[request] Please consider returning the box and line layouts to "Hebrew Cantillations Interactive"

Folks -

The Hebrew Cantillations Interactive has new features, however the box and layout views are no longer available.

In other words, the update appears to provide less information.

Let me explain.

The box view had provided the "functional" relationship (vertical) between the accents, and the layout view provide the "linear" relationship (horizontal) between the accents. I recently provided an analysis of some Hebrew verses based on the interrelationship between the "functional" and "linear" relationships. Please click this hyperlink to review this analysis.

http://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/a/15640/921

Please see the image (link, below) which I had developed, and please note the circular approach (using literal loops and circles) and my own version of the box concept to try to explain Gen 2:12 - please note the use of red and blue to draw comparisons between both images.

http://i.stack.imgur.com/m20j8.png

Could you provide this kind of analysis as well (using loops and circles)?

Again, thank you for reviewing this request to returning the box and layout options for Hebrew Cantillation, and please know that these kinds of tools which you develop are worth their weight in gold!

Very Respectfully,

Joseph

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Comments

Kenneth Neighoff

[:)]

Russ Hawkins

Thanks!

We very much appreciate the feedback, and will take your request into consideration.

Best,

Russ

MJ. Smith

I've added your links to https://topics.logos.com/Logos$2fVerbum_dataset_and_visualization_information

Thank you.

Sarel Slabbert

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/701319#Comment_701319

Hi Joseph,

I need some help with using the Hebrew Cantillations. I heard that these cantillations can be used for determining a structure of a text. I started looking into this, but there is not a lot of information available. Could you please guide me a bit as it appears you know a lot more about them than I do. Could you tell me how you use them, and if you know anything about using them to determine structure?

Thanks

Joseph Lukowski

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/717220#Comment_717220

Sarel -

The system of cantillations is very simple to understand. (What is complicated is understanding how the Masoretes assigned what accents to what Hebrew words.) In essence, the cantillations provide a hierarchical cascade of thoughts between the words within the verse. Please click on the following hyperlinks to see what I mean - these examples should provide you the general idea. That is, the following three examples show you how I used various tools of my Logos 6 software (to include the Hebrew Cantillations) -

http://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/a/15358/921

http://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/a/14071/921

http://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/a/17205/921

The Logos 6 software helped me to figure out how the Hebrew cantillations worked -- that is, in my Logos software, I had to read, and then re-read, Two Treatises On The Accentuation Of The Old Testament by William Wickes in addition to studying the Cantillations Tools before I was able to understand. Once I got the hang of it, it started to make sense - my only question to myself was why something so simple (and valuable to understand) was not taught more often? Essentially, the cantillation marks force us to see how the words and phrases interrelate within the same verse, and therefore "force" us to read particular meanings. They thus comprise the implicit commentary of the Masoretes on how the words and thoughts of the Hebrew text had interrelated to one another, and in that respect, the Masoretes convey to us today through the cantillation marks their understanding of what the Hebrew text means (and says).

Here is a diagram that I created that might help make things easier to understand. Please note the "cascading effect" of the phrases. That is, please note how the division of the "verse" helps to understand how subsequent phrases bear on the preceding phrases.

Please click on the image to enlarge.

Imagine the meaning of this "verse" had I put the Atnach accent after the word "car" - in this respect I would have "forced" you (the reader) to see that the car was the cause of my aggravation, because the remaining phrases in the verse point their fingers at the car. In the example above, however, you can see that the aggravation stemmed from the car not working (and so I had no grievance with the car itself) - it was just that the car did not start, and as result, I did not make it to work yesterday. Thus the car is not to blame - it was just a bad day.

Do you see how these very slight nuances in the cantillation marks can alter an understanding of the verse in Hebrew?

Finally, the books of Psalms, Proverbs, and Job have their own "type" of cantillations because these three books were sung aloud to music, and therefore, while the cantillation marks still provide the same intertextual divisions on how to understand the words in each verse, the particular cantillation marks also have the additional role as musical notations as well.

Please send more questions!!!!

Very Respectfully,

Joseph

Sarel Slabbert

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/718377#Comment_718377

Sarel -

The system of cantillations is very simple to understand. (What is complicated is understanding how the Masoretes assigned what accents to what Hebrew words.) In essence, the cantillations provide a hierarchical cascade of thoughts between the words within the verse. Please click on the following hyperlinks to see what I mean - these examples should provide you the general idea. That is, the following three examples show you how I used various tools of my Logos 6 software (to include the Hebrew Cantillations) -

http://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/a/15358/921

http://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/a/14071/921

http://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/a/17205/921

The Logos 6 software helped me to figure out how the Hebrew cantillations worked -- that is, in my Logos software, I had to read, and then re-read, Two Treatises On The Accentuation Of The Old Testament by William Wickes in addition to studying the Cantillations Tools before I was able to understand. Once I got the hang of it, it started to make sense - my only question to myself was why something so simple (and valuable to understand) was not taught more often? Essentially, the cantillation marks force us to see how the words and phrases interrelate within the same verse, and therefore "force" us to read particular meanings. They thus comprise the implicit commentary of the Masoretes on how the words and thoughts of the Hebrew text had interrelated to one another, and in that respect, the Masoretes convey to us today through the cantillation marks their understanding of what the Hebrew text means (and says).

Here is a diagram that I created that might help make things easier to understand. Please note the "cascading effect" of the phrases. That is, please note how the division of the "verse" helps to understand how subsequent phrases bear on the preceding phrases.

Please click on the image to enlarge.

Imagine the meaning of this "verse" had I put the Atnach accent after the word "car" - in this respect I would have "forced" you (the reader) to see that the car was the cause of my aggravation, because the remaining phrases in the verse point their fingers at the car. In the example above, however, you can see that the aggravation stemmed from the car not working (and so I had no grievance with the car itself) - it was just that the car did not start, and as result, I did not make it to work yesterday. Thus the car is not to blame - it was just a bad day.

Do you see how these very slight nuances in the cantillation marks can alter an understanding of the verse in Hebrew?

Finally, the books of Psalms, Proverbs, and Job have their own "type" of cantillations because these three books were sung aloud to music, and therefore, while the cantillation marks still provide the same intertextual divisions on how to understand the words in each verse, the particular cantillation marks also have the additional role as musical notations as well.

Please send more questions!!!!

Very Respectfully,

Joseph

Thanks Joseph. This is great. I already own Two Treatises On The Accentuation Of The Old Testament by William Wickes (I never knew about this). I will start looking at that. I am currently studying certain Psalms and these cantillations appear to be interesting. I will look at this further. Thanks

Sarel Slabbert

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/718427#Comment_718427

I learned that the Cantillation Marks are not used consistently throughout the Hebrew Bible. Three books (Psalms, Proverbs, Job) use a system that differs on certain points from the other 21 books. Interesting.

I am becoming more intrigued by this system. I learned a bit about these studying Hebrew during my Seminary years (but that was in 1993-1995). Forgot a lot of that in the passing years :-D