the Zondervan announcement before making the cancellation but will definitely cancel my order if it ships before the announcement.

Ted

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71072#Comment_71072

I will wait for the Zondervan announcement before making the cancellation but will definitely cancel my order if it ships before the announcement.

Since this pre-pub was "in production" before it was even posted, there is not even the incentive of ordering a product for the purpose of bringing it to Logos. In addition, we know the price will not go up, because it is as high as it can go, so why not wait. There is nothing to lose and everything to gain by not placing a pre-order. That is why I just don't get this. Does Zondervan think we are stupid or something?

NetworkGeek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71087#Comment_71087

Add me to the list who would have ordered with a "typical" pre-pub discount, but at full price there is no incentive to buy.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71087#Comment_71087

Since this pre-pub was "in production" before it was even posted, there is not even the incentive of ordering a product for the purpose of bringing it to Logos. In addition, we know the price will not go up, because it is as high as it can go, so why not wait. There is nothing to lose and everything to gain by not placing a pre-order. That is why I just don't get this. Does Zondervan think we are stupid or something?

Yes, what you say make sense will cancel now.

Ted

Edit : Just been to the Pre-Pub page there is actually a Pre-Pub discount for the item i have pre-ordered. I guess i will just have to wait for the announcement from Zondervan before cancelling my order.

James Thompson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71087#Comment_71087

I have a couple of the Zondervan items on pre-order. I haven't cancelled my order because I'm assuming that the Logos version once completed will have referencing and linking capability with other Logo family products. I'm assuming that's not the case if I purchase the Pradis version. Maybe I've got it all wrong. Can someone from Logos clarify this? Thanks!

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71095#Comment_71095

I haven't cancelled my order because I'm assuming that the Logos version once completed will have referencing and linking capability with other Logo family products.

You're correct, but the issue here is the pricing structure, not the functionality.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71095#Comment_71095

I understand what you are saying, but I have to admit, that I like at least one of their resources so much, and feel that it is a great buy even at full price that I will buy it at full retail, just to have it in Logos 4, and I will be thankful to have it, but I will still resent the attitude that Zondervan has!!!

If their pricing was reduced I would buy a lot more, or their products, I don't know what they are thinking!

By the way since it is full retail, I will not be in a big rush to buy this item and will pick up other Logos items that are on sale, before I get this one item.

I also think Logos might as well take Zondervan off the pre-pub page, since pre-pub has always been a means of getting new books at the best price, but with Zondervan it just means being able to pay full retail!!!

Is there anyone else that thinks Zondervan products at these prices doesn't belong on the pre-pub page?

In Christ,

Jim

J. Morris

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71108#Comment_71108

I'm a little confused (a reoccurring theme). Is the pre-pub price reduced at all or is it going to be sold at that price even after it is in full Logos production?

If it is going to be sold at the same price then it shouldn't be listed on the pre-pub page IMO.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71108#Comment_71108

i already cancelled. Some of their material is at a 'decent" pre-pub price, like the EBC and the NIVACNT. Incidentally, pre-pub is the same as "Logos Sale Price."

i have those (and others) already on Pradis. No incentive to pay money now, certainly not $2000. I love the product, not the price and before they came to Logos, not much of the service. I wish them well.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71095#Comment_71095

I have a couple of the Zondervan items on pre-order. I haven't canceled my order because I'm assuming that the Logos version once completed will have referencing and linking capability with other Logo family products. I'm assuming that's not the case if I purchase the Pradis version. Maybe I've got it all wrong. Can someone from Logos clarify this? Thanks!

I was not questioning the functionality, the Logos format will be better, but the pricing. Why offer a Pre-pub at full MSRP, which will probably be discounted sometime in the future? Even if it is never discounted a person can always pay the full MSRP, but the prudent thing to do is to at least wait and see if Zondervan offers these products themselves at a lower price.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71131#Comment_71131

I'm a little confused (a reoccurring theme). Is the pre-pub price reduced at all or is it going to be sold at that price even after it is in full Logos production?

If it is going to be sold at the same price then it shouldn't be listed on the pre-pub page IMO.

I can see how this might confuse someone new to the Logos family. In the past third party Logos compatible products (Nelson, Baker and IVP) have been offered on the Pre-pub page and they were either not discounted at all or for less that you could purchase these products from a retail store. They are really just pre-orders.

I agree they shouldn't be on the pre-pub page. It appears to me that you thought you were getting a discounted price, when in fact you were just committing yourself to purchase a product before it's street price was set. A win-win for Logos and Zondervan, a losing proposition for the customer however.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71133#Comment_71133

i already canceled.

I hope people don't think I started this thread to take away sales from Logos, but to discus something that just does not make sense to me. I doubt Logos had any choice but to sell these resources at the price Zondervan told them to list it at. This is the reason I think Zondervan will be packaging these resources into their own Logos Libraries as Nelson does and selling them for less.

Speaking of Nelson, this is just what they do. Take any of Nelson's eBible libraries and then add up what it would cost you to unlock those same books from the Logos site and you can see that Nelson is purposely putting Logos at a competitive disadvantage. The big losers in all this are the customers who unwittingly unlock Nelson books from Logos and pay far more than they have to.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71108#Comment_71108

I understand what you are saying, but I have to admit, that I like at least one of their resources so much, and feel that it is a great buy even at full price that I will buy it at full retail, just to have it in Logos 4,

I can appreciate this and this in my mind is the only reason to pre-pub one of these resources, but for me there is nothing that Zondervan is offering that I am not willing to wait and see if I can pick it up for less.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71152#Comment_71152

...a losing proposition for the customer however.

I guess that would be in the eyes of the beholder. In the 12+ years that I've been buying Logos products (directly from them and 3rd party vendors), I've never considered anything I bought a "losing proposition." There are 3-4 Zondervan titles I've ordered on pre-pub. Sure I would like to get them at 1/2 the list price; however, I don't consider the prepub price for any of the resources I've ordered to be out of line. No one is committed to buy anything ordered on prepub until it ships - there's usually sufficient time to change one's mind in case of buyer's remorse...

Alex Scott

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71203#Comment_71203

Yeah for years, all we've heard is - we want the resources that Zondervan has - over and over and over again. Now finally, with a lot of effort from Logos I expect, we have what we've asked for so long and all some of us can do is complain about the cost. You know what? - No one is forcing you to buy anything. If you want it - buy it. If you're just looking for bargain prices I guess you really don't want it very badly.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71165#Comment_71165

i already canceled.

I hope people don't think I started this thread to take away sales from Logos

Just to ease your mind, i cancelled on my own weeks ago. I have no animosity toward Logos, nor want to take sales away. I spent over 3000 dollars on Logs stuff last year. Not bragging or looking to compare, just saying it wasn't pocket change. I can't even come close to that this year. So I have to be way more choosy.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71369#Comment_71369

Yeah for years, all we've heard is - we want the resources that Zondervan has - over and over and over again. Now finally, with a lot of effort from Logos I expect, we have what we've asked for so long and all some of us can do is complain about the cost. You know what? - No one is forcing you to buy anything. If you want it - buy it. If you're just looking for bargain prices I guess you really don't want it very badly.

I am not complaining, just truly puzzled. I lose nothing by waiting. They are already in production, so my pre-order will not help bring these long desired resources to Logos. They are already at maximum price, so ththere is no danger in the price being higher in the future. The customer has everything to gain by waiting and nothing to lose. I just don't get it.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71424#Comment_71424

If the product is a good value to a person at full retail and they do not buy it but wait instead, some of us would miss out on the use of that product!!! I know of at least one set of commentaries that if I had it, I would use it at least 3-4 times a week and maybe every day.

To me having this set in Logos, would be worth it, I know from using this set in the past that I would use it all of the time, I had it in paper and gave it away when we moved into a motorhome, I miss it dearly, and I will pay retail for it!

However, if Zondervan is listening... you are missing out on sales and building bad feelings with these high prices, yes I want your resources and I want them in Logos 4, but look around at everybody elses prices and you will see many sources that are just as good as yours at a fraction of the price!

In Christ,

Jim

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71463#Comment_71463

However, if Zondervan is listening... you are missing out on sales and building bad feelings with these high prices

By waiting I don't think I will have any bad feelings. I am confident that Zondervan is going to package these resources in products that will sell at about the same price as their Pradis software. I will feel real good. It will be the people who have purchased these pre-pubs who will not be feeling so good.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71476#Comment_71476

It will be the people who have purchased these pre-pubs who will not be feeling so good.

A most erroneous presumption on your part!!!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71479#Comment_71479

It will be the people who have purchased these pre-pubs who will not be feeling so good.

A most erroneous presumption on your part!!!

I don't get your point Otto. A product at $2000 plus on Pre-Pub now, later i find that it is going for $1000, you think that it is an "erroneous presumption" to expect that those who have paid the higher price will not be feeling good about it?

Perhaps i am not understanding your point in the spirit you intended it.

Ted

John Bowling

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71369#Comment_71369

Now finally, with a lot of effort from Logos I expect, we have what we've asked for so long and all some of us can do is complain about the cost.

This is how the free market works. The value of any item is relative to the demands of the people in relation to the desires and resources of the producers. Are the Logos resources of Zondervan worth the price Zondervan and Logos are listing? We usually answer such questions by looking at the general market. If they are selling enough for Zondervan and Logos to make a profit then we say "yes". But this is simply descriptive of what people are willing to pay. It isn't normative of what they should pay.

Thus, in a market driven by supply/demand the perfectly natural thing to do if you're not satisfied with a price is complain. That's one way producers like Logos and Zondervan will know that they are overpricing their items (again, this is descriptive). Another thing to do is not buy their resource.

In light of this I don't see why you find it problematic that persons could want something and then complain about the price once it is offered. Suppose you are lost in the desert and want a glass of water. I offer it to you for 1 million dollars. You complain. Does this mean you must not really want it very badly?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71575#Comment_71575

It will be the people who have purchased these pre-pubs who will not be feeling so good.

A most erroneous presumption on your part!!!

I don't get your point Otto. A product at $2000 plus on Pre-Pub now, later i find that it is going for $1000, you think that it is an "erroneous presumption" to expect that those who have paid the higher price will not be feeling good about it?

Perhaps i am not understanding your point in the spirit you intended it.

Ted

7 - 8 years ago (or longer - I can't remember when), I pre-ordered the WBC series from Nelson's for around $499 (I can't remember the exact figure). Logos just had that commentary set on sale for $399 as part of its Christmas special. Now, would have like to have paid $399 when I pre-ordered way back when? YES!!! Do I regret not waiting until 2009 to purchase it for $399? A resounding NO!!! The $100 savings I could have enjoyed by waiting pales in comparison to the benefits of using the WBC in my studies during the many years since I first bought it. I would feel the same way if the WBC can be bought for $200 today - I'm not going to feel bad about what I paid for it when it was first released because it was worth it to me!!!

Of the 87 volume Zondervan collection, there are around 13 volumes (individual titles and in sets) that I would probably use at least 3-4 times a week in my studies. The total price is around $500. It's a judgment call - I am willing to pay $500 for the opportunity to use them when they are released. It is a price I can live with. Now if in a couple of years or so those same books could be bought for $250 (and there's certainly NO guarantee that this would ever happen), that is great for those who are in the market then. But I'm not going to slit my wrist over it. I'm getting the books at a price I'm willing to pay to start using them NOW. If I didn't feel that way about the resources I ordered, I probably wouldn't buy them if they were half price later.

Unless the prices are slashed 50% the day after my credit card is charged, I will be fine!!! [;)]

John Bowling

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71601#Comment_71601

7 - 8 years ago (or longer - I can't remember when), I pre-ordered the WBC series from Nelson's for around $499 (I can't remember the exact figure). Logos just had that commentary set on sale for $399 as part of its Christmas special. Now, would have like to have paid $399 when I pre-ordered way back when? YES!!! Do I regret not waiting until 2009 to purchase it for $399? A resounding NO!!! The $100 savings I could have enjoyed by waiting pales in comparison to the benefits of using the WBC in my studies during the many years since I first bought it. I would feel the same way if the WBC can be bought for $200 today - I'm not going to feel bad about what I paid for it when it was first released because it was worth it to me!!!

Of the 87 volume Zondervan collection, there are around 13 volumes (individual titles and in sets) that I would probably use at least 3-4 times a week in my studies. The total price is around $500. It's a judgment call - I am willing to pay $500 for the opportunity to use them when they are released. It is a price I can live with. Now if in a couple of years or so those same books could be bought for $250 (and there's certainly NO guarantee that this would ever happen), that is great for those who are in the market then. But I'm not going to slit my wrist over it. I'm getting the books at a price I'm willing to pay to start using them NOW. If I didn't feel that way about the resources I ordered, I probably wouldn't buy them if they were half price later.

Unless the prices are slashed 50% the day after my credit card is charged, I will be fine!!!

One also has to factor in that many of us already have some of or all of these resources in hard copy or that we may be able to get them in hard copy for cheaper.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71601#Comment_71601

Unless the prices are slashed 50% the day after my credit card is charged, I will be fine!!!

Thanks for responding i see now what you mean. My concern was that, the Zondervan product ships on Pre-Pub only to find that after a short while it is being offered cheaper than expected by Zondervan. This happened with the print edition of the Old Testament background commentary and the Zondervan 5vols. Dictionary. I almost purchased it at Amazon only to receive an email from Zondervan 2 weeks later that i could have 60% off of these titles. Now i would not have been happy but in your scenario, two or three years later, a different ball game.

Thanks for the explanation

Ted.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71165#Comment_71165

i already canceled.

I hope people don't think I started this thread to take away sales from Logos

lol, i just noticed i originally spelled "cancelled" and your quote has "canceled." Looks like both are acceptable spellings. . .[8-|]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71601#Comment_71601

7 - 8 years ago (or longer - I can't remember when), I pre-ordered the WBC series from Nelson's for around $499 (I can't remember the exact figure). Logos just had that commentary set on sale for $399 as part of its Christmas special. Now, would have like to have paid $399 when I pre-ordered way back when? YES!!! Do I regret not waiting until 2009 to purchase it for $399? A resounding NO!!!

I understand that scenario very well, and it occurs often. In my own case regarding Z products, I can't afford the 2 K right now, and I do think it is a bit high priced, certainly "pre-pub" is not a "good deal" in relation to the regular or even Logos "sale" price. That is a departure from what we usually encounter on Logos pre-pubs. So that is a bit of a let down already. Add to that the fact that several of us have Z in hardcopy and in Pradis, and the fact that Z's customer service and software pricing decisions in the past have not created a lot of good will and added to that that we might (but as you correctly point out, "might" is not a guarantee) get any Z product at a better price than a pre-pub, we are left with mixed emotions about Z, and we also have less incentive to jump on a Z product.

And if they DON'T reduce their Logos compatible products at greatly reduced prices later, then we really have't lost that much by waiting. You may not want to wait because you want to use the stuff now AND you have the money, but several of us, even though we want to use the stuff now WILL wait because we own it on Pradis and we want to spend our limited money on desired products that ARE a great deal as a prepub. Now, if Z made their prepub Logos stuff very good deals, I might change my tune and get Z in Logos right away. As it is, it may be years down the road before I do.

Glad Z is on Logos, but not having unlimited resources, if they don't give me a great prepub price, I won't bite. The only "good" deals are some of their older sets (EBC, NIVAC) that i have in mulitple versions already. I might miss that I didn't get those at great Logos prices--they may or may not ever be that cheap again, but they are not necessity buys. Their other products I might perceive as more a necessity (OT Illustrated bacgrounds, NIDOTT) are not "necessity" buys for the fact that there is no price break, and I have similar products by other publishers. I can wait.

But I can't wait on Tyndale prepub, or NT Wright pre-pub, or AY pre pub . . .

Bobby Terhune

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71655#Comment_71655

Zondervan pricing for years was inexpensive for their resources in Pradis before they switched over to Logos. I paid 69.00 for the Old Testament Theology and the same for the New Testamment Theology. Now they want 199.00 & 129.00 for the same thing. I think Zondervan will heavily discount their titles in the market place just like they did before with Pradis. Baker and Nelson have done the same thing as well.

I am glad Logos has finally been able to offer Zondervan titles in their format, but I suspect that the pre-pub deal is not quite a real "deal".

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71479#Comment_71479

A most erroneous presumption on your part!!!

I see from a follow-up posting that you are assuming that Zondervan will not be offering new Software Libraries based on the Logos 4 engine for 2 years. However, the Zondervan web site clearly says that in 2010 “new software titles will become available for use with the Logos Bible Software” and the press release says Zondervan will “license other search engines, including the leader Logos.” This certainly sounds like they will be selling boxed collections as they did in the past and this year!

Unless, Zondervan changes the way that sell their products and no longer allows retailers to discount Zondervan software, we can safely assume the current discounted street price will be roughly the same. Let me lay out for you just how bad things can be for those who have pre-ordered:

Title	Pre-pub	Street Price
Expositor’s Bible Commentary	$129.99	$69.95
New Inter. Dict. Of NT Theo.	$129.99	$64.95
New Inter. Dict. Of OT Theo.	$149.99	$69.95
NIV Appl. Comm. Of OT Proph.	$129.99	$69.95
NIV Appl. Comm. Of NT	$249.99	$139.95
Zond. Encyl. Of the Bible	$279.99	$69.95
Zond. Illustr. Bible Backgr. NT	$159.99	$69.95
Total:	$1229.93	$554.65

Let’s say a person wants “How to Read the Bible Book by Book” and “Halley’s Handbook”, they purchase the new Zondervan Basic Library for $16.95, rather than paying 37.98.

Say they also want, “How to Read the Bible for All Its Worth”, “Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties”, “Encyclopedia of Bible Characters”, “Encyclopedia of Bible Words”, “New Inter. Bible Dictionary” and “New Inter. Bible Commentary”, rather than paying $151.94 for all these book via Pre-pub, they purchase the New “Understanding the Bible Library” for $44.95.

Plus they will probably get a number of other good books in this library. It is not uncommon for Logos to not have on the pre-pub page all the books they are working on for a publishing partner.

So let’s see where we are at. Those who wait spend $616.55, those who pre-pub spend $1419.85.

Again, the worst case scenario for those who wait is that Zondervan changes the way that sell their products and no longer allows retailers to discount Zondervan software. What have they lost? Nothing! They can go to the Logos web site and purchase all these resources, download them that very day and not spend a penny more than those who pre-ordered. They can’t lose; but those who pre-order will potentially spend hundreds of dollars more than they have to. Perhaps you will not complain, but I am sure someone will and that is why this whole scenario does not make sense to me.

BillS

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71714#Comment_71714

Title Pre-pub Street price

Expositor’s Bible Commentary $129.99 $69.95

<sigh> Still too close to original price I paid for Pradis-ware... I bought the book... unless upgrade is even less, I'll stick to Pradis until it's non-functional (Win8?).

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71714#Comment_71714

Again, the worst case scenario for those who wait is that Zondervan changes the way that sell their products and no longer allows retailers to discount Zondervan software. What have they lost? Nothing! They can go to the Logos web site and purchase all these resources, download them that very day and not spend a penny more than those who pre-ordered. They can’t lose; but those who pre-order will potentially spend hundreds of dollars more than they have to. Perhaps you will not complain, but I am sure someone will and that is why this whole scenario does not make sense to me.

P. Keith, your scenario makes sense to me. And thanks for putting the other side of the argument.

Ted

Edit: When one factors, that some do have all things Pradis like me and i also have most of these titles in my paper library, i hope the worst case scenario does not occur.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71714#Comment_71714

A most erroneous presumption on your part!!!

I see from a follow-up posting that you are assuming that Zondervan will not be offering new Software Libraries based on the Logos 4 engine for 2 years. However, the Zondervan web site clearly says that in 2010 “new software titles will become available for use with the Logos Bible Software” and the press release says Zondervan will “license other search engines, including the leader Logos.” This certainly sounds like they will be selling boxed collections as they did in the past and this year!

Unless, Zondervan changes the way that sell their products and no longer allows retailers to discount Zondervan software, we can safely assume the current discounted street price will be roughly the same. Let me lay out for you just how bad things can be for those who have pre-ordered:

Title

Pre-pub

Street Price

Expositor’s Bible Commentary

$129.99

$69.95

New Inter. Dict. Of NT Theo.

$129.99

$64.95

New Inter. Dict. Of OT Theo.

$149.99

$69.95

NIV Appl. Comm. Of OT Proph.

$129.99

$69.95

NIV Appl. Comm. Of NT

$249.99

$139.95

Zond. Encyl. Of the Bible

$279.99

$69.95

Zond. Illustr. Bible Backgr. NT

$159.99

$69.95

Total:

$1229.93

$554.65

Let’s say a person wants “How to Read the Bible Book by Book” and “Halley’s Handbook”, they purchase the new Zondervan Basic Library for $16.95, rather than paying 37.98.

Say they also want, “How to Read the Bible for All Its Worth”, “Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties”, “Encyclopedia of Bible Characters”, “Encyclopedia of Bible Words”, “New Inter. Bible Dictionary” and “New Inter. Bible Commentary”, rather than paying $151.94 for all these book via Pre-pub, they purchase the New “Understanding the Bible Library” for $44.95.

Plus they will probably get a number of other good books in this library. It is not uncommon for Logos to not have on the pre-pub page all the books they are working on for a publishing partner.

So let’s see where we are at. Those who wait spend $616.55, those who pre-pub spend $1419.85.

Again, the worst case scenario for those who wait is that Zondervan changes the way that sell their products and no longer allows retailers to discount Zondervan software. What have they lost? Nothing! They can go to the Logos web site and purchase all these resources, download them that very day and not spend a penny more than those who pre-ordered. They can’t lose; but those who pre-order will potentially spend hundreds of dollars more than they have to. Perhaps you will not complain, but I am sure someone will and that is why this whole scenario does not make sense to me.

Thank you very much, Kieth for further clarification of your position. When I became active in this thread, I did not understand Zondervan history of allowing their software to be sold by retailers at "street prices." I was thinking of prices falling over a period of time. If I'm understanding you correctly, a retailer could be selling Logos Zondervan at street prices on the very day that it is released. If that's the case, you are right - I would definitely be upset with myself!!! [:D]

12 or 13 years ago, I bought my first Logos package (I think it was 2.0 "Level 2") at a Christian Bookstore for the retail price of $500. I was pretty upset at myself two days later when I discovered that I could have bought the same package for $150 less at Rejoice Christian Software!!!

Thanks again for taking the time to explain your position. Under the scenario as I understand it now, it is wise to wait and see!!!

______

PS: After reading the post below, I want to add that if those street prices aren't for Logos 4 then they are not worth it to me - I would pay retail. But I will definitely wait and see what happens with a couple of big ticket items I "had" on prepub....

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71725#Comment_71725

Now, P. Keith Larson, I have already stated that there is really only one item that I will buy at this current price and that I will pass on the rest because they cost too much!

But the one resource that I will buy as soon as I can, has come up several times, and it is the Expositor's Bible Commentary.

I had this in paper and gave it away, I used it between 3-7 times a week when I had it and it was a real blessing to me.

You list current street price at 69.95 and retail at 129.95. This is not based on facts! Where can I go buy a Logos 4 based Expositor's Bible Commentary for 69,95??? It is true I can buy a much cheaper electronix version for 69.95, but I would gladly pay more than that to have a product that I know will be useful to me 3 or more times a week, in Logos, which I believe is the best system for bible study. If I am wrong let me know where I can pick this resource up for Logos 4 for only 69.95! I will do it, if not then we are comparing apples and some other fruit.

In this one case I know how useful the resource is, I also look around and see what other Bible Commentary Set is there, that will cover the whole bible for 130.00. If you can find another one out there in Logos, how does it stake up against this one is it as conservative, and as solid as this one, is it as indepth, is it the about the same size as EBC???

In my mind there is one other commentary set that stakes up well against this one, and by that I mean it is about as indepth, conservative and about the same length, and that set is the Tyndale Commentary. Now remember I have used both of these sets in paper additions and I know how I feel about both of them. So how much is the Tyndale set?

The Tyndale set will be out in about a week here at Logos for either 169.00 or 179.00, I forget which it is because I already got it coming from another place for 150,00 and I consider that a good deal on a set that I will use often.

So now if I compare that 150.00 to the price of the Zondervan EBC at 130,00 which is the lowest price that I can count on getting a Logos based copy of EBC, I come to the conclusion that the EBC is a good deal for me at 130.00 even if it comes down in price later!

Actually I doubt if it will come down to 50% off, they seldom did that with their other electronix books until after they decided to discontinue them, but even if they did come down 50% off in 2-3 three months, I would still be happy knowing I had used this resource for those 2-3 months! And the other side of the story is that Zondervan may never come down to 50% off and then I will feel even better because these books are worth knowing I have them for only 130.00 in the Logos system.

So is the current asking a price of 130.00 a good deal to me compared to 150.00 for the Tyndale set, the answer to me is that both are great buys at their asking price, both are very basic simple commentaries that I will use often before looking into more indepth commentaries, they are also both commentaries that I will point alot of my fellow believers to, as being solid basic commentaries! And that is why my Tyndale is on the way and if the EBC came out today, I would buy it today!

Now if you know of another set of commentaries that will fill the same niche as the EBC in the Logos software, for less than 130.00 dollars let me know! It must be about the same size as this set, conservative, easy to understand, and it must cover both the Old and New Testament.

If any of you have any good ideas let me know.

In Christ,

Jim

Terry Poperszky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71788#Comment_71788

But the one resource that I will buy as soon as I can, has come up several times, and it is the Expositor's Bible Commentary.

I had this in paper and gave it away, I used it between 3-7 times a week when I had it and it was a real blessing to me.

Jim, I just found this in pre-pub and signed up for it as well. It has been one of my favorite commentaries over the years.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71788#Comment_71788

You list current street price at 69.95 and retail at 129.95. This is not based on facts! Where can I go buy a Logos 4 based Expositor's Bible Commentary for 69,95??? It is true I can buy a much cheaper electronix version for 69.95, but I would gladly pay more than that to have a product that I know will be useful to me 3 or more times a week, in Logos, which I believe is the best system for bible study. If I am wrong let me know where I can pick this resource up for Logos 4 for only 69.95! I will do it, if not then we are comparing apples and some other fruit.

You are correct that this is the street price of the current Pradis version, but my guess that the street price of the Logos version will be very close to this. The ECB is on my must buy list as well. But tell me Jim, want have you gained by placing a pre-order at $129? The day it comes out I can purchase it and download it for the very same price, what I gain by waiting just a little bit is potentally saving a lot of cash. Zondervan may totally change their policies with retailers and we will all have to pay full price, but isn't the purdent thing to do is wait and see? If Zondervan allowed Logos to pre-pub these works at the normal pre-pub discounts it might not be worth the risk to see what will happen, but as it is now I have nothing to lose and everything to gain by waiting.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71764#Comment_71764

I did not understand Zondervan history

Another piece of evidence that we will see heavy discounting is the street price of Zondervan's Accordance software libraries. Although the Pradis libraries have been heavily discounted for years, some could make the argument that low prices I was quoting were because Pradis is a discontinued product, but the heavy discounting of the Accordance libraries contradicts this.

Alex Scott

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71845#Comment_71845

There may be a couple of reasons for the high prices of the Z products. First of all, many of us who have been here for a long time have been pressuring Z to have their resources in Logos format, giving the impression at least that there is a large demand for the products. If on the other hand, it turns out that there is NOT that demand, don't be surprised if Z pull out of the agreement, in which case you may get a really good deal - it will cost you $0.00 - for nothing. But then that won't be a problem for many because it is apparent that the money is far more important than the resources to them. I just hope the resources do become available before that happens if it does. The upside for Z in that case is that they will no longer have to listen to us pestering them because the matter will have been settled once and for all.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71861#Comment_71861

If on the other hand, it turns out that there is NOT that demand, don't be surprised if Z pull out of the agreement, in which case you may get a really good deal - it will cost you $0.00 - for nothing. But then that won't be a problem for many because it is apparent that the money is far more important than the resources to them.

This seems highly unlikely. You don't shut down your main distribution channel because customers think your price is too high.

Alex Scott

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71870#Comment_71870

Yeah - tell that to the people who would love to get their hands on The Interpretation Commentaries.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71845#Comment_71845

P. Keith Larson, I am not sure, but did I ever say I was going to order EBC on pre-pub?

If you look back at my posts I don't think I did, I have only said that as soon as the resource hits the streets at 130.00 that I will buy it,

I have not put it on pre-pub and do not plan on putting it on pre-pub. There is no incentive for me to put it on Pre-Pub. But like I said before, if this source was ready to be shipped today, I would buy it for 130.00 today, because of the value I put on it, but I would also check for lower prices to see if some one else offered it for less today, and if they did I would buy it for less, but if I could not buy it today for less I would lay down the 130.00 because it is worth having today for 130.00.

However, I am serious about finding a replacement for it for less money, were you able to think of anything? What is in the less than 130.00 price range to compete with this series that covers OT and NT? Did you think of anything? If not I guess we will just have to disagree on this one, because I am willing to pay the 130.00 for this set!

I actually don't even think the zondervan resources should be listed as pre-pub.

In Christ,

Jim

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71876#Comment_71876

Yeah - tell that to the people who would love to get their hands on The Interpretation Commentaries.

Maybe, but there's a big difference between WJK and Zondervan. Zondervan has been marketing it's stuff electronically for years (to a popular market, unlike WJK) and only stopped doing it in-house when they switched to Logos.

SteveF

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71892#Comment_71892

tell that to the people who would love to get their hands on The Interpretation Commentaries

The same thing happened to Barclay's Daily Bible Study Series - before I realized it was available under one of the earlier Schlars packages, it had been yanked out of Logos - I then bought the Scholars back then and it was no longer available. So yes, it happens (hopefuly rarely) but when it does and it is your "favorite" that is no longer available, it is a "sad" day. [And yes, I found an "inferior" version from one of the "free" platforms, but that is really NOT the issue, here.]

And no, I'm also not pre-pub'ing these Zondervan "deals" either until I find our what the "real" street price is (or what "break" they "might" give me for my, formerly, non logos, Pradis items).. If I have to pay these prices now for pre-pub I might as well wait and get them on the "pay-by-the-month" plan. The extra $5 service charge pales in "pain" compared to the present advertised prices.

Regards

Steve

J. Morris

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71880#Comment_71880

I actually don't even think the zondervan resources should be listed as pre-pub.

[Y]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71907#Comment_71907

is it just me, or does it sound like things are getting a little testy over something few of us can control, but over which we can disagree--and in the end, not matter much one way or the other? maybe i am overreading the inflections on some of these posts--which seem to have at times a tad bit of condescension or sarcasm.

I sure hope I am reading into these more than is there.

We can argue about pricing desires, but I would agree the EBC series is overall pretty fair in price as it stands, as a pre-pub/"sale price". And it is better than Tyndale in comparison. But it is one of only a few Z resources showing that good a deal. The others are practically MSRP and way higher, same prepub as msrp. Those are bad 'deals." and for comparison, tyndale msrp is about half the cost of EBC msrp, whatever that means. About the same pages in content. and probably about as good--if not better, across the board book for book/author for author.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71880#Comment_71880

P. Keith Larson

You can just call me Keith. [:)]

but did I ever say I was going to order EBC on pre-pub?

If you look back at my posts I don't think I did, I have only said that as soon as the resource hits the streets at 130.00 that I will buy it,

I am sure you didn't and I did not read your posts closely enough. Sorry if there was any offense.

However, I am serious about finding a replacement for it for less money, were you able to think of anything? What is in the less than 130.00 price range to compete with this series that covers OT and NT? Did you think of anything? If not I guess we will just have to disagree on this one, because I am willing to pay the 130.00 for this set!

I can't think of any either. I never said $130 was too much, but if I can pay less, why not!!

I actually don't even think the zondervan resources should be listed as pre-pub.

I agree. By using the pre-pub page as a pre-order page is potentially very confusing. It concerns me that some people actually think they are getting a deal on these items when in fact they are paying the highest possible retail price.

It seems that all the publishing partners have placed Logos in this uncomfortable position. I cannot recall one example of a third party product that did not sell for more on the Logos pre-pub page that I have not been able to purchase "on the street". Zondervan just happens to be the worst example. At least IVP, Baker and Nelson let Logos offer some discount.

This is not Logos' fault. Zondervan sales the EBC to Exceedingly Happy Christian Software for $65 and Exceedingly Happy sells it for $70, but Zondervan tells Logos they must sell the EBC for full retail. There is no way that Logos or even brick and mortar bookstores can compete against the Internet discounters.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71933#Comment_71933

Dan, I can only speak for myself, and all I am doing is pointing out the same thing that you just mentioned.

Overall I believe Zondervan's pricing is out of line and it is going to cause them some hard feelings, but on the other hand in my case the EBC is a good buy even at their high price and I am willing to buy it at that price because I can't see anything else that fills that spot for any less.

Zondervan must know that EBC is one of their few good deals, and hopefully if enough of us buy their good deals and leave their outrageous priced stuff alone, they will get a message and respond with better values in the future.

In my mind disagreement on this issue is not important, and it doesn't bother me if we disagree, but I was answering a post by another person that could not understand why anyone would have any reason to buy any of the Zondervan products at these prices, I was giving him my reasons.

In Christ,

Jim

John Bowling

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71861#Comment_71861

First of all, many of us who have been here for a long time have been pressuring Z to have their resources in Logos format, giving the impression at least that there is a large demand for the products.

First of all, maybe they should have done better research into the matter if they were misled. If I think there will be a ginormous demand for q-tips and invest all my money in their stock and that turns out to be false, then is everyone else to blame for not wanting more q-tips or am I just a bad investor (or maybe I just made a mistake)? Obviously the consumers aren't to blame for not supplying the demand.

Secondly, did people here suggest that they would pay a certain amount for the product? If not, then Zondervan isn't justified in presuming that customers will be happy with any ol' price sticker they slap on their product.

If on the other hand, it turns out that there is NOT that demand, don't be surprised if Z pull out of the agreement, in which case you may get a really good deal - it will cost you $0.00 - for nothing.

Fine, that would only prove Zondervan made a mistake or a misjudgment. They thought there would be a market for a product at such and such a price but it turns out they were wrong.

But then that won't be a problem for many because it is apparent that the money is far more important than the resources to them.

Exactly, that's how any free transaction occurs. I give something I value less for something I value more and the person I'm trading with is doing the exact same thing. So if you haven't bought the AYBD yet that means you value your money more than that product (or some other item that an equivalent amount of money can be used for). Same goes for Zondervan. If people aren't buying the product "Z" is producing that simply means the people value the money (or the other items they could be acquiring with the money) more than Zondervan's product. If anyone is to "blame," it's Zondervan, the producer, not us, the consumer. (However, I don't mean to imply it's a moral failing, just a business failing.)

The upside for Z in that case is that they will no longer have to listen to us pestering them because the matter will have been settled once and for all.

I hope the business persons of Zondervan are smart enough to not see market feedback as "pestering"... otherwise they should have picked a different career.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71948#Comment_71948

Dan, I can only speak for myself, and all I am doing is pointing out the same thing that you just mentioned.

Overall I believe Zondervan's pricing is out of line and it is going to cause them some hard feelings, but on the other hand in my case the EBC is a good buy even at their high price and I am willing to buy it at that price because I can't see anything else that fills that spot for any less.

Zondervan must know that EBC is one of their few good deals, and hopefully if enough of us buy their good deals and leave their outrageous priced stuff alone, they will get a message and respond with better values in the future.

In my mind disagreement on this issue is not important, and it doesn't bother me if we disagree, but I was answering a post by another person that could not understand why anyone would have any reason to buy any of the Zondervan products at these prices, I was giving him my reasons.

In Christ,

Jim

fair enough! [:)]